To cut a long story short a very god friend of mine has just admitted to his family and friends he has a gambling Problem. unfortunately its done permanent damage to his finances. Looks like he is going to loose his home, I sat down with him last night and looking at the figures he is in Real trouble he owes tens of thousands, this guy was one of the most stand up hard working guys I know a family Man a church going man, WTF happened to him. I am wondering but wont ask him he is in a bad way mentally because of the stress, He did tell me it all started from a innocent flutter and escalated from there I have made a appointment with the solicitor/Accountant I used when I was deep #%&*$# because of speculative property investments. Lets hope they can save his home at least.
But let this be a warning If your bored a see a pop advert for a free bet This is what can happen.
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
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King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,389
Miami, FL USA
**Shrug**
It all has to come down to personal responsibility and not government trying to tell people how to live their lives.
I could go out right now and buy 20 cases of vodka and drink it all in a couple of days but I wont.
I could go out right now and visit my local casino and gamble my entire savings but I wont.
etc., etc.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
But when you bet sports, the way to win is to set a bankroll and have disciplined money management. Never chase a loss and do your research. If you have a bad week, move on to the next. And that's what I do.
So far I'm 16-8-1 in the NFL this season and even more up in college.
All this to say, gambling can be harmless entertainment, if you let it be that. But like most things in life you can't let it take you over. Furthermore, outside of sports and blackjack/craps (blackjack because skill matters and craps because the house has such a tiny advantage)...there are pretty much no other games in a casino that should be touched. Just my opinion.
But again, even with craps, it's all in how you play. Let your money ride and you will lose it. Manage your money, don't press your winnings, and play conservative and you'll end up just a little down (after hours of fun), even, or up.
People that aren't ok with leaving a casino even or having lost a few bucks will eventually end up in big trouble. The house will always win in the end. The only exception is sports betting. And that's why sports books charge juice (5-10% premiums on bets) and try to get even betting on each side.
I've stayed at dozens of casinos over the years during layovers and big-budget conferences. Not once have I bought a chip or dropped a coin in a slot. I love drinking while watching my friends or coworkers play but I've had the good fortune of never being bit by that particular bug. I big help for me was flying junkets for high rollers to Atlantic City in a King Air. These classless people would get off the plane on Friday drunk and excited. On Sunday, after losses in the 10s of thousands they would return almost suicidal. One died of a heart attack on the flight home. Another told me he never leaves the floor--and he showed me his stash of Depends diapers as proof. I'm sorry for your friend. As I see it, the key to gambling (from the casino's perspective) is the illusion of skill.
There's a sucker born every minute. I'd really like gambling to actually become legal in my area. We have Indian reservations everywhere so there's plenty of spots where gambling literally magically becomes legal by crossing the street.
Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds. Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
Sorry to hear this. Hopefully those who depend on him will not suffer too badly from the outcome.
In addition to legal/financial counsel, I would look into gambling counseling. No matter what the third party (whether gambling house, bar, whatever) may have done legally, ethically, or otherwise... IMO the key is helping/getting the person to the point they can stand squarely in face of this, either on their own or with support groups.
All the best to them and their family.
WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
As I stated I Havant gone to much in to why or how I think he askes for my help as I had financial problems in the past and told him about them But the guy I have known for twenty odd years was very prudent he is a self employed builder great pair of hands can put them to anything. I think he's had some sort of mid life crisis. In all the years I have known him I never seen him place a bet drink to much the only thing i would say he Was addicted to was work he never stopped. He showed me his account with a well known online casino It was pretty obvious he had a problem he lost tens of thousand in one day alone he cleared out his Bank account. the problem now is how to keep him credit worthy he cant go bankrupt and stay in business. I hope the guys I recommend to Him can help.
It sounds like he had some sort of underlying life problem that may have manifested through gambling. As you mention, some sort of mid life crisis. Additionally addiction to work can be a good or bad thing, and a possible symptom of bigger problems.
Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds. Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
I do agree with you guys, a man is responsible for his own actions But there is a argument aggressive marketing by online casino's may be responsible for attracting People who are in desperate circumstances who would not normally make a bet I checked my spam folder there are at least ten casino's making starting offers they no my name Never registered with any but my computer was vulnerable for a couple of days I did not update my virus protection. straight away when it ran out since then I have been bombarded with spam mails which I don't seem to be able to stop even though I have protection now. Below example of a spam mail I normally don't open them just delete them. Ok you would need to be pretty desperate to believe it was a legit offer but desperate people do desperate Things. And there seems to be plenty of hawks around to take advantage. Not sure if its even possible to stop this, but I heard some country's have very good rules in place to stop them Illegally canvasing. If somebody wants to gamble they should be able to but all should be done to stop people Getting addicted.IE stop them from making to good to be true offers and illegally spamming people IMO.
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The same as any other advertisements, the entire idea of them is to appeal to people and get them to buy a product or service. That some people in this world are desperate isn't grounds to arbitrarily abolish advertising for the certain "bad" market of the day. As unfortunate as your friend's predicament is, it's 100% no one's responsibility but his own.
You won't be more sexy if you shop at Victoria's Secret, you won't become rich gambling, you won't be incredibly clean if you buy this shaving cream, etc. If it's something like a Nigerian prince scam that aims to literally steal data from people that's one thing, but it's not a casino's fault if someone is gullible enough to believe they'll make it big when it's incredibly common sense knowledge that you won't.
