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#4012983 - 09/22/14 02:58 PM Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaign for BoS?  
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HeinKill Offline
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If you havent seen it, here is the lowdown:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4016761/Re:_Poll:_What_do_you_think_of#Post4016761

Or watch the 40 minute video here:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=164840

Be sure to watch the full video. And recognise this is what it is, it seems too late/pointless to request major changes.

My bias up front...

I like it.

As a founder I don't have to grind to earn the aircraft and if you buy the premium package you won't either. I am also fine with the fact if you pay less, you can still earn the same aircraft set by success within the game.

LIKES

First, I like the fact they have given this some serious thought and effort in an era when the single player game is unprioritised by many other devs (eg DCS P51/FW190/Bf109)

I find the 'advanced quick mission generator' approach very refreshing:

- different missions generated randomly on the fly, so high replayability for each phase of the battle, and if you go back and replay the campaign
- points needed to unlock campaign phases, but they don't look too impossible to achieve (2 kills per mission? time will tell! I will be the first to begin whining if I am required to kill eg ten enemy aircraft plus ten tanks in each phase to earn enough points to finish a phase. Or if the game only counts my points per mission, not my total points
- Earning mods through in game actions rather than having to buy them separately as 'mod packs' - when I have already paid 90USD for a game it would drive me crazy to have to pay more for mods
- ability to fly multiple aircraft and missions in each phase IF I want, or to focus on one particular aircraft type for the whole campaign
- I like the LONG/SHORT mission option: I am absolutely a short mission fan, very rarely have the chance/time for hour long missions

DISLIKES/UNCERTAINTIES

- I would not like it if I need to 'unlock' basic weapon loadouts for each machine eg bombs for my Ju87 or IL2 which were standard issue. I am fine that you would need to unlock the tank killer cannon, but not if you have to unlock what was a standard weapon load for a machine.
- Don't care about having to unlock skins (though why not sell them separately and earn a little money on them for those who want that kind of thing?). Not sure though how user skins will fit in game and be easy to use?
- Mission builder restrictions: I know the RoF mission builder interface has a bad reputation and the same interface is planned for BoS, but why not make it open access and let the community do what it wants? Don't get the restricted access approach to this important community building element.
- Understnad the gameplay mechanics reason for limiting realism to NORMAL or FULL, but of course it would be better to have a fully customisable realism interface. DESASTERSOFT could do it for Cliffs of Dover, with every realism option impacting how many points you could achieve per mission toward winning medals and promotions, so why should it be so hard for 777.

And PS, yes I know I did not give an option called 'undecided'.



Single Player Campaign poll
multiple choice
Votes accepted starting: 09/22/14 02:37 PM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

[Linked Image]
#4012989 - 09/22/14 03:05 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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komemiute Offline
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I maybe not *LOVE* it, but I'm really positive to this different approach. Thumbs up.


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#4013035 - 09/22/14 05:09 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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HogDriver Offline
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I've been complaining for years that devs need to add a bit more "game" back into combat flight sims, but this isn't what I had in mind.

I'll wait to try it before I really knock it, but I'm still pretty disappointed.


I refuse to buy a flight sim that I have no interest in playing, on the off chance that MAYBE someday they'll make the one I really want to play.

#4013072 - 09/22/14 06:28 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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Leaf85 Offline
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I can't say I love it (or hate it, for that matter) until I can use it. I do like the concept they are using for mission generation. Not keen on the unlocks idea but I don't dislike it either-- too many other games seem to have gone that route to be overly fussed-- I'd rather it than idiotic Steam 'achievements'.

I will add I would like to see 1C/777 change their minds on the 'normal' vs. 'hard' selection to allow for more choice-- I like to fly with aspects of CEM (radiators, pitch etc, but I also like a pre-warmed up engine for example) and a few visual aids (map icons, no labels for example) even if 'custom' mode only allowed for 1x XP, or better that there was some formula for certain tic boxes having point values combining to be a multiplier...so my custom might be 1.25x XP where someone elses might be 1.35 or something like that. [./blather]

Last edited by Leaf85; 09/22/14 06:36 PM.

Currently dabbling in;
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#4013081 - 09/22/14 06:40 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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2005AD Offline
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Reminds me of Birds of Prey. I hated the SP aspect where I had to kill 8 bombers to progress which was impossible to do without unlimited ammo.

This reeks of arcade BS and does not appeal to me in the remotest. Evn though the RoF career mode has serious drawbacks, such as non-persistent world. For example a bridge/factory you destroyed in one mission would be back the very next. At least it was well received by the community and with some tweaks to make it a persistent world it would have been awesome. So why 777 felt they needed to re-invent the wheel and go with the BoP Arcade mode is unfathomable.

