Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#4017958 - 10/04/14 11:34 AM SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,365
Stratos Offline
Hotshot
Stratos  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,365
Amposta, Spain
This is a semi OT post as is related to real life SAMS not the game itself. My question is, what SAMS form a air defense? I'm not familiar with SAMS, but can be asumed the SA-3 is a low to medium altitude SAM compleented by SA-2 or SA-6 high altitude SAMS?


-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat??
-To the Graveyard!!

sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4017970 - 10/04/14 12:32 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Mdore Offline
Member
Mdore  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
The systems a country uses to defend its airspace differ from nation to nation.

If you're talking about Russia in the 50s and 60s, the SA-3 was designed to complement the SA-1 and SA-2 systems, being shorter ranged, but better capable of engaging low altitude targets.

#4017975 - 10/04/14 12:52 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,365
Stratos Offline
Hotshot
Stratos  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,365
Amposta, Spain
I'm thinking more in a country like Syria or Iraq during the 80's and early 90's


-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat??
-To the Graveyard!!

sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
#4017989 - 10/04/14 01:37 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Soviet classification is based on range, not on altitude.
Short range; SA-3, SA-6, SA-8
Medium range; SA-1, SA-2, SA-4, SA-10
Long range; SA-5

Considering PVO systems only, here is the Export data:

SA-75MK Dvina (SA-2F)
effective altitude: 300m-27km
Syria 1968-2, 1969-4

S-75M Volhov (SA-2E)
effective altitude: 100m-35km
Iraq 1974-4, 1975-3, 1976-4, 1977-4, 1979-2, 1980-4, 1981-4, 1984-3, 1985-3, 1986-4
Syria 1973-6, 1974-4, 1975-3, 1977-9, 1978-3, 1979-6, 1980-1, 1981-3, 1982-7, 1983-6, 1987-5

S-125M Neva (SA-3B)
effective altitude: 20m-18km
Iraq 1971-4, 1973-2, 1974-3, 1975-9, 1976-3, 1977-3, 1979-2, 1980-5, 1981-3, 1983-4, 1984-8, 1986-6
Syria 1972-8, 1973-4, 1976-3, 1977-3, 1978-6, 1979-3, 1980-6, 1981-6, 1982-3,1983-4, 1987-1

S-200VE Vega (SA-5B)
effective altitude: 300m-40.8km
Syria 1984-4, 1988-4

Last edited by Hpasp; 10/04/14 01:59 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4017999 - 10/04/14 01:54 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,365
Stratos Offline
Hotshot
Stratos  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,365
Amposta, Spain
So for a heavily defended area in Syria It should be something like SA-3 and SA-2 or SA-6 and SA-2, right? That complemented with SA-8, ZSU-23-4 and different caliber AAA.

Something like that?


-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat??
-To the Graveyard!!

sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
#4018003 - 10/04/14 02:08 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Anything can be, but the Soviet original plan is:

PVO (homeland defense)
Short range: SA-3
Medium range: SA-2, SA-10
Long range: SA-5

PVO-SV (ARMY)
Front: SA-4, SA-12
Army: SA-4, SA-11
Armored division: SA-6
Mechanized division: SA-8
Armored or Mechanized regiment: ZSU-23-4 and SA-9, SA-13

Last edited by Hpasp; 10/04/14 02:18 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4018009 - 10/04/14 02:31 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,365
Stratos Offline
Hotshot
Stratos  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,365
Amposta, Spain
Thanks mate!!

Is sometimes difficult to create realistic missions If you don't know how the enemy (or your own troops) work! yep


-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat??
-To the Graveyard!!

sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
#4018010 - 10/04/14 02:31 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Mdore Offline
Member
Mdore  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Though just because that was Soviet doctrine, doesn't mean that nations like Syria or Iraq necessarily followed those guidelines.

These nations also had some air defence equipment from nations other than Russia.

#4018037 - 10/04/14 03:44 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
scrim Offline
Member
scrim  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
Well I don't know about Syria, but Iraq's IADS was built from the ground up by the Soviets according to their designs last time I checked. The only difference was that they also incorporated a few Western systems such as the Roland.

#4018053 - 10/04/14 04:47 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: scrim]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Lonewolf357 Offline
Member
Lonewolf357  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Originally Posted By: scrim
Well I don't know about Syria, but Iraq's IADS was built from the ground up by the Soviets according to their designs last time I checked. The only difference was that they also incorporated a few Western systems such as the Roland.


Does anyone know which IADS systems did Iraq used? Because they did not received any Senezh or Vektor IADS, only one ASURK-1ME - a 1960es system, capable to integrate no more than 8 S-75 or S-125.
And, by the way, does anyone know if they had P-18 radars, and how many?