You'll have to forgive my forward demeanor but I'm a pretty dang strong proponent of personal responsibility for one's actions.
That all being said, I don't believe your friend was probably one to succumb to advertising, your information has certainly pointed to a much different cause of some sort.
Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds. Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 19,581Raw Kryptonite
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MS
People are oftentimes self-destructive. The means they go with varies--gambling, alcohol, drugs, adultery...who knows. Most can be handled with restraint and common sense, sometimes it can't and what you do is simply without any redeeming qualities. A week ago my wife and I were on a weekend trip and decided to go to the dog track in the city, part of a casino. Worst one casino experience I've ever had. I'm cheap too, not much for throwing money away, but they gave us $20 ea for slots and we spent a total of $12 on the dogs over a couple of hours. We had a good time, but I didn't see ANYONE else there having fun. Desperation was in the air as thick as the cheap cigar smoke. It was sad. We used our free money on the way out the door and didn't even enjoy throwing that away since slots are now a push button experience without even tokens. No arm to pull, just a stupid button and a card in the slot. We blew through the free $40 on dollar slots in about 5 minutes and left. We had fun, cheap, but it was depressing seeing that place chock full of people that looked serious, angry and desperate hoping for a win. At least the dogs were pretty cool.
Have been doing some research. Trying to find out if there's any help for my friend none financially, But I did find a GA centre not to far From his home I will offer to take him but he is a proud guy. so I don't know if he will go. You can lead a horse to water and all that. the solicitor and accountant I used worked wonders for me. And saved My home. Even though the banks did all they could to take it which is rich considering it was on There financial consultants advice that I invested in the property market in the first place. the only difference between my situation and my Friends, is mine were mostly bank loans, most of his debt seems to be on credit Cards. He had crazy amounts of credit to hand. Now all maxed out.
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 24,712Dart
Measured in Llamathrusts
Dart
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Lifer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Alabaster, AL USA
Originally Posted By: Wireman
I enjoy Vegas layovers to people watch at the casino tables. Everyone of them is a story.
I don't get the allure of online gambling, but I loves me a craps table - the world of probabilities played out in real time. I'm the guy that can stay at a table for hours with a hundred bucks, playing conservatively and not afraid of playing the "no." One just can't holler with glee when a fellow craps out.
A craps table is about getting the positive mojo going and shouting ridiculous things to make people laugh.
Plus I figure it's just really expensive coffee. They bring one a fresh cup every twenty minutes, and the price of it varies wildly. Indeed, at times they pay me to drink it.
Once gambling crosses into addiction, however, it's a different kettle of fish - it's not fun for the people doing it; then again, compulsions rarely are.
On unsecured debt, that's not that big an issue. Call the companies and give them a figure a tenth of what is owed to settle; if they don't counter with a decent offer, tell them honestly that you're going to send them some money every month, but that it's just until the bankruptcy proceeding commence. It's terrible - nobody wants to renege on their word - but at some point one has to push the reset button. At least since the Australians got the big idea that they're a country in their own right and not a dumping ground for debtors.
Last edited by Dart; 09/24/1411:07 PM.
The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.
I used to love playing crap too as a young man. I have to admit I did get a little addicted to the thrill of the dice in the air. When I was in my 20's me and my friends went to Vegas all the time. It took me a while to figure out I was really being stupid with my money. I try not to think about how much I lost back then. Had a lot of fun though. You can get yourself in trouble really quick.
Was in High school when we would play poker during lunch or study time. Became addicted and we would have big money games, lost $250 during one game and told myself this is it. Will never never gamble for again since my last paystub vanished in the most stupid way. Have only gambled a few times since that day and with no more then a $10 roll of quarters. We don`t buy lottery tickets or pull tabs. If we go to the Casino, it to eat, that's all we have done for many years.
Have seen many old friends fall into the gambling habit only to find themselves destitute from it, begging for money.
Buying individual stocks online has also ruined plenty of people and that certainly is gambling
Yes, BUT, online gaming actually tries very hard to get people to play. The stock market not so much. I think countries are becoming more responsible regarding gambling in general. People should be allowed to play but addiction and criminality should be controlled by law. Gambling addiction is just as much of a decease as alcoholism. I think it's unfair to put this down to some "free will"-issue.
Back in 1980 I worked for a company that sold/hired amusement machines. I installed, serviced and repaired them. You can set the odds on payout on them, normally they were set at around 10% retention, now this is the mechanical machines not the more sophisticated micro-processor controlled ones, so you put 100 in and it would pay back out 90. I installed the first computer controlled bandit in the region, it paid out at a higher rate in the first two weeks it was installed and got people hooked on it, then it settled back down to the normal 90%.
At the end of the first week that bandit was installed I got called out as it was broken. When I got there, I opened it up to take a look, it was over flowing with coins, so much so that they had backed up to the coin slot and blocked the mechanisim. There was around 2000 in 10p coins in the machine, they poured out all over the floor when I opened the cash drawer.
In our bar we had a bandit, one person had watched it for a long while and could see a pattern in it's pay out, he played the bandit when there was a higher probability of getting a pay out, I think he was the only one to get back more than he put in!
The pool table I put in the bar paid for it's self in less than 2 weeks, I wish I had put one in a lot earlier!
