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#4018018 - 10/04/14 03:12 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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The way the actress who is playing the mother is acting in this fictionalized and dramatized version of a possibly real event, gives the impression that she was instructing her boy to run over to the Americans and detonate the grenade.

If you are merely "returning" ordinance that you may have found, you a) don't send your kid, and b) don't hide it under your clothes.


Why men throw their lives away attacking an armed Witcher... I'll never know. Something wrong with my face?
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#4018023 - 10/04/14 03:20 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Originally Posted By: Jayhawk
The way the actress who is playing the mother is acting in this fictionalized and dramatized version of a possibly real event, gives the impression that she was instructing her boy to run over to the Americans and detonate the grenade.

If you are merely "returning" ordinance that you may have found, you a) don't send your kid, and b) don't hide it under your clothes.



Exactly my thoughts as well.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4018084 - 10/04/14 05:47 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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Here is my input on a few of the posts.

First off, realize that my experience is some 35 years old and was under different circumstances.

In Sniper School you are instructed on camouflage, stealth, intelligence gathering, and shooting. They did not teach ROE, intent, etc.

The target servicing was predicated on eliminating high value targets and working your way down. This is paramount - a Sniper was trained that all of his effort was at saving the lives of his fellow soldiers by eliminating things that would endanger them. It is about protecting your fellow soldiers. That is drummed into you. So in watching that trailer, I would have shot. First the adult as the key target facilitated by an easy stationary shot. Then quickly shift to the running boy. If he did not stop and/or go the other way because of the shot fired, I would have engaged him so as to eliminate the threat to my fellow soldiers. The actions of both were a threat. I did not see their actions as non-threatening. That said, you then have to live with it. It sucks. All combat does.

However we are lacking all the in-depth intell of the situation. We don't know the threat level, ROE, command and control linkages, we don't know if the sniper team was in contact with those dismounted soldiers, etc, etc. One variable is known -highly experienced sniper team. That almost always results in more controlled engagements. I Will say something about human nature. After all the training and lead-up, a new sniper team will be more likely to shoot. They have been trained to do it and feel the requirement to fulfill that training. Dealing with all the stress, uncertainty, and fear in initial combat experience, they will follow their training to protect their fellow soldiers. A dark thing in human nature is that to some degree they want to perform their role and want to make their first kills. Not an issue in this case.

You don't do fancy targeting. You aim for the best chance of a hit.

Now, I will say that the training is constantly being changed. The training is adapted for the needs of the current conflict. So my ancient training is probably significantly different than now.

Another thing is vastly superior equipment to what I used. Much better scopes. Better clarity, resolution, and magnification.

Which leads me to something I see very wrong in the trailer. Where was the spotter ? The spotter has the better observation optics and is the one responsible for watching and analyzing the assigned area. He makes the initial identification and aims the shooter to the target. The shooter is the secondary scanner for several reasons. Less capable optics and more importantly human factors of not being able to stay in proper shooting position for long because of eye and muscle fatigue. The spotter makes the communications with other units. That is another thing that has changed greatly since I worked. Communications are so vastly superior they are completely different than then. Much more integration of the battlefield because of them.

But in combat, it always comes down to the man on the ground in contact. He will do what he decides is best right then and there.

As I said, I'd have engaged while the spotter reported to whoever was our link. Then go back to scanning the area for other threats.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4018109 - 10/04/14 07:04 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chris2525]  
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Originally Posted By: Chris2525
Ok, watching it again, I realize that what gave me the impression that there wasn't hostile intent was the way the kid was carrying the grenade. His body language said to me that he was bringing it the US troops, not trying to kill them. There's plenty of room for me to be wrong in this impression mind you.

The body language of the mom on the other hand tells the opposite story. Not to mention the guy on the roof (who I would have shot based on his actions and his demeanor).

I'm guessing that scene was specifically scripted to be as ambiguous as possible - probably to illustrate just how hard that guy's job was.


Don't tell me we're analyzing the behaviour of people in a movie? wink

I'm gonna go with common sense here. If you're in a neighborhood of Iraq so bad that you bring tanks, and you see a woman walk out into the street with her child and give him an RPG rocket which he proceeds to start running at your troops with, it's not a good thing that's planned.