#4018060 - 10/04/14 05:00 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Iraq

30 Kabina
8 P14
6 O14

1 ASURK IADS

P15 is standard with Neva (one per battery)
P18 is standard with Volhov (one per battery)


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4018080 - 10/04/14 05:43 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Lonewolf357 Offline
Member
Lonewolf357  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Though just because that was Soviet doctrine, doesn't mean that nations like Syria or Iraq necessarily followed those guidelines.

These nations also had some air defence equipment from nations other than Russia.


The Arab nations tend to consolidate their air defence assets within separate Air Defence Forces, independent from both Air Force and the Army. Even systems that were issued to the Army rather than ADF in Soviet Union, such as SA-6 and SA-8, were often issued to ADF in these countries, and were used to defend national infrastructure, rather than troops in the field (at least in cas eof Iraq-1991). This practice is still used by Egypt, and I suppose was used by Iraq as well.

Last edited by Lonewolf357; 10/04/14 05:47 PM.
#4018082 - 10/04/14 05:46 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Lonewolf357 Offline
Member
Lonewolf357  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Iraq

30 Kabina
8 P14
6 O14

1 ASURK IADS

P15 is standard with Neva (one per battery)
P18 is standard with Volhov (one per battery)


Thanks, Hpasp.
So what kind of some super-IADS are people talking about in case of Iraq, if they only had one obsolete ASURK?

#4018089 - 10/04/14 05:58 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Iraq

30 Kabina
8 P14
6 O14

1 ASURK IADS

P15 is standard with Neva (one per battery)
P18 is standard with Volhov (one per battery)


http://www.armourbook.com/forum/topic_1651/last

#4018093 - 10/04/14 06:24 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Lonewolf357]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Iraq

30 Kabina
8 P14
6 O14

1 ASURK IADS

P15 is standard with Neva (one per battery)
P18 is standard with Volhov (one per battery)


Thanks, Hpasp.
So what kind of some super-IADS are people talking about in case of Iraq, if they only had one obsolete ASURK?


Advanced IADS were not exported widely, as they were sensitive and expensive.

Vektor 1979-83
Poland - 3
Hungary - 1
Czechoslovakia - 1
GDR - 1
Bulgaria - 1

Cuba - 1
Syria - 3

Senezh 1984-1990
Hungary - 1
Czechoslovakia - 1
GDR - 2
Bulgaria - 1

Libya - 3
Syria - 2


Last edited by Hpasp; 10/04/14 06:29 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4018100 - 10/04/14 06:34 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Lonewolf357 Offline
Member
Lonewolf357  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Iraq

30 Kabina
8 P14
6 O14

1 ASURK IADS

P15 is standard with Neva (one per battery)
P18 is standard with Volhov (one per battery)


Thanks, Hpasp.
So what kind of some super-IADS are people talking about in case of Iraq, if they only had one obsolete ASURK?


Advanced IADS were not exported widely, as they were sensitive and expensive.

Vektor 1979-83
Poland - 3
Hungary - 1
Czechoslovakia - 1
GDR - 1
Bulgaria - 1

Cuba - 1
Syria - 3

Senezh 1984-1990
Hungary - 1
Czechoslovakia - 1
GDR - 2
Bulgaria - 1

Libya - 3
Syria - 2



Yeah, I have that data too, from the historykpvo site. But people keep talking about some super-IADS that Iraqis supposedly had in 1991. One ASURK certainly doesn't qualify as such. I suppose that mythical super-IADS was nothing more than a number of plotting boards and field telephones...

Last edited by Lonewolf357; 10/04/14 06:34 PM.
#4018103 - 10/04/14 06:50 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Lonewolf357]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357


Yeah, I have that data too, from the historykpvo site. But people keep talking about some super-IADS that Iraqis supposedly had in 1991. One ASURK certainly doesn't qualify as such. I suppose that mythical super-IADS was nothing more than a number of plotting boards and field telephones...



Maybe some non-USSR IADS is implemented...

#4018117 - 10/04/14 07:32 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Lonewolf357 Offline
Member
Lonewolf357  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Originally Posted By: piston79

Maybe some non-USSR IADS is implemented...


Yeah, I also heard rumors of some French hardware used for this purpose... However it is hard to imagine how the French system could be integrated with Soviet-made radars and SAMs, and that's not in 1990es, when Russian developers would cooperate, but in 1980es, when such cooperation was out of the question.

#4018137 - 10/04/14 08:29 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: Stratos]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 174
apelles Offline
Member
apelles  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 174
Hungary, Székesfehérvár
The french engineers readily give their best for money during the cold war...

#4018169 - 10/04/14 09:55 PM Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS? [Re: apelles]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Lonewolf357 Offline
Member
Lonewolf357  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 203
Originally Posted By: apelles
The french engineers readily give their best for money during the cold war...


Is there any specific information about that French IADS in Iraq? I've only heard rumours.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0