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#4029710 - 10/31/14 02:42 AM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: Wolf_Rider]  
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Originally Posted By: Wolf_Rider
regardless of actually being paid or not... there are certainly some company sock puppets present


Says the guy that joined SimHQ this month. LoL

#4029728 - 10/31/14 03:29 AM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: piper]  
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MiG21bisFishbedL Offline
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Originally Posted By: piper
Originally Posted By: Wolf_Rider
regardless of actually being paid or not... there are certainly some company sock puppets present


Says the guy that joined SimHQ this month. LoL


Lol, not a bad point.

-Jaso-OH CRAP I BEEN FOUND OUT.


wut meens b?
#4029736 - 10/31/14 03:42 AM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: Speyer]  
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Originally Posted By: Speyer
Well now that its out in the open that people are getting paid to defend the game on forums its hard to take anything seriously any more.


If you don't have proof, don't post crap like this. While I am really not happy with BOS and have been trying to be civilly disobedient to let them know I am not happy, this kind of rumor, non provable stuff, is wrong. I don't care who the company is, they don't deserve to be lied about. It only discredits anything you post here.

S!Blade<><

Edit: AbortedMan is this you on ATAG Forum? http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/member.php?u=7041
If it is, please explain the total change of heart from defending the ME for BOS and its capability to now some very subtle suggestions of underhanded happenings? This a serious question with no attitude attached. Even a PM answer would be good?

Last edited by Blade_Meister; 10/31/14 04:00 AM.
#4029740 - 10/31/14 04:11 AM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: piper]  
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Wolf_Rider Offline
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Originally Posted By: piper


Says the guy that joined SimHQ this month. LoL



I'm hoping that isn't the best you've got reading

Last edited by Wolf_Rider; 10/31/14 04:13 AM.

“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised.”

Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
#4029748 - 10/31/14 05:27 AM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: LukeFF]  
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....Edited suspected insulting quotes....


Turns out that the Steam app for Android saves Steam chat conversations. I'm not posting this to be malicious or evil, you obviously don't believe me and I'm being called a liar in other places. Just want people to know what is going on because they deserve the truth. I am not crazy or lying, nor am I making this up. I want BoS to succeed just as much as the next guy, but I do not want scrupulous practices and people to rule this world, and where I can point it out and discourage/punish/stop them from perpetuating their sick practices, I will. People are being deceived by Jason and this sort of stuff. Someone being paid to pose as a customer and actively convince detractors to change their opinion for reasons of manipulating public view of the product is immoral. If these people were overtly acting in the name of 777/1C, then that's fine, but they're not. People are blatantly being lied to.

This is a conversation with one of the guys. He's, other than this stuff a nice guy, so I really don't want to out him...so I've edited the name. My replies are in blue boxes. I'm not sure what else you want for proof.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/PaidConvo1.jpg

Last edited by Murphy; 10/31/14 06:22 AM.
#4029750 - 10/31/14 05:41 AM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: Blade_Meister]  
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Originally Posted By: Blade_Meister
Originally Posted By: Speyer
Well now that its out in the open that people are getting paid to defend the game on forums its hard to take anything seriously any more.


If you don't have proof, don't post crap like this. While I am really not happy with BOS and have been trying to be civilly disobedient to let them know I am not happy, this kind of rumor, non provable stuff, is wrong. I don't care who the company is, they don't deserve to be lied about. It only discredits anything you post here.

S!Blade<><

Edit: AbortedMan is this you on ATAG Forum? http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/member.php?u=7041
If it is, please explain the total change of heart from defending the ME for BOS and its capability to now some very subtle suggestions of underhanded happenings? This a serious question with no attitude attached. Even a PM answer would be good?

I wasn't defending the ME, per se, but just clearing up some misconceptions that were being passed as truth. I enjoy the core aspects of the game and wish to see it succeed, though I wholly disagree with how Jason and this company is handling the other very important aspects of the product that we've paid for...specifically customer relation and what is/was expected of the product.

#4029790 - 10/31/14 10:56 AM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: AbortedMan]  
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MiG21bisFishbedL Offline
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Originally Posted By: AbortedMan

....Edited suspected insulting quotes....


Turns out that the Steam app for Android saves Steam chat conversations. I'm not posting this to be malicious or evil, you obviously don't believe me and I'm being called a liar in other places. Just want people to know what is going on because they deserve the truth. I am not crazy or lying, nor am I making this up. I want BoS to succeed just as much as the next guy, but I do not want scrupulous practices and people to rule this world, and where I can point it out and discourage/punish/stop them from perpetuating their sick practices, I will. People are being deceived by Jason and this sort of stuff. Someone being paid to pose as a customer and actively convince detractors to change their opinion for reasons of manipulating public view of the product is immoral. If these people were overtly acting in the name of 777/1C, then that's fine, but they're not. People are blatantly being lied to.

