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#4018791 - 10/06/14 04:54 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) ***** [Re: Mdore]  
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Originally Posted By: Mdore
I've been trying a purely optical attack on a parachute target, with the arm after launch switch on. Trying to keep the target in the crosshair on the television monitor.

So far no missiles I've launched have detonated.

Is it just because I'm not getting the missile close enough? Or is it currently impossible to have the missile detonate without a radar lock?


Is it just because you are not getting the missile close enough.
Please note, that target tracking is done by the manual trackers, and that mode is not simulated.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#4018871 - 10/06/14 07:59 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Question about Hpasp!

When I chose the Volkhov and fired at the lowest end I turn on the regime H < 5 all right then on the TV screen I do not see the earth, why this is so, it is true or not.

Angle is very small less than 10 degrees, I was supposed to see the earth from the TV screen or it is not.

And yet one noticed when I turn mode 'Earth' is immediately activated wide beam, in this case the active and narrow beam and highlight too, it is true or error.

#4019174 - 10/07/14 10:53 AM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Is it just because you are not getting the missile close enough.
Please note, that target tracking is done by the manual trackers, and that mode is not simulated.


Sorry Hpasp, I just don't think it's possible. You need a lock, or the missile just doesn't see the target.

I've guided missiles to a parachute target, with a radar lock, then unlock the target just before before impact, and the missiles just fly past without exploding despite being very, very close.

I've guided missiles to a parachute target, and locked in azimuth only, and manually set elevation and the missile will explode.

I've guided missiles to a parachute target, locked in azimuth only, and manually set elevation half a TV screen above or below the target, and the missile will still explode with around a 120m miss distance. So you don't need to be very close on the screen.

But if I guide a missile to a parachute target, without lock in azimuth or elevation, even if the target and missile are both closer than the size of the crosshair, the missile will not explode!

No lock = no explosion.

#4019207 - 10/07/14 01:20 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Mdore]  
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Originally Posted By: Mdore
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Is it just because you are not getting the missile close enough.
Please note, that target tracking is done by the manual trackers, and that mode is not simulated.


Sorry Hpasp, I just don't think it's possible. You need a lock, or the missile just doesn't see the target.

I've guided missiles to a parachute target, with a radar lock, then unlock the target just before before impact, and the missiles just fly past without exploding despite being very, very close.

I've guided missiles to a parachute target, and locked in azimuth only, and manually set elevation and the missile will explode.

I've guided missiles to a parachute target, locked in azimuth only, and manually set elevation half a TV screen above or below the target, and the missile will still explode with around a 120m miss distance. So you don't need to be very close on the screen.

But if I guide a missile to a parachute target, without lock in azimuth or elevation, even if the target and missile are both closer than the size of the crosshair, the missile will not explode!

No lock = no explosion.


The parachute is slowly moving in Ashuluk, so here is the experiment I did.
I stopped the parachute movement, locked in Epsilon/Beta, switched RAB-OT VM, unlocked both angle, and fired the missile, using T/T.

Now, I found the bug causing this behaviour.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#4019213 - 10/07/14 01:32 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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Good to know there is a bug, and I'm not going crazy :P

#4019217 - 10/07/14 01:40 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Mdore]  
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Originally Posted By: Mdore
Good to know there is a bug, and I'm not going crazy :P


But!

Fixing the parachute target on the sky, and Using T/T RAB-OT-VM, and one angle lock only, I was able to kill the chute.



Last edited by Hpasp; 10/07/14 01:40 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4019221 - 10/07/14 01:48 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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Lock on only at elevation, RAB-OT-VM, T/T.
Track manually only on Betha.

Easy kill of the moving parachute using Karat.

Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
Radar Reflector

S-75M3 Volkhov


00:00, Practice target Radar Reflector launched

+++++++++++++++++
00:00:04, SNR ON AIR


00:00:29, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 100km
Target azimuth: 72°
Target elevation: 15°
Target altitude: 26,2km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:01:07, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target Radar Reflector killed by SAM. (miss distance: 39m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 15sec





Last edited by Hpasp; 10/07/14 01:50 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4019222 - 10/07/14 01:53 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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Yeah, that's what I found too. You only need one lock to be able to kill a target. Two or three locks works too of course.

But with zero locks and the missile just won't explode.

When doing single lock tests, I usually locked azimuth because it drifted faster. Elevation is easier to track manually.

#4019247 - 10/07/14 02:51 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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After the fix, using optics only to align on the fixed parachute.

00:01:37, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target Radar Reflector killed by SAM. (miss distance: 24m)




Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4019251 - 10/07/14 02:59 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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Mdore Offline
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Excellent! Can't wait smile

I wonder if this bug also prevented one missile killing two targets.

#4019257 - 10/07/14 03:06 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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Hpasp Offline
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You can try the fix here:
(the parachute position is fixed)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/.../samsim_141007.rar

Backup the original EXE, do not just overwrite it.

Last edited by Hpasp; 10/07/14 06:44 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4019282 - 10/07/14 04:06 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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Mdore Offline
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Yeah, that works. Thanks Hpasp!

Edit: I've only quickly tested it twice, but I've noticed that the problem is even worse for the SA-2F. You need at least to lock both azimuth AND elevation for missiles to detonate. If you lock only azimuth or have no lock, missiles won't detonate.

Last edited by Mdore; 10/07/14 04:24 PM. Reason: more info
#4019331 - 10/07/14 06:42 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Mdore]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mdore
Yeah, that works. Thanks Hpasp!

Edit: I've only quickly tested it twice, but I've noticed that the problem is even worse for the SA-2F. You need at least to lock both azimuth AND elevation for missiles to detonate. If you lock only azimuth or have no lock, missiles won't detonate.


Same bug, same fix...

http://www.mediafire.com/download/.../samsim_141007b.rar

WARNING: Backup the original EXE, do not just overwrite it, as this EXE is for this fix testing only...
... might crash other systems/scenarios.

Last edited by Hpasp; 10/08/14 06:03 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4019586 - 10/08/14 07:24 AM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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Mdore Offline
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Works! Sorry I kept bothering you with all these bugs. :P

#4019593 - 10/08/14 07:39 AM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Mdore]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mdore
Works! Sorry I kept bothering you with all these bugs. :P


It was a nice find!
I will check other systems also...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4019910 - 10/08/14 07:43 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Question about Hpasp?

Tell me and at Volkhov if low goal I include H < 5 there scoreboard lit and wide beam, and so I can not turn on and the narrow beam immediately and PODSVET, say it correctly or not.

At H < 5 can include a Narrow beam or PODSVET?

It is right or not?

#4022864 - 10/15/14 06:00 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: max2012]  
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Originally Posted By: max2012

Question about Hpasp?

Tell me and at Volkhov if low goal I include H < 5 there scoreboard lit and wide beam, and so I can not turn on and the narrow beam immediately and PODSVET, say it correctly or not.

At H < 5 can include a Narrow beam or PODSVET?

It is right or not?




With H<5, H<1, and Zemlja you can use Wide Beam only.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4022869 - 10/15/14 06:10 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp


1. It will be more complex, when Karat will be introduced...
(it also affects H<5 behaviour)

2. ???


1. It is not possible tho switch off "<5km" mode with other switch....

2. As antenna and KARAT are aligned, what is happening with antenna when "<5km" is switched? What will happen with the view in KARAT? screwy


Karat will still point to the original beam boresight.
At H<5 it will show 3 degree above of the electric boresight.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4022871 - 10/15/14 06:18 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

At H<5 it will show 3 degree above of the electric boresight.


Which means 3 degrees above the target...

#4022880 - 10/15/14 06:36 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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This is the reason, that there is another H<5 blocking switch (not simulated yet) but this time, it is related to the Karat.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
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