#4013096 - 09/22/14 07:31 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Quote:
- I would not like it if I need to 'unlock' basic weapon loadouts for each machine eg bombs for my Ju87 or IL2 which were standard issue. I am fine that you would need to unlock the tank killer cannon, but not if you have to unlock what was a standard weapon load for a machine.


As "premium" owner you dont need unlock planes, but will need unlock some armament types, planes modifications and special skins, like "standard" owners.



All planes have his basic armament available, like MG/cannon and ammo for fighters and light/medium bombs for bombers, what is need unlock is bombs/rockets/gun packs for fighters, heavy bombs for bombers, these "uber" things.

So, initially one can live without 1800KG bombs or BK-37 cannon for Stuka, like the Luftwave did during all Stalingrad Battle. wink

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-7693-0-31935600-1390557628.jpg

Sokol1




#4013108 - 09/22/14 07:45 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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Peally Offline
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I'm indifferent, I'll enjoy it regardless.

I really did enjoy RoF's career mode though, something like that in BoS would certainly be welcome.


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4013166 - 09/22/14 09:49 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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lokitexas Offline
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Hate it, love Lowengrins DCG for IL2. Love TEF for CLoD.

#4013203 - 09/23/14 12:51 AM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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Airdrop01 Offline
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Balls.

I swear....as usual....I shouldn't have bought. Offline players get the shaft.


"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matthew 5:11

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#4013216 - 09/23/14 01:47 AM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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FlyingMonkey Offline
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I really disliked the Wings of Prey/Birds of Prey approach with a set number of kills to continue on to the next session, so the general approach here makes me very worried.
I am sick of the grind/unlock model - I could already barely stand it in other genres, but seeing it invade the sim genre frustrates me to no end.
I also happen to love complex mission editors - I use them to generate memorable missions to play in coop with my friends. Any restriction here is a no go for our group of players.
So, all in all I feel quite disappointed and would gladly support another WW2 sim - if there was one...

#4013283 - 09/23/14 08:05 AM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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Para_Bellum Offline
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I'm not a big fan of the "grind" campaign with unlocks, all wrapped up in a random QB interface. I really hope for a "classic" squadron-based campaign.

Having said that, I withhold final judgement until I've actually played the campaign. Might still be fun, even if not exactly what I had wished for.


"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"

Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm

#4013287 - 09/23/14 08:44 AM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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darkarrow Offline
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I don't like the preset mission goals like shooting down 2 aircraft per mission. We have a very realistic simulation of flight/aircraft and you get totally unrealistic demands for mission completion. Most pilots would be lucky to shoot 2 aircraft per the whole operation and the only condition to continue was to be brave, to survive, not get captured and not damage your equipment by your own faults.

#4013288 - 09/23/14 08:49 AM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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komemiute Offline
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Oh yeah, that would make a good campaign...

Commander:
Shoot down two planes.

Pilot:
Ehrm, in the mission?

Commander:
Nono, just- two- planes. In your whole career.
And... Just be safe, okay? It's dangerous out there... there's people with guns!

*Man Hug*

neaner


Click to reveal..
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!"
Para_Bellum

"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..."
Ice

"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!"
MigBuster

"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands."
Sauron
#4013332 - 09/23/14 12:34 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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Rivet Offline
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It appears I have voted with the majority so far, which as a predominately single player is not surprising.

The experience points & unlocks route seems very arcade to me. I could go on about the hopes of a dynamic story driven campaign but it seems pointless as the devs appear to have this silly arcade style set in stone. It really seems to me that the "SP Campaign" has been very much a last minute after thought. A few cobbled up missions in fancy packaging (i.e. the intro vids).

As Airdrop01 says, offline players get shafted................. again!

I've had it with pre orders and just buying into an idea that seems so fashionable these days. The benefits of early access just don't compensate for the disappointment. I'm pretty much no longer interested in this game now........... and it isn't even released yet!

Oh and what's with only "Normal" or "Expert" settings in the campaign. What happened to "Custom?" Oh, wait, we still have it in the QMB so that's all right. Maybe the devs forgot to remove that option from there? The so-called "Campaign" is supposed to be the SP aspect of the game so what difference does it make to allow custom settings so we can play it how we PREFER to play it? Maybe it has something to do with infernal leader boards or some cr@p like that.

$90 for a combat flight game with a QMB? Oh, please duh

Last edited by Rivet; 09/23/14 12:41 PM.
#4013378 - 09/23/14 02:12 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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bisher Offline
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I agree if there is to be a grind it should be a time flown grind not an aircraft killed grind. That way I can go up on a mission see nobody, return to base no shots fired and at least get some credit for time flown.

