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#4016493 - 09/30/14 09:05 PM Has the F-15's flight model been modified?  
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valleyboy Offline
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Hello,
Ive had Flaming Cliffs since the get go - and have been enjoying the F-15's AFM since its release - however in the last patch or two, it seems to have gotten rather twitchy to say the least.

Roll response is almost uncontrollable while manouvering - it tends to snap roll at the slightest hint of trying to turn hard - this change of the flight model was almost confirmed by the fact I set up a 2 v 1 of SU-27 v me in an F-15 and the AI SU-27's got them selves into spins as well - almost the first time I have ever seen the AI get itself into hot water! not only this, the rudder now has a mind of its own - I can be at altitude with a relatively healthy IAS - yet if there is a cross wind my rudder will try to automatically correct - however some times this is causing yaw induced roll - and I have to fly with rudder input while doing 3 - 400 kts- and a large input at that to stop roll.

Has anyone else noticed any quirks with the flight model recently at all? I thought it may have been axis setup - given that every patch seems to break controller setups every time - however this isn't the case - set to what I normally have it - yet still playing up :/


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#4016496 - 09/30/14 09:08 PM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: valleyboy]  
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Yep, the CAS, as well as some FM things have some known issues that are being looked at, including those you mentioned.


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#4028057 - 10/28/14 12:40 AM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: valleyboy]  
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Originally Posted By: valleyboy
Hello,
Ive had Flaming Cliffs since the get go - and have been enjoying the F-15's AFM since its release - however in the last patch or two, it seems to have gotten rather twitchy to say the least.

Roll response is almost uncontrollable while manouvering - it tends to snap roll at the slightest hint of trying to turn hard - this change of the flight model was almost confirmed by the fact I set up a 2 v 1 of SU-27 v me in an F-15 and the AI SU-27's got them selves into spins as well - almost the first time I have ever seen the AI get itself into hot water! not only this, the rudder now has a mind of its own - I can be at altitude with a relatively healthy IAS - yet if there is a cross wind my rudder will try to automatically correct - however some times this is causing yaw induced roll - and I have to fly with rudder input while doing 3 - 400 kts- and a large input at that to stop roll.

Has anyone else noticed any quirks with the flight model recently at all? I thought it may have been axis setup - given that every patch seems to break controller setups every time - however this isn't the case - set to what I normally have it - yet still playing up :/


Is this the F-15 in the Flaming Cliffs 3 module? I'm new to DCS and flightsims. I played a bit of Falcon4:AF but nothing worth mentioning. I bought a used joystick and Flaming Cliffs 3 a few weeks ago and finally got them up and running last weekend. I have only flow the F-15C and the Su-27. The F-15 seems really hard to fly compared to Su-27. I know I am a bad pilot so I am not sure if it is my flying skills (or lack of) or the plane?


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#4028235 - 10/28/14 01:05 PM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: valleyboy]  
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The F-15 has an AFM now, which is supposed to be very close to the real thing (although as GG mentioned it's still a WIP and has some tweaking needed).

The Su-27 still has an old SFM and by comparison flies on rails. Same for the MiG-29s.

The hardest planes to fly (not necessarily fight) in FC3 are the Su-25 and Su-25T which also don't have SFMs anymore, followed by the F-15C and A-10A (which has the FM from the A-10C now).



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#4028401 - 10/28/14 05:19 PM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: valleyboy]  
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Also, the Su-27 will be getting the AFM November 15th so it will be a much more fun aircraft to fly.

#4028404 - 10/28/14 05:31 PM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: enigma6584]  
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Originally Posted By: enigma6584
Also, the Su-27 will be getting the AFM November 15th so it will be a much more fun aircraft to fly.

Yeah. Once AFM is out, it will no longer fly on rails...expect to have a lot of fun when near max aoa

#4028831 - 10/29/14 01:23 PM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: valleyboy]  
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11/15 is a Saturday...they're releasing an update on a Saturday??



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The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4030108 - 10/31/14 11:14 PM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
The F-15 has an AFM now, which is supposed to be very close to the real thing (although as GG mentioned it's still a WIP and has some tweaking needed).

The Su-27 still has an old SFM and by comparison flies on rails. Same for the MiG-29s.

The hardest planes to fly (not necessarily fight) in FC3 are the Su-25 and Su-25T which also don't have SFMs anymore, followed by the F-15C and A-10A (which has the FM from the A-10C now).



The Jedi Master


good to hear the F-15C AFM will get some tweaking. The SU-25 and SU-25T are a joy to fly!
cowboy


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#4030522 - 11/02/14 03:46 AM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: valleyboy]  
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http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4025188/Joystick_/_flight_behaviour_F1#Post4025188

Linking to this previous post was well.

Soo...I'm not crazy (well at least in that regard).

No matter what, I find myself constantly trimming the F-15 and/or fighting the FCS when maneuvering above FL200.

With the AFM the joystick is twitchy as all hell and the rudders love to kick in and make the plane drag its ass.

Also the AI has a hetch of a time trying to maneuver and fly the F-15 in the dogfight. Up against other AI opponents, even opponents that have lower skill levels and older aircraft, the AI F-15s always get waxed.

Last edited by Ironroad; 11/02/14 03:47 AM.
#4041900 - 11/26/14 11:21 PM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: valleyboy]  
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Based on this game alone, the F-15C would have been a death trap if we'd ever gone to war.


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#4041976 - 11/27/14 02:33 AM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: valleyboy]  
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The AI always has issues in one direction or the other.

As for the FM, it's being worked on - there's not enough stability right now. The aircraft flies more stable than it does in the game.

However it does a bunch of stuff right as well: -g's (actually -AoA) are prohibited as they induce extra instability, too much AoA = uncommanded roll that you may or may not be able to deal with using rudder and aileron, etc.


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#4041980 - 11/27/14 02:37 AM Re: Has the F-15's flight model been modified? [Re: Ironroad]  
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Originally Posted By: Ironroad
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4025188/Joystick_/_flight_behaviour_F1#Post4025188

Linking to this previous post was well.

Soo...I'm not crazy (well at least in that regard).


You're not crazy but probably your controller isn't set up quite right either.

Quote:
No matter what, I find myself constantly trimming the F-15 and/or fighting the FCS when maneuvering above FL200.


Unless you go quite high you shouldn't need to trim. I don't know what fighting the FCS means. The PTC will 'wind up' if you turn very hard, very long, or both, so when you roll out you have to correct for this, but the PTC will drive the g back to 1.0. It's just slow, like in the real aircraft.

Quote:
With the AFM the joystick is twitchy as all hell and the rudders love to kick in and make the plane drag its ass.


Try putting in rctl-enter and see how big or small your inputs are. The aircraft is very responsive, and it's absolutely nuts if your CAS is off (deliberate or failed), so check your caution lights.
If the CAS is functioning correctly, then you need to check curves and dead-zones. The CAS will ensure that you always get a certain amount of g and roll for a given amount of stick deflection in game (in real life it's tied to the force of the deflection instead, but it amounts to the same thing in terms of the simulator). So 4g pull at 300kt should be the same as 4g at 700kt.

Last edited by GrayGhost; 11/27/14 02:41 AM.

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