Some of the things I seen made me doubt, some people put an absolute fortune in the machines, hundreds of pounds in a sitting and in one particular case a person put over 200 in one afternoon in one bandit and that particular person was a well respected businessman. (200 from 1980 is around 3000 in todays money)
Personally I would not touch an amusement machine with payout for all the tea in China
Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil Sons of the hound come here and get flesh Clan Cameron
In order for gambling to be something you find attractive, you have to have been conditioned that money is something wonderful and desirable, by itself. That has never worked for me. I have no interest in money, nor any expectation that a surfeit of it would improve my life detectably, so gambling has always appeared to me to be an utterly complete bore. And then there was the time I volunteered to help raise money for my high school by participating in a fundraising "carnival" day, manning an "over7-under7" dice booth, and watched people blowing money they couldn't afford, minimum bet 10 cents, but some wanted to put down $20, which in those days was about three days pay. I came away baffled, dismayed, and disappointed, a recurring theme in my life...
Buying individual stocks online has also ruined plenty of people and that certainly is gambling
Yes, BUT, online gaming actually tries very hard to get people to play. The stock market not so much. I think countries are becoming more responsible regarding gambling in general. People should be allowed to play but addiction and criminality should be controlled by law. Gambling addiction is just as much of a decease as alcoholism. I think it's unfair to put this down to some "free will"-issue.
-C-
I, on the other hand, think it's unfair to force others to do your bidding against your free will no matter how stupid that will may be. I really, really don't need some jackhole politician in an office telling me what I can and can't do based on his own morality, more than what we have already
Where you see countries becoming more "responsible" I see more rules crammed down people's throats based on arbitrary feelings of what's "right".
Bluntly, addiction to anything is your own damn problem caused by your own damn self, it's not any government's responsibility or right to enforce or spend tax money on in any universe (gambling, alcoholism, skydiving, or whatever). Criminal actions such as theft, however, are obviously within their domain.
We don't need more rules, we need more people that can control themselves and understand they're actually responsible for their own actions instead of relying on their mommy governments to fix their stupid self inflicted problems with tax payer's money. So there
Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds. Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
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King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,389
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
And what's the solution for people that are incapable of doing that?
The Jedi Master
Hopefully they'll have family members or a charity they can get help from. As long as no tax payer money is used it's not a problem.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Buying individual stocks online has also ruined plenty of people and that certainly is gambling
Yes, BUT, online gaming actually tries very hard to get people to play. The stock market not so much. I think countries are becoming more responsible regarding gambling in general. People should be allowed to play but addiction and criminality should be controlled by law. Gambling addiction is just as much of a decease as alcoholism. I think it's unfair to put this down to some "free will"-issue.
-C-
I, on the other hand, think it's unfair to force others to do your bidding against your free will no matter how stupid that will may be. I really, really don't need some jackhole politician in an office telling me what I can and can't do based on his own morality, more than what we have already
Where you see countries becoming more "responsible" I see more rules crammed down people's throats based on arbitrary feelings of what's "right".
Bluntly, addiction to anything is your own damn problem caused by your own damn self, it's not any government's responsibility or right to enforce or spend tax money on in any universe (gambling, alcoholism, skydiving, or whatever). Criminal actions such as theft, however, are obviously within their domain.
We don't need more rules, we need more people that can control themselves and understand they're actually responsible for their own actions instead of relying on their mommy governments to fix their stupid self inflicted problems with tax payer's money. So there
On one level peally I agree. But the reality is if governments don't do something to stop Casinos Then who, In a perfect world your right a person should be responsible for three own actions But one thing my own financial situation showed me, people in desperate situations do desperate things.. I do not know why my friend gambled away thirty years of hard earned saving why he maxed out numerous credit Cards I will make no excuse for my friend to tell the truth I pissed with him he has put his home marriage and Children's future in jeopardy why did he leave it so late to ask for help. he certainly did not need the money When he started he was in a very comfortable position financially. so with him its wasn't desperation. I have been doing some research to see if he may have a legal case against the casino in question did you know the minute you give your details in person or online to a casino you are credit checked. They even have software to detect patens of play so its not unreasonable to assume they new he had a problem There very clever though. the keep harping on about responsible gaming I was on the casino site today checking things out and a chat bar opened with welcome how can we help you here is a latest first time deposit offer but if you deposit now we will give you a extra ten percent this is a one time offer only. come on what a rip off I agree if you want to place a bet or play a hand of poker no one should try to stop you. But what should be stopped is the so called incentives. In my neck of the woods tobacco and to some degree alcohol advertising is restricted should be the same for casinos.
Buying individual stocks online has also ruined plenty of people and that certainly is gambling
Yes, BUT, online gaming actually tries very hard to get people to play. The stock market not so much. I think countries are becoming more responsible regarding gambling in general. People should be allowed to play but addiction and criminality should be controlled by law. Gambling addiction is just as much of a decease as alcoholism. I think it's unfair to put this down to some "free will"-issue.
-C-
I, on the other hand, think it's unfair to force others to do your bidding against your free will no matter how stupid that will may be. I really, really don't need some jackhole politician in an office telling me what I can and can't do based on his own morality, more than what we have already
Where you see countries becoming more "responsible" I see more rules crammed down people's throats based on arbitrary feelings of what's "right".
Bluntly, addiction to anything is your own damn problem caused by your own damn self, it's not any government's responsibility or right to enforce or spend tax money on in any universe (gambling, alcoholism, skydiving, or whatever). Criminal actions such as theft, however, are obviously within their domain.
