#4026862 - 10/24/14 09:48 PM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Charlie_SB]
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Haggart
I Fought Diablo
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I Fought Diablo
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I kind of doubt the Swedish Navy would drop depth charges even they located a nuclear powered Russian submarine in their waters. Not only might it kill the entire Russian crew on board but what about the nuclear reactor ?
I think a more likely scenario would be that the Swedes would tell the Russians "ok we found you now come up" and then they'd have dinner together on the Russian sub. After that they would shake hands and the Russians and their sub would go off into international waters as the sun was setting. That's how I would like it to end.
"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
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#4026887 - 10/24/14 10:50 PM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Haggart]
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KeyCat
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I kind of doubt the Swedish Navy would drop depth charges even they located a nuclear powered Russian submarine in their waters. Not only might it kill the entire Russian crew on board but what about the nuclear reactor ?
Not always clear but the potential submarine/s we are talking about the past week are not really "conventional" subs. It was much smaller minisubs, most likely used by Spetznatz or similar special forces. I'm 100% sure it wasn't the first time nor the last time they probed us underwater. Past year RUS have flexed it's mil muscle several times (as part of their psychological warfare I belive). In 2013 they performed a excercise attack with two Tupolev Tu 22 (IIRC) bombers (escorted by four Su-27) running in over international air space, one bomber headed in direction of the capital city and the other headed for big navalbase in SE Sweden. They broke off before Swedish air space but to me the message was clear... And just a few weeks ago a RUS Su-27 flew up close - and I mean close - besides a Swedish non armed mil recon plane flying over international water and flashed all missiles toward the crew/cameras (lovely plane btw)... Pic taken from Swedish article here... http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/ryska-jaktplan-allt-mer-nargangna/ /KC
>> It's all about teamwork! <<
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#4026901 - 10/24/14 11:14 PM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Charlie_SB]
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Haggart
I Fought Diablo
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I Fought Diablo
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KeyCat..."Past year RUS have flexed it's mil muscle several times (as part of their psychological warfare I belive)"
lol psychological warfare ...and that lol isn't directed at what you said ..it's directed at Putin ....cause what you say is likely true. Problem is Putin's "psychology" is still mired in the Cold War Era. A part of him will always be a relic of his KGB past and the days of the "Iron Curtain".
When that is taken into account his psychological warfare game becomes more predictable and frankly should be less intimidating
"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
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#4027045 - 10/25/14 11:08 AM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Haggart]
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Charlie_SB
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I kind of doubt the Swedish Navy would drop depth charges even they located a nuclear powered Russian submarine in their waters. Not only might it kill the entire Russian crew on board but what about the nuclear reactor ?
I think a more likely scenario would be that the Swedes would tell the Russians "ok we found you now come up" and then they'd have dinner together on the Russian sub. After that they would shake hands and the Russians and their sub would go off into international waters as the sun was setting. That's how I would like it to end. There are no nuclear powered subs in the baltic sea. The submarines in the baltic are smaller quiet diesel electric subs. A big boomer is certainly not going to be placed in the baltic, there is just no mission for it there. And it's also a little bit like putting a hippo in your bathtub, you will notice it's there. One can only speculate about weapons employment but it has not really been an issue in the past so I doubt it would now. -C-
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#4027047 - 10/25/14 11:15 AM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Haggart]
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KraziKanuK
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KeyCat..."Past year RUS have flexed it's mil muscle several times (as part of their psychological warfare I belive)"
lol psychological warfare ...and that lol isn't directed at what you said ..it's directed at Putin ....cause what you say is likely true. Problem is Putin's "psychology" is still mired in the Cold War Era. A part of him will always be a relic of his KGB past and the days of the "Iron Curtain".
When that is taken into account his psychological warfare game becomes more predictable and frankly should be less intimidating
It is not only Putin that is still mired in a Cold War mentality.
There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB. The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed. There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
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#4027477 - 10/26/14 12:42 PM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Charlie_SB]
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Catfish
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Where the ocean meets the sky
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Hi, posted this in SubSim some time ago, about those intrusions into swedish waters.
The only one sub that was caught red-handed, of russian origin - was the W-137 called "Whiskey" on the rocks" by the press if i remember right, relating to the Nato designation of a russian "Whiskey" type sub, beached within swedish territorial waters.