This is a conversation with one of the guys. He's, other than this stuff a nice guy, so I really don't want to out him...so I've edited the name. My replies are in blue boxes. I'm not sure what else you want for proof.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/PaidConvo1.jpg


It's a troubling prospect. While it doesn't provide proof without a shadow of a doubt, it's certainly not an outlandish suggestion; it wouldn't be the first time a company did something like this.


wut meens b?
#4029799 - 10/31/14 11:46 AM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: MiG21bisFishbedL]  
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Originally Posted By: MiG21bisFishbedL


It's a troubling prospect. While it doesn't provide proof without a shadow of a doubt, it's certainly not an outlandish suggestion; it wouldn't be the first time a company did something like this.


I recall the subject coming out a few years ago as a 'big internet expose', that game companies were paying shills to post around and talk-up the product. So no, 1C/777 are doing nothing unusual. I guess we just hoped for more integrity from 'our guys'. Erm...or hoped the game would be good enough that it wouldn't require such shenanigans.


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#4029837 - 10/31/14 12:41 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: lokitexas]  
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Here is my take on this.. say hypothetically this were true.. and what I have seen thus far is not definitive proof it is circumstantial and basically it is hearsay unless this guy can come up with evidence of a financial transaction.. but anyway say this is true..

1-That does not change the fact that BoS at it's core is a good product. It isn't like people are being paid to lie. BoS is not perfect. It has many flaws but at it's core it is a very good product and it has great potential. A questionable endeavor? Absolutely .... but IMO it must be juxtaposed against the realities of the product. This is not situational ethics as some surely will say.. and again I am not condoning the practice

2-Given the vehement opposition to BoS and some of the issues that Jason has had even before BoS was announced, since the RoF days with certain community members... I for one am highly suspect of any such allegations without proof.. regardless to the source. Especially with certain community members in particular leading the charge, beating the drum and fanning the flames of this (for the record not talking about you AM). Not only that, given the above stated facts how does one determine which positive posts are from people who genuimely like the product, even admitting it had flaws.. and thre paid shills. You can;t and throwing out all the good reviews because some might be tainted is ridiculous.

3-I am totally blown away by the level and the vehement nature of much of this.. because from where I sit.. the unlocks and the graphics presets are the biggest flaws in BoS. Some of the other issues like the lack of a ME for the moment and no skin templates and even the way some of the controls are rendered.. none of these things are show stoppers and none of these things would make me want to discredit the development team or make it more likely that people would not support a product that at it's core is as sound as BoS is and that I paid $90 for in the hopes of seeing it eventually expand to other theaters with additional content.. rendering those hopes less likely.

True or not the bottom line in this is that you just cannot make accusations like this without backing it up. It reminds me of the cop shows.. where the cops know or at least highly suspect that the guy is guilty .. but they can't bring it to court without proof. In this case the accusation should never even have been made unless it could be backed up. Personally I don't see why it would even be necessary which is one of the biggest reasons I have my doubts. BoS can stand on it's own merits. Warts and all. It doesn't need paid cheerleaders.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4029861 - 10/31/14 01:22 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: lokitexas]  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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Hold up a second....

One can get a job posting stuff on forums for companies, and the amounts are decent enough to matter? Sheesh, what's the process for getting one of those jobs, and why haven't I been doing that? I would definitely defend Hello Kitty Adventure Island as a viable alternative for WoW if the cash was right.

On Steam Forums - they're either unmoderated viper pits that makes 4chan blush or tightly controlled company sites. Either way one can't get an accurate view of what a game or sim is actually like from them.

I'm distrustful of scores when it comes to simulations, especially polling ones. Casual gamers will always give serious flight sims bad reviews, as they aren't "fun" in the way they're used to, and the simulation community is hysterical most of the time ("Throttle handle has five grooves modeled on it when everyone knows it had six! I give it a BIG FAIL AND A ZERO.").

I'm into BoS for a hundred bucks. Was it worth it? Yeah, I've had some fun with it. Is it perfect? Naw. But then again I'm a nutter who likes RoF.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#4029867 - 10/31/14 01:28 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: lokitexas]  
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I'm sayin ......

So Dart ... can we look forward to some of those videos of yours in BoS.... wink


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4029870 - 10/31/14 01:40 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: AbortedMan]  
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lokitexas Offline
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Originally Posted By: AbortedMan

....Edited suspected insulting quotes....