We don't need more rules, we need more people that can control themselves and understand they're actually responsible for their own actions instead of relying on their mommy governments to fix their stupid self inflicted problems with tax payer's money. So there
On one level peally I agree. But the reality is if governments don't do something to stop Casinos Then who, In a perfect world your right a person should be responsible for three own actions But one thing my own financial situation showed me, people in desperate situations do desperate things.. I do not know why my friend gambled away thirty years of hard earned saving why he maxed out numerous credit Cards I will make no excuse for my friend to tell the truth I pissed with him he has put his home marriage and Children's future in jeopardy why did he leave it so late to ask for help. he certainly did not need the money When he started he was in a very comfortable position financially. so with him its wasn't desperation. I have been doing some research to see if he may have a legal case against the casino in question did you know the minute you give your details in person or online to a casino you are credit checked. They even have software to detect patens of play so its not unreasonable to assume they new he had a problem There very clever though. the keep harping on about responsible gaming I was on the casino site today checking things out and a chat bar opened with welcome how can we help you here is a latest first time deposit offer but if you deposit now we will give you a extra ten percent this is a one time offer only. come on what a rip off I agree if you want to place a bet or play a hand of poker no one should try to stop you. But what should be stopped is the so called incentives. In my neck of the woods tobacco and to some degree alcohol advertising is restricted should be the same for casinos.
It's flat out not a government's problem, and I sincerely doubt he has any remote chance of a legal case. It's regrettable that it happens but seeking out a lawsuit is the polar opposite of having any responsibility. Still not the domain of spending any tax money on, a legitimate and completely legal business is simply making money off of people with way more money than sense, and in a much larger number people trying to have honest harmless fun.
That's like suing a gun store because they sold you something you shot your foot with, or a bakery for getting fat. He needs to man up, accept that he and he alone screwed himself, and learn from his mistakes. I don't want loads money I paid used for helping people out of stupid completely avoidable situations like that, I want it spent on building roads and handing out grunt paychecks like it's supposed to be. The government's place isn't to bail people out and wrap the world in bubble wrap "for their own good".
I appreciate your concern for your fellow man, honestly I do, but I'm not going to be swayed that we need more nanny state laws and regulations to cover for stupidity. If people are going to fall for every advertising scam on the planet big gov has no right to stop them, you do as an individual
Oh, and as always I apologize for being blunt. It's hard to sound friendly through text
Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds. Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
Buying individual stocks online has also ruined plenty of people and that certainly is gambling
Yes, BUT, online gaming actually tries very hard to get people to play. The stock market not so much. I think countries are becoming more responsible regarding gambling in general. People should be allowed to play but addiction and criminality should be controlled by law. Gambling addiction is just as much of a decease as alcoholism. I think it's unfair to put this down to some "free will"-issue.
-C-
I, on the other hand, think it's unfair to force others to do your bidding against your free will no matter how stupid that will may be. I really, really don't need some jackhole politician in an office telling me what I can and can't do based on his own morality, more than what we have already
Where you see countries becoming more "responsible" I see more rules crammed down people's throats based on arbitrary feelings of what's "right".
Bluntly, addiction to anything is your own damn problem caused by your own damn self, it's not any government's responsibility or right to enforce or spend tax money on in any universe (gambling, alcoholism, skydiving, or whatever). Criminal actions such as theft, however, are obviously within their domain.
We don't need more rules, we need more people that can control themselves and understand they're actually responsible for their own actions instead of relying on their mommy governments to fix their stupid self inflicted problems with tax payer's money. So there
On one level peally I agree. But the reality is if governments don't do something to stop Casinos Then who, In a perfect world your right a person should be responsible for three own actions But one thing my own financial situation showed me, people in desperate situations do desperate things.. I do not know why my friend gambled away thirty years of hard earned saving why he maxed out numerous credit Cards I will make no excuse for my friend to tell the truth I pissed with him he has put his home marriage and Children's future in jeopardy why did he leave it so late to ask for help. he certainly did not need the money When he started he was in a very comfortable position financially. so with him its wasn't desperation. I have been doing some research to see if he may have a legal case against the casino in question did you know the minute you give your details in person or online to a casino you are credit checked. They even have software to detect patens of play so its not unreasonable to assume they new he had a problem There very clever though. the keep harping on about responsible gaming I was on the casino site today checking things out and a chat bar opened with welcome how can we help you here is a latest first time deposit offer but if you deposit now we will give you a extra ten percent this is a one time offer only. come on what a rip off I agree if you want to place a bet or play a hand of poker no one should try to stop you. But what should be stopped is the so called incentives. In my neck of the woods tobacco and to some degree alcohol advertising is restricted should be the same for casinos.
It's flat out not a government's problem, and I sincerely doubt he has any remote chance of a legal case. It's regrettable that it happens but seeking out a lawsuit is the polar opposite of having any responsibility. Still not the domain of spending any tax money on, a legitimate and completely legal business is simply making money off of people with way more money than sense, and in a much larger number people trying to have honest harmless fun.
That's like suing a gun store because they sold you something you shot your foot with, or a bakery for getting fat. He needs to man up, accept that he and he alone screwed himself, and learn from his mistakes. I don't want loads money I paid used for helping people out of stupid completely avoidable situations like that, I want it spent on building roads and handing out grunt paychecks like it's supposed to be. The government's place isn't to bail people out and wrap the world in bubble wrap "for their own good".