This time, it may well be a russian sub, but back then all those incidents were most probably UK and US subs, trying to turn the swedish politics towards the west, against Russia, by imitating russian subs, repeatedly breaking swedish territorial waters and by this convinving the swedish government to keep towards the NATO probably becoming a member, and if keeping to neutrality at least have no negotiations with Russia.
And maybe i do not have to remind you, but 1987 swedish New Prime Minister Olof Palme was murdered on the streets of Stockholm. Palme was fed up with the Submarine incidents and was planning to build up good relations with Russia on a nuclear free zone in the Baltic. The Russians were also very interested to improve the relations with neutral Sweden which could then act as buffer to NATO. Understandably, the Swedish/Russian relations had become quite frosty following the W-137 affairs.
But the swedish Navy felt betrayed. Also the NATO and the western allies were not happy. Three days before Palme's visit to Moscow in 1987, you could see six well known faces of high ranking Navy officers on the Front Pages of daily papers with the headline PALME IS A TRAITOR.
A TV reporter interviewed Palme and raised the question:
Have you any thoughts on why the officers in the Navy do not trust the Prime Minister? Palme replied: "I have had some thoughts if I could trust my officers and I came to the conclusion that that I can do so - which does not includes those 6 officers in the newspaper."
Two days later Mr Palme was shot dead - the murderer is still free despite a reward on 50 million SEK.
The Swedish Television recently released a program of Palme and the murder plot. It was aired in 3 parts and was extremely well done. The conclusion was that the murder was set up and organised by a number of ex officers, some of them later serving as police officers in Stockholm. The "police trail" as it was called, was never followed, and Palme's death never clarified.
All smoke and mirrors, as said before the cold war mentality is still there, also within NATO.
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#4027526 - 10/26/14 03:53 PM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Charlie_SB]
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Chris2525
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Correct. Sweden is and always has been a defacto NATO country. http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_52535.htm
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#4027583 - 10/26/14 06:58 PM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Charlie_SB]
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Catfish
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Where the ocean meets the sky
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^ I hoped you can tell me that. There were more than 12 reported (probably more) intrusions into swedish waters, one of it was indeed the W-137/S-363 Whiskey class SSK Diesel sub. The others ? From: The Secret War Against Sweden: US and British Submarine Deception in the 1980s pages 179 ff.:http://books.google.de/books?id=nuiQAgAA...der&f=falseI do not say it could not have been a russian sub this time. I doubt it though, it fits too well in the current prpaganda and tensions, with Ukraine and Putin.
Last edited by Catfish; 10/26/14 07:01 PM.
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#4027830 - 10/27/14 12:44 PM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Charlie_SB]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
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Space Coast, USA
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Some people refuse to believe the truth when it's simple, because they think EVERYTHING must be complex. There's also the back-slapping "I'm so clever I know what many people don't" angle to boost their enthusiasm for them.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4027874 - 10/27/14 02:23 PM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Catfish
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Some people refuse to believe the truth when it's simple, because they think EVERYTHING must be complex. There's also the back-slapping "I'm so clever I know what many people don't" angle to boost their enthusiasm for them... Roger that. B.t.w. i said it still might have been a russian sub. But is also has become an annoying stereotype to make Russia responsible for all hidden operations, regardless by what country. Then, do not believe everything the media tell you. Facts: Mr. Palme was killed, apparently because of some political aspects. There was one russian sub (speaking of evidence) beached, back then in the 80ies. Sub intrusions into swedish waters have a long record, and most have been proved to be US and 'NATO' subs. Some have been sea lions, no joke (but maybe russian ones, ok) NATO does not like politicians of befriended countries, being friends with the russians. If you rule out the most unlikely scenario, connect some dots and then think of who gets the most out of a situation, you are usually not far from what really happened. Ok lets end this here.
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#4027877 - 10/27/14 02:31 PM
Re: Swedish armed forces in subhunt
[Re: Charlie_SB]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
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Space Coast, USA
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The idea that many of them being Russian subs is "the most unlikely scenario" doesn't hold up. It's only unlikely if you've already made your mind up that it's not them.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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