#4017958 - 10/04/14 11:34 AM
SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
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Stratos
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This is a semi OT post as is related to real life SAMS not the game itself. My question is, what SAMS form a air defense? I'm not familiar with SAMS, but can be asumed the SA-3 is a low to medium altitude SAM compleented by SA-2 or SA-6 high altitude SAMS?
-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat?? -To the Graveyard!!
sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
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#4017975 - 10/04/14 12:52 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Stratos]
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I'm thinking more in a country like Syria or Iraq during the 80's and early 90's
-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat?? -To the Graveyard!!
sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
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#4017989 - 10/04/14 01:37 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Stratos]
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Hpasp
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Soviet classification is based on range, not on altitude. Short range; SA-3, SA-6, SA-8 Medium range; SA-1, SA-2, SA-4, SA-10 Long range; SA-5
Considering PVO systems only, here is the Export data:
SA-75MK Dvina (SA-2F) effective altitude: 300m-27km Syria 1968-2, 1969-4
S-75M Volhov (SA-2E) effective altitude: 100m-35km Iraq 1974-4, 1975-3, 1976-4, 1977-4, 1979-2, 1980-4, 1981-4, 1984-3, 1985-3, 1986-4 Syria 1973-6, 1974-4, 1975-3, 1977-9, 1978-3, 1979-6, 1980-1, 1981-3, 1982-7, 1983-6, 1987-5
S-125M Neva (SA-3B) effective altitude: 20m-18km Iraq 1971-4, 1973-2, 1974-3, 1975-9, 1976-3, 1977-3, 1979-2, 1980-5, 1981-3, 1983-4, 1984-8, 1986-6 Syria 1972-8, 1973-4, 1976-3, 1977-3, 1978-6, 1979-3, 1980-6, 1981-6, 1982-3,1983-4, 1987-1
S-200VE Vega (SA-5B) effective altitude: 300m-40.8km Syria 1984-4, 1988-4
Last edited by Hpasp; 10/04/14 01:59 PM.
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#4017999 - 10/04/14 01:54 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Stratos]
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So for a heavily defended area in Syria It should be something like SA-3 and SA-2 or SA-6 and SA-2, right? That complemented with SA-8, ZSU-23-4 and different caliber AAA.
Something like that?
-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat?? -To the Graveyard!!
sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
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#4018003 - 10/04/14 02:08 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Stratos]
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Hpasp
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Anything can be, but the Soviet original plan is:
PVO (homeland defense) Short range: SA-3 Medium range: SA-2, SA-10 Long range: SA-5
PVO-SV (ARMY) Front: SA-4, SA-12 Army: SA-4, SA-11 Armored division: SA-6 Mechanized division: SA-8 Armored or Mechanized regiment: ZSU-23-4 and SA-9, SA-13
Last edited by Hpasp; 10/04/14 02:18 PM.
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#4018009 - 10/04/14 02:31 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Stratos]
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Stratos
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Thanks mate!! Is sometimes difficult to create realistic missions If you don't know how the enemy (or your own troops) work!
-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat?? -To the Graveyard!!
sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
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#4018053 - 10/04/14 04:47 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: scrim]
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Lonewolf357
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Well I don't know about Syria, but Iraq's IADS was built from the ground up by the Soviets according to their designs last time I checked. The only difference was that they also incorporated a few Western systems such as the Roland. Does anyone know which IADS systems did Iraq used? Because they did not received any Senezh or Vektor IADS, only one ASURK-1ME - a 1960es system, capable to integrate no more than 8 S-75 or S-125. And, by the way, does anyone know if they had P-18 radars, and how many?
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#4018080 - 10/04/14 05:43 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Mdore]
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Lonewolf357
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Though just because that was Soviet doctrine, doesn't mean that nations like Syria or Iraq necessarily followed those guidelines.
These nations also had some air defence equipment from nations other than Russia. The Arab nations tend to consolidate their air defence assets within separate Air Defence Forces, independent from both Air Force and the Army. Even systems that were issued to the Army rather than ADF in Soviet Union, such as SA-6 and SA-8, were often issued to ADF in these countries, and were used to defend national infrastructure, rather than troops in the field (at least in cas eof Iraq-1991). This practice is still used by Egypt, and I suppose was used by Iraq as well.
Last edited by Lonewolf357; 10/04/14 05:47 PM.
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#4018082 - 10/04/14 05:46 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Hpasp]
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Lonewolf357
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Iraq
30 Kabina 8 P14 6 O14
1 ASURK IADS
P15 is standard with Neva (one per battery) P18 is standard with Volhov (one per battery) Thanks, Hpasp. So what kind of some super-IADS are people talking about in case of Iraq, if they only had one obsolete ASURK?
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#4018093 - 10/04/14 06:24 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Lonewolf357]
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Hpasp
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Iraq
30 Kabina 8 P14 6 O14
1 ASURK IADS
P15 is standard with Neva (one per battery) P18 is standard with Volhov (one per battery) Thanks, Hpasp. So what kind of some super-IADS are people talking about in case of Iraq, if they only had one obsolete ASURK? Advanced IADS were not exported widely, as they were sensitive and expensive. Vektor 1979-83 Poland - 3 Hungary - 1 Czechoslovakia - 1 GDR - 1 Bulgaria - 1 Cuba - 1 Syria - 3 Senezh 1984-1990 Hungary - 1 Czechoslovakia - 1 GDR - 2 Bulgaria - 1 Libya - 3 Syria - 2
Last edited by Hpasp; 10/04/14 06:29 PM.
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#4018100 - 10/04/14 06:34 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Hpasp]
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Lonewolf357
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Iraq
30 Kabina 8 P14 6 O14
1 ASURK IADS
P15 is standard with Neva (one per battery) P18 is standard with Volhov (one per battery) Thanks, Hpasp. So what kind of some super-IADS are people talking about in case of Iraq, if they only had one obsolete ASURK? Advanced IADS were not exported widely, as they were sensitive and expensive. Vektor 1979-83 Poland - 3 Hungary - 1 Czechoslovakia - 1 GDR - 1 Bulgaria - 1 Cuba - 1 Syria - 3 Senezh 1984-1990 Hungary - 1 Czechoslovakia - 1 GDR - 2 Bulgaria - 1 Libya - 3 Syria - 2 Yeah, I have that data too, from the historykpvo site. But people keep talking about some super-IADS that Iraqis supposedly had in 1991. One ASURK certainly doesn't qualify as such. I suppose that mythical super-IADS was nothing more than a number of plotting boards and field telephones...
Last edited by Lonewolf357; 10/04/14 06:34 PM.
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#4018103 - 10/04/14 06:50 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: Lonewolf357]
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piston79
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Yeah, I have that data too, from the historykpvo site. But people keep talking about some super-IADS that Iraqis supposedly had in 1991. One ASURK certainly doesn't qualify as such. I suppose that mythical super-IADS was nothing more than a number of plotting boards and field telephones...
Maybe some non-USSR IADS is implemented...
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#4018117 - 10/04/14 07:32 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: piston79]
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Lonewolf357
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Maybe some non-USSR IADS is implemented...
Yeah, I also heard rumors of some French hardware used for this purpose... However it is hard to imagine how the French system could be integrated with Soviet-made radars and SAMs, and that's not in 1990es, when Russian developers would cooperate, but in 1980es, when such cooperation was out of the question.
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#4018169 - 10/04/14 09:55 PM
Re: SemiOT: Low, medium and high altitude SAMS?
[Re: apelles]
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Lonewolf357
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The french engineers readily give their best for money during the cold war... Is there any specific information about that French IADS in Iraq? I've only heard rumours.
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