I appreciate your concern for your fellow man, honestly I do, but I'm not going to be swayed that we need more nanny state laws and regulations to cover for stupidity. If people are going to fall for every advertising scam on the planet big gov has no right to stop them, you do as an individual
Oh, and as always I apologize for being blunt. It's hard to sound friendly through text
No problems with your statements Peally but we will have to agree to disagree on this issue I enjoy a good healthy debate and you made some very valid points. It was me who was looking at the legal angle on my friends behalf, (your right) there is no case for a law suite. Even though I did find this. Link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPG_xnznROQ I did speak to my friend today there is light at the end of the tunnel For him. The personal insolvency consultant I recommend to him is confident he can save his home and business if he follows his guide lines and stops Gambling.
I'll be in Vegas tomorrow. I will spend money. But it will be at the Yardhouse. (I don't expect to get any of it back.)
If I ever loose on the gaming tables nor would I look for my money back, but my point is they new my friend had a problem. My friend and i spoke for two hours last night They kept sending him free offers even free Money. As much as they try to give the impression that they promote Responsible Gambling compulsives are there life Blood I don't know why I have taken this issue to hart so much But I read on one GA forum some casinos in Australia give food parcels to there regular addicts. A more responsible thing to do would be to ban them. one of the big gambling compulsions seems to be bingo Bored house wife's. The stories I have read were nothing sort of shocking homes lost. marriages broken Family ruined. again if people what to place a bet that's there business but the constant bombardment of TV Adverts spam mail cash incentives to play is wrong and should be better controlled most of the online casino's Are registered in Malta and use a voluntary code of conduct. talk about putting the fox in charge of the chicken House also there not paying much in the way of taxes talk about win win the can lot lose The USA is on to them blocking them from attracting or signing up punters from the states
What would I do to stop this epidemic, and yes it is epidemic.
Ban online Gambling make casinos give so much of there profits to a fund to help addicts Make the legal age to enter a casino 21. stop them from credit checking and providing people with credit. Seems extreme but you should take a look at the suicide figures for gambling addicts Also the amount of criminality it generates.
Gotta say, put on the big boy pants. Be responsible. Yep agree with the age of 21. Ripping off kids is never right.
But nobody can protect people (adults) from themselves. Live and learn. You have a problem, fix it. Get help.
Making rules for everyone to follow, just to protect the ones who can't control themselves, is not an option in my free world. I guess it's a personal belief, in how much freedom humans can handle.
It's a sever loss of freedom in my eyes.
BTW....I don't gamble, other than some friendly poker games, with family. But I would like to retain the right to do so, if I wish.
Gotta say, put on the big boy pants. Be responsible. Yep agree with the age of 21. Ripping off kids is never right.
But nobody can protect people (adults) from themselves. Live and learn. You have a problem, fix it. Get help.
Making rules for everyone to follow, just to protect the ones who can't control themselves, is not an option in my free world. I guess it's a personal belief, in how much freedom humans can handle.
It's a sever loss of freedom in my eyes.
BTW....I don't gamble, other than some friendly poker games, with family. But I would like to retain the right to do so, if I wish.
Murphy/Peally I agree with some of your points you guys made If a adult wishes to gamble then its his decision and that's his choice. (no issues with that) My point is the casino's are using every underhanded trick in the book You should go to a GA forum page, I have never gambled in the same way they have I speculated in property And got wiped out doing so, I never blamed anybody but my self, even though I was given bad financial advice from My Bank. the stories I read on GA the people seemed like they were junkies they wanted to stop but couldn't that may sound like BS to anybody not addicted. I read one story from a girl who said she had been a junkie before Becoming a compulsive gambler. She stated it was easier to quit drugs then to give up gambling. There are millions of addicts in the USA alone check the link. Governments protect people from drugs. All I am saying is they should do all they can to protect people from the scourge of gambling as well.
Casinos and online gambling have no societal benefit whatsoever. They do tend to indirectly promote corruption and crime. I've flown a few casino owners in my lifetime and none of them were likeable. They acted like billionaire trailer trash. In other words it's a hideous industry run by mostly hideous people. But they wield immense political power globally and I don't see the industry heading anywhere but toward further expansion.
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,389
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Originally Posted By: Smokin_Hole
Casinos and online gambling have no societal benefit whatsoever.
State governments love them though since they take roughly about 30% of all casino revenue.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Not sure how it works in the United states but in the UK and most of Europe the online casino's pay very little in the way of taxes. most of them a registered in Malta or the channel islands to avoid paying taxes. But I bet (pun) they make a lot of political donations because nobody is holing them accountable for there lack Of contributions.
The concept of gambling could in theory be expanded to include such broad things as how everyone lives their lives daily. So much of what people do is a form of risk management, risk calculation, spending time and money now hoping that an investment pays off later. One example is spending the money to further one's education or going to trade school, someone else raised buying stock in a company. These are forms of gambling, but not quite the same type of gambling as Vegas gambling, where generally you have little involvement in the outcome (through the dice, spin the wheel, then you watch what happens). Certain games offer more or less better odds, but there is a different effect on the psychology.
It's probably the immediate gratification or risk that people see. That's what makes a gambling 'addict' different than someone who plays the stock market. The gambler at the craps table (which is a fun social game- the more players, the more fun it gets, potentially the most psychologically rewarding game when you have hot shooters, watch how players at the table just get mesmerized and really into it) who can't leave is operating from a different mindset. These are people who are riding on the thrills of both the high and the lows, this tends to be a different phenomenon, because it no longer is about the money- the money might be vanishing or it might be piling up, a gambling addiction doesn't necessarily care which is the case, that's what makes it so apparent.