Turns out that the Steam app for Android saves Steam chat conversations. I'm not posting this to be malicious or evil, you obviously don't believe me and I'm being called a liar in other places. Just want people to know what is going on because they deserve the truth. I am not crazy or lying, nor am I making this up. I want BoS to succeed just as much as the next guy, but I do not want scrupulous practices and people to rule this world, and where I can point it out and discourage/punish/stop them from perpetuating their sick practices, I will. People are being deceived by Jason and this sort of stuff. Someone being paid to pose as a customer and actively convince detractors to change their opinion for reasons of manipulating public view of the product is immoral. If these people were overtly acting in the name of 777/1C, then that's fine, but they're not. People are blatantly being lied to.

This is a conversation with one of the guys. He's, other than this stuff a nice guy, so I really don't want to out him...so I've edited the name. My replies are in blue boxes. I'm not sure what else you want for proof.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/PaidConvo1.jpg


I think I know who that is. I would of course not make accusations, but if you have spent any time reading the Steam forums, its a damn good guess.

Sadly, this whole thing not only makes 777 look like fools, but also shows their lack of confidence in their product. Even people that like the core game could be turned off just because of shady acts go on like that. Bad move all around.

#4029872 - 10/31/14 01:42 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: lokitexas]  
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And I'm done here. Until this particular forum gets some better moderation, it's just gonna remain a sewer. If so many of you want to engage in your conspiracy theories and attack the product & company endlessly, have at it. I'm not going to be a part of it .

#4029873 - 10/31/14 01:44 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: LukeFF]  
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Originally Posted By: LukeFF
And I'm done here. Until this particular forum gets some better moderation, it's just gonna remain a sewer. If so many of you want to engage in your conspiracy theories and attack the product & company endlessly, have at it. I'm not going to be a part of it .


You shouldn't be surprised to some degree, though. Outright blaming the consumer and accusing them of "killing the genre" is not going to endear your company at all. Couple that with their unwillingness to budge from what is out-right poor game design and you have a recipe for disaster.

Last edited by MiG21bisFishbedL; 10/31/14 01:45 PM.

wut meens b?
#4029882 - 10/31/14 02:04 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: LukeFF]  
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Originally Posted By: LukeFF
And I'm done here. Until this particular forum gets some better moderation, it's just gonna remain a sewer. If so many of you want to engage in your conspiracy theories and attack the product & company endlessly, have at it. I'm not going to be a part of it .


You shill you! (just kidding btw) Take care.

One thing I will admit even though I dont think I got my 90 bucks worth in the game I am almost getting that much entertainment value watching all the drama unfold.

Bos - WWII Flight Sim'ish / Online Drama simulator

#4029883 - 10/31/14 02:05 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: LukeFF]  
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Originally Posted By: LukeFF
And I'm done here. Until this particular forum gets some better moderation, it's just gonna remain a sewer. If so many of you want to engage in your conspiracy theories and attack the product & company endlessly, have at it. I'm not going to be a part of it .


You would be much more comfortable at BoS forums man. Heavy moderation, plenty of locked, and of course the deleted threads.

If you want a positive, rosey, all is great, best WWII sim ever, biased view of BoS thats your place.

I prefer a place that is more honest.

#4029898 - 10/31/14 02:24 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: lokitexas]  
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I don't fly the game, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night wink

This forum is very entertaining

#4029924 - 10/31/14 03:05 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: LukeFF]  
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Originally Posted By: LukeFF
And I'm done here. Until this particular forum gets some better moderation...


You mean lock/delete threads and suspend/ban anyone who posts opinions you don't like?


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#4029926 - 10/31/14 03:09 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: MiG21bisFishbedL]  
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Originally Posted By: MiG21bisFishbedL

You shouldn't be surprised to some degree, though. Outright blaming the consumer and accusing them of "killing the genre" is not going to endear your company at all. Couple that with their unwillingness to budge from what is out-right poor game design and you have a recipe for disaster.


This kind of drama does hurt the genre. It isn't a matter of blaming the customer..but this kind of stuff makes any developer have second thoughts before even jumping into a flight sim.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4029933 - 10/31/14 03:18 PM Re: If you dont like BoS you are a troll [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted By: bisher
I don't fly the game, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night wink

This forum is very entertaining


I agree and it's more!

In light of the PAYOLA revelations...this game has provided some real insights on "what not to do" if you want to release a product into a market which regardless of the paucity of choice we currently have (which they consciously strove to exploit).....remembers the past and has expectations for the future.....which as is clear are not being met here.

I thought these guys were just incompetent at first releasing a product at such variance with past release features, with perhaps some well documented Russian stubbornness thrown in to make matters worse....but now with a layer of corruption thrown in on top and Desode's earlier post on 1C vs Gaijin (on biz practices)

And I think a very clear picture emerges that we have not gotten here by accident but this is just "business as usual" for this group.

I'm out a 100 bucks if this thing dies....but I've gotten "real value" skullhead in observing this product release. biggrin


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