Common sense #2: If you take a warning shot with a bolt action rifle, you're gonna have very little time to reload when that kid starts sprinting towards the soldiers. Not to mention that he'd probably also have to stand up, since he didn't appear to have much FoV due to those ornaments or whatever in the wall.

Last edited by scrim; 10/04/14 07:05 PM.
#4018153 - 10/04/14 09:09 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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This movies is based on a book called ....same as the movie name. His first shot was this scenario. He took the shoot.

#4018172 - 10/04/14 10:01 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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lol thanks for the spoiler Sim. now wash your mouth out with fuel oil biggrin

#4018174 - 10/04/14 10:15 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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I looked up this guy on wiki and I had no idea that he's dead and it was such a bizarre death too.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4018188 - 10/04/14 11:00 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Sim]  
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Originally Posted By: Sim
This movies is based on a book called ....same as the movie name. His first shot was this scenario. He took the shoot.


Wow, I could actually feel my brain cells dying during the millisecond it took me to read the content, bad grammar and spelling in that post.

Anyway,

Originally Posted By: CNN
His first kill was a woman who cradled a toddler with one hand and held a grenade in the other.


Originally Posted By: Wiki
His first long-range kill shot was taken during the initial [Iraq] invasion, when he shot a woman approaching a group of Marines with a hand grenade in her hand. As ordered, he opened fire, killing the woman before she could attack.


Not REALLY the scenario in the trailer if you ask me.

I also think its laughable that some of you armchair snipers are making some very real decisions about killing a kid based on a Hollywood trailer.

Take the shoot! wink

#4018191 - 10/04/14 11:15 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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Armchair snipers ?


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4018194 - 10/04/14 11:29 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Ya, kinda like "armchair generals". You've never heard that term?

#4018204 - 10/04/14 11:57 PM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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Some are not armchair snipers. Way to put your foot in your mouth.


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#4018209 - 10/05/14 12:14 AM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Linebacker]  
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Originally Posted By: Linebacker
Ya, kinda like "armchair generals". You've never heard that term?


Probably not, since it doesn't apply to him.


You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
#4018210 - 10/05/14 12:16 AM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Suicidal_6]  
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Originally Posted By: Suicidal_6
Some are not armchair snipers. Way to put your foot in your mouth.


I'm only speaking of anyone who's posted in this thread.

Let's see a show of hands. Who has posted in this thread and has at least one confirmed kill as a sniper?

#4018211 - 10/05/14 12:19 AM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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STFU


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4018214 - 10/05/14 12:24 AM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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<giggles like a school girl>

#4018215 - 10/05/14 12:35 AM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Linebacker]  
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Originally Posted By: Linebacker
Originally Posted By: Suicidal_6
Some are not armchair snipers. Way to put your foot in your mouth.


I'm only speaking of anyone who's posted in this thread.

Let's see a show of hands. Who has posted in this thread and has at least one confirmed kill as a sniper?


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Well, the guy who just told you to STFU would fit that bill.


You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
#4018216 - 10/05/14 12:36 AM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
STFU


Ok, at least one CLAIMED kill as a sniper then. Hands up (and no school girl giggles smile ), and I'll shut my ass right up.

#4018217 - 10/05/14 12:41 AM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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So here's the way its supposed to work. I guess. If you aren't actually a pilot, do not post in any of the aviation threads. You have never flown an airplane. You have no right to offer an opinion.
Never been in the army? Stay out of the tactical threads. You know nothing about tactics or strategy. Been a general? Didn't think so. Do not post.
I'm sure most have never driven a racing car. You are not welcomed in the racing section. Driving your SUV fast on the freeway doesn't count. If you've never done the Indy 500, we don't care what you think.
I've been posting in SUBSIM since reinstalling SH4 and 5. I am going to go and apologize and tell them I won't bother them anymore.
I would like to second Oldgrognard's suggestion.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4018218 - 10/05/14 12:45 AM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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Pooch ... challenge/response is the only rule I post by in these situations.

#4018221 - 10/05/14 12:58 AM Re: American Sniper (film) [Re: Chaz]  
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Thing is, if you're gonna tell people that they shouldn't post if they've never done it....you might as well shut down SimHQ.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

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