This also goes to explain how people are different and have different vices, why one man has a hard time understanding another man's addiction- whether these are chemical dependencies or psychological habits, people are wired differently and get rewards differently. There are people who like to curl up alone with a book, there are people who like to watch golf, there are people who like gambling, there are people who like race car driving. The two friends I have who I would consider to have moderate gambling habits (meaning they gamble a few times a week online and make several trips to Vegas every year) are also smokers and don't function well without a cup of coffee every morning. There's probably a correlation to that type of chemistry going on with these people. When they are gambling, they tend to put off everything else- food, sleep, entertainment, interaction with their friends, but not the coffee and cigarettes, which keep them going all night.
I don't have the money to throw away and I prefer to have something to show for if I'm dropping hundreds of dollars. Same reason why I don't go out drinking, just a waste of money. Feel bad, but these are choices. Like when people get addicted to alcohol or cigs, easiest thing was to never start to begin with.
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Depends on how much one gambles and the comps the casino is offering.
We did the cost analysis of a vacation trip to Boston or NYC versus the same time spent in Vegas. Turns out it's a wash; the money just gets spent differently if one sets spending limits from the outset.
The funny thing is that I tought my son probabilities for school using craps as my example, and he got it right away - including understanding what are the sucker bets.
I also made a deal with him a long time ago that if he defers drinking and smoking until he is 21, I will carry him to Vegas and buy him his first shot, lend him a cigarette (which should be fun - which will make him puke first?), and teach him how to gamble. He's stuck to it, so I'll definately follow through. However, he's been raised to think of all three as not such a big deal in and of themselves, but rather useful symbols in the rite of passage that needn't be dwelled on.
Plus a long set of reminders that he carries inside him the genes of addiction, particularly alcoholism, and he should be actively aware of how much and how often he drinks, looking for any sort of pattern of regularity (and then knock it off). Otherwise one winds up in meetings where everyone tells each other they're good people at heart but that they're not allowed to drink anymore. Meetings! Anything that requires one to go to meetings where one is forced to share their feelings can't be good.
The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.
The psychology of addiction is a very complex Most of us can overindulge. be it food of alcohol etc But addictive personality's are compelled to keep going even though they know its doing them harm. I doesn't seem to mater what your IQ is a lot of the stories I read were from professional people With good jobs family's, But one thing I did notice a lot of them stated they suffered from depression Prior to there addictive practices. I also read there may be a link with certain type of medications prescribed to them.
Professional gamblers sort of throw the system out of whack- they don't play slots (which are fools' bets- they appeal to novice gamblers because there either is no skill involved, or because it lacks the social conventions required to interact with dealers and other players, which might be intimidating) , they don't play roulette, they typically play cards. They hedge a little by relying on stock rules of thumb which might be the best possible bet available to a player in a given situation, and they might look for any other competitive edge- memorizing cards. There is fine line here of what 'cheating' is and a legitimate skill, casinos will argue things like memorizing defects or differences in cards isn't really playing the game as it was meant to be played (that is, in an ideal world), it's more of a hack, in today's cliche, over used jargon.
For the rest of us, playing in casinos and actually winning money is sort of a bonus- you don't really expect to always win. Even if you are a skilled player in games that actually require some input and skill, the odds are never 'fair' odds, that is, the pay schedule doesn't correlate with the true odds. There are some bets in craps that are more or less the exception and are closer to true odds, but generally, even an exceptional player can expect a slow and steady bleed- you might win 75 cents for every dollar you play, over the long haul, the house wins. But that's also why the casinos offer 'generous' amenities such as free drinks or dinners or shows or comped rooms if you like to gamble a lot and have earned club points or something, it's all part of the experience rather than simply throwing money away. If you can appreciate that, if you're the kind of person who likes to gamble at resort casinos and likes the whole experience, you're fine if you have limits and strategies that generally let you walk away after winning or losing enough.
Personally, the concept of odds and making future predictions off of probability is interesting to me because of the debate between determinism and free will. People often assume that there is such a thing as free will, that assumption often doesn't go challenged in most every day situations, but when you examine the issue, it's not so cut and dried, and certainly has never been proven. Reality might after all be determined from series of mathematical conclusions from the past leading to the future, a causal chain of events like dominoes knocking one over another that you cannot escape- the illusion of choice and free will exist because we are not omniscient beings who see the outcome beforehand, which is overdetermined, if you like.
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Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Personally, the concept of odds and making future predictions off of probability is interesting to me because of the debate between determinism and free will. People often assume that there is such a thing as free will, that assumption often doesn't go challenged in most every day situations, but when you examine the issue, it's not so cut and dried, and certainly has never been proven. Reality might after all be determined from series of mathematical conclusions from the past leading to the future, a causal chain of events like dominoes knocking one over another that you cannot escape- the illusion of choice and free will exist because we are not omniscient beings who see the outcome beforehand, which is overdetermined, if you like.
But if you happen to be the Kwisatz Haderach you can overcome that cycle.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Had to look that reference up- I would like to hear your summary on it, if you don't mind. Would you happen to know what sort of inspirations Dune might be based on? The look of the 1980s film had a 19th-early 20th Century colonial European aesthetic with costumes and affect, political structures, etc.