And each mission flown is another day in the calendar, more time to grind to the next weapon platform which everyone in the squadron will eventually get, aces and green horns alike.

#4013390 - 09/23/14 02:43 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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Desode Offline
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Well, I'm NOT A Happy CAMPER !
I highly doubt I will even play the campaign now.
The main reason I say that is because of the only "Normal" or "Expert" settings in the campaign !

I won't play anything on Normal But I also won't wait for a Engine to warm up in order to fly a campaign mission.
I just don't have the time for that,, I am a grown adult with a life and while I will do it once in a blue moon,, it's not something I do in a flight Sim more then 1% of the time. I just don't have the time to do it.

Plus, being forced to shoot down so many planes in a mission or not be able to continue is just Garbage.
It Kills the Sim factor of the campaign and I must admit I am SHOCKED by them doing this.
Having No Custom settings for the campaign just kills This game for me.

I don't mind having to Suffer with a few unlocks (Though I Hate itwith all my heart) ,,especially since I have Prem and I don't have to unlock any planes. Heck !,,, I was overjoyed when I heard that change.
Now I'm pretty much back in the dumps about the entire thing.

In All honesty there comes a point when if a Sim costs this much money , Which I don't mind paying,, It SURE as Heck better have the Options that Sime have Always had so that I can play it how I want too play it !
Not having those options there, makes me really regret spending the money on this one.

At this point all I can do is HOPE and Pray that there are some Very good user made campaigns that let me have Lots of single player material that allows me to play as I wish too !!

This Campaign issue would be a Mute issue for me if they had just made a FMB Semi based on the Il2 1946 FMB layout !

I would have thought that that would have been a NO BRAINER.. I don't understand why No one can Follow the Formula that made Il2 1946 so Great .. For the Love of God ,, thats the reason its Still Played and Still Sold and Still bringing in Money ! It doesn't take much to understand that.

Heck I would have payed $200 for this one if it had that !

Those are my gripes,, I will of course try it,, Probably the first mission and then that will be it.

I leave with this thought,,,,
I wonder How many Arcade Players Were Founders ? and How many people who gave money to support this Sim from the start want any of these arcade campaign aspects ?

Something tells me that this is more of IC's side of the joint venture doing this ,,, All they care about is money and they will take a Crap on Anyone if they think they can get more money..
There is nothing wrong with making money ! But SADLY !! they don't seem smart enough to create a new Il2 with the formula that will make them Money for a Long Long time to come.

I know this post is a hard slam , but thats currently how I feel,, I reserve the rest of a RANT until after the product is 100% finished.

Sincerely Desode


Forumrunners.com When you crave teamwork at the Highest Level ! Were waiting for you !


#4013444 - 09/23/14 03:53 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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3instein Offline
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I must admit that I kinda agree with most of what has been said,while the unlocks are not the No1 issue for me,the way the sim/game has headed of late has left me a tad disappointed.

I really can't fathom out why they have removed the custom settings,for as going from what most people have said everybody plays different and would like to play the way they want,but it's their game/sim so will just have to learn to live with it.

For me it is the inclusion of the very gamey looking hud and "technochat" icons that just look so very out of place for what is meant to be a WW2 sim,this in itself seems at odds of what most folk assumed it was going to be.

For what has been a great experience following this title and what was shaping up to be a true successor,the late inclusions have been a large step backward IMO.

Mick. smile


"An appeaser is someone who feeds the crocodile hoping he will be eaten last"

Winston Churchill

#4013464 - 09/23/14 04:28 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: HeinKill]  
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Ami7b5 Offline
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Sadly I have to agree with Desode on many points...


If you're close, get closer.
#4013471 - 09/23/14 04:39 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: Ami7b5]  
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Taxman Offline
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Thanks Desode, my thoughts have been along the same line as yours. sigh


Taxes are my part time profession, flying is my passion.
#4013472 - 09/23/14 04:40 PM Re: Poll: What do you think of the Single Player Campaing for BoS? [Re: Desode]  
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KrustyvonKlown Offline
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Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Desode
Well, I'm NOT A Happy CAMPER !
I highly doubt I will even play the campaign now.
The main reason I say that is because of the only "Normal" or "Expert" settings in the campaign !

I won't play anything on Normal But I also won't wait for a Engine to warm up in order to fly a campaign mission.
I just don't have the time for that,, I am a grown adult with a life and while I will do it once in a blue moon,, it's not something I do in a flight Sim more then 1% of the time. I just don't have the time to do it.


I'm pretty sure that the engine is pre-warmed in expert mode.

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