The concept of course exists in Indian philosophy, kharma isn't simply expecting to be paid in kind for your actions, but it actually supposes a description on causality. Without throwing genetic predispositions into the pot, since the day you were born, life experiences have shaped you as an individual and affect personality, conscience, decision making and so forth. So someone with heavy kharma has a lot to struggle with.
A fried of mine died the last week, he was addicted, not only to gambling, but also to drugs. An addiction brings other addictions to our lives. Take care of yourself and your family, we live in a very dirty world.
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
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Originally Posted by Ajay
Hey look, it's one of Panzers friends
Are you inferring that I'm a bot as well? At least accuse me of something fancy like being the cylon god.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Kind of topical though. I have noticed that during the lockdown a very large percentage of the adds I get on YouTube have been for online gambling.
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Look for me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or Tic Toc...or anywhere you may frequent, besides SimHq, on the Global Scam Net. Aka, the internet. I am not there, never have been or ever will be, but the fruitless search may be more gratifying then the "content" you might otherwise be exposed to.
"There's a sucker born every minute." Phineas Taylor Barnum
We needs to simonize our watches so we can begins our instigation into dis matter as a team.
Maybe we can get twitter security to help?
After all, they try to follow me around just for visiting this site... unsucessfully of course.
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Look for me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or Tic Toc...or anywhere you may frequent, besides SimHq, on the Global Scam Net. Aka, the internet. I am not there, never have been or ever will be, but the fruitless search may be more gratifying then the "content" you might otherwise be exposed to.
"There's a sucker born every minute." Phineas Taylor Barnum
Gambled once in my life. Friend was one of the managers at an Indian Casino. She gave me a card with like $20 starter amount. Told me I couldn't cash it out, I'd have to gamble it. I went in hit the "nickel slot machine". Well, $19 and change into it, I hit a $25 win. Walked out with the $25 and never looked back.
Left there after she exposed corruption that was going on between the casino and a few members of the tribal counsel.
Keep Calm and Check Canopy
There are no ex-paratroopers, only ones off jump status
Looking back over thread...always interesting to see old usernames long gone.
I'm in casinos all the time (well I was before the virus), been on many cruise ships, have a nice poker kit. Yet I've never gambled in my life that I recall (including never having played the lottery). No moral objections, just no interest. I wouldn't turn down a freebie, however.
My wife's aunt and uncle did it right, IMO. Once a week they'd gamble $50.00 on a Casino boat (Baton Rouge had two on the Mississippi River). IIRC, $50.00 was the minimum for a free buffet (known to be very good). They thought it was worth dinner and a couple of hours of entertainment (mostly slots, I think). And when they occasionally won something, they still stopped at their original $50.00. Smart.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Ages ago when I was a young fresh lad in Hong Kong me and a few mates would purchase return tickets to Macau, grab our passport, the equivalent of USD60~100 in cash each and off we would go for 24 hrs. Never ever took our credit cards or cheque books with us, just the return tickets...
Our Macau sorties would usually have us ending up early at the ferry pier Macau side for our trip back, nothing to do, hungry, tired, sharing a pack of Marlboro and terribly short of cash Rarely, one of us would get back with more cash in his pockets than he had when we left Hong Kong. Never a life-changer, but always fun.
It’s all about blocking access to additional cash and, yes, keeping your kidneys where they naturally belong !
Oops, the thread is about online gambling, oh well, much more dangerous I reckon.
Cheers, Slug
Last edited by Sluggish Controls; 07/23/2007:37 AM. Reason: Online topic
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Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
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Originally Posted by Mad Max
Gambling is too much like giving cash away. I've never been into that.
Just think of what would happen in places like Monaco and Las Vegas if hardly anyone gambled? They would have to find another industry to rely on and fast.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
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Originally Posted by MarkG
Looking back over thread...always interesting to see old usernames long gone.
.
Yup, same here. I've been on SimHQ for 19 years now so it's always fascinating for me to see all the people who have come and gone. The ones who have passed away are especially poignant.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
I totally agree with you! It is very easy to start to gamble, have fun and spend a lot of money on it and it is very hard to quit gambling or to learn ho to have more self control in order to count your money and to understand when you need to stop or to go on. Anyway, I'll better play games like poker or blackjack. There, I have much more chances to win because everything depends on my skill and not on my luck. Usually, I like to play on Link deleted and I suggest everybody to try it as well, because it is worth.
Poster is permanently banned. Determined to be a bot.
I'd rather invest in the stock market than take my chances at a multi-shoe dealer table where the odds are manipulated to be in the house favor. Or a roulette wheel that could be magnetized, or electronic slots that are artificially manipulated, legally, by the algorithm flags inside and their placement in the casino.
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
Andrew Avery, now what made you resurrect an old thread ?
Just asking to see that you are not a bot.
I also found the location of Corinth, Greece to be odd. We all know we don't have any Greek members on SimHQ!
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
In recent times, we've seen a lot of these kind of users.
YvonneGrant, AngelaTurner, henrywalts, Office Work Design, grabdexter, Dasko, DVermont... Most have something to sell, but the intriguing ones dig up old threads for no apparent reason and vanish as quick as they came... Would love to see if this is AI or not
In recent times, we've seen a lot of these kind of users.
YvonneGrant, AngelaTurner, henrywalts, Office Work Design, grabdexter, Dasko, DVermont... Most have something to sell, but the intriguing ones dig up old threads for no apparent reason and vanish as quick as they came... Would love to see if this is AI or not
Ok. That’s good and welcome aboard. Lots of good sub-forums and people to help you with issues. Community Hall is for anything you want to talk about except leave politics and controversy out of it. There is a sub-forum for that at the bottom of the list.
We’ve just been getting a number of bots coming on so we try to be sure.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
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Originally Posted by Andrew Avery
Originally Posted by oldgrognard
Andrew Avery, now what made you resurrect an old thread ?
Just asking to see that you are not a bot.
Im here, I am not a bot and I did't see the year of this thread haha, sorry man!
So what was it about this thread that piqued your interest enough to revive it? I mean, you must have had to click through quite a few pages of threads in order to have discovered it right?
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
You're right there PM ,,must have been totally bored to dig up a six year old thread..I tend not to read too much of threads that are over a month or so old they just tend to be repetitious.with not much new content
I totally agree with you! It is very easy to start to gamble, have fun and spend a lot of money on it and it is very hard to quit gambling or to learn ho to have more self control in order to count your money and to understand when you need to stop or to go on. Anyway, I'll better play games like poker or blackjack. There, I have much more chances to win because everything depends on my skill and not on my luck. Usually, I like to play on ********* and I suggest everybody to try it as well, because it is worth.
I totally agree with you! It is very easy to start to gamble, have fun and spend a lot of money on it and it is very hard to quit gambling or to learn ho to have more self control in order to count your money and to understand when you need to stop or to go on. Anyway, I'll better play games like poker or blackjack. There, I have much more chances to win because everything depends on my skill and not on my luck. Usually, I like to play on ****** and I suggest everybody to try it as well, because it is worth.
To be fair, it was another member who 'dug it up'. This thread was created and ran its course in 2014, but was necro'd in July of this year. So not a lot of 'digging' was required to find it this time.
I've never understood the problem people have with thread necromancing. Sure, if it discusses a game mechanic or something else that has been invalidated through changes or new information I can see why we would want to avoid confusion. But in most cases, if it's relevant to the discussion it's relevant to the discussion, regardless of how long ago it was last replied to.
I have a thread in the RTS forum about Europa Universalis IV. I started it in 2014. I went two years at one point without adding to it, then when I picked the game up again I used it once again. I don't see the problem and I prefer that over starting a new thread. For me it's a better resource than splitting it in multiples over some arbitrary line in the sand that says it's too old.
No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
The problem I have with this oxygen thief is that having been challenged by mods, he went on to modify his post to include an incitement to gamble and a link to an online casino. Scum bag of the highest possible order.
And the edit isn't just the link snuck in... it is a wholesale reversal of the original text, and the whole point, purpose and tone of this thread.
to tell you the truth, all those posters are okay if they post something useful on the right topic, I mean, useful information is always needed, especially if it is relevant. Maybe he'd revived such an old thread, but he eventually gathered here so many people discussing this issue) By the way, speaking of a destroying power of gambling, I'd mention that it's destroying unless you can find ways to earn big money on it. The first and the most important thing you need to do is to find a trustworthy casino or even a whole service with casinos. If you did so, it's really unlikely that you won't win. I personally discovered Website deleted for my own. It's my hobby, no more, no big money, no big deal, just spending time with pleasure.
Poster is being totally banned for promoting the same gambling website previously deleted. Two posters have used this gambling website link. Neither has responded to my PMs to determine if they are bots.
he eventually gathered here so many people discussing this issue)
Where is the issue being discussed? The discussion is spammers wanting to sell dodgy stuff and digging up old threads for it.
By the way, how did you discover this site?
it is the issue. why would you be concerned how i had discovered this forum? I just found it interesting when I was looking for something on the buy/sell section...
JuliaLambert, please understand hat we are getting bot attacks and the members are just trying to determine who is legitimate and not. Don’t take it personal.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
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You've been sussed out JuliaLambert. Just drop it.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
You're totally right, gambling ca be very harmful for everybody, but if you gamble for another purpose than money, you will not lose anything. On the one hand, I agree with you that it destroys people lives, but in my opinion it is their fault. On the other hand, I can't understand those people that are going to casinos or playing online and hoping for big money, they lose their self control and with it, they lose their money. I am playing on link deleted aproximatively for 3 years and I never had any problems with gambling, how you can explain this?
And now the pr1ck has done it again on the last post he made. Exactly the same dodgy carp as before. Adverts encouraging gambling - of the 'free sample' variety when online gambling is well known to be very damaging to many people, and he knows what he does is #%&*$# because he sneaks it in behind a post hoc edit. Hoping that scrutiny will pass by.
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,389PanzerMeyer
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Originally Posted by Chucky
Here we go...
Yup. It's almost comical and not as entertaining (in a train wreck sort of way) as reading posts from NFB.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
I find it disturbing that a post about gambling ruining peoples lives is used as an opportunity for scummy individuals to advertise online betting by sneaking gambling links into their seemingly 'innocent' posts some time after the original post like JoanGreen (and others before).
Personally I'd lock this thread but that decision is not up to me.
There needs to be some sort of "are you a bot" test for new accounts as well.
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
Covid-19 "precautions" have destroyed way more lives than ANY kind of gambling ever has.
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Look for me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or Tic Toc...or anywhere you may frequent, besides SimHq, on the Global Scam Net. Aka, the internet. I am not there, never have been or ever will be, but the fruitless search may be more gratifying then the "content" you might otherwise be exposed to.
"There's a sucker born every minute." Phineas Taylor Barnum