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#4011444 - 09/18/14 05:35 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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Also, reading Jedi's other comments about it just being an underpowered PC is not really true either. About half the steam machines shown by OEM's this year were probably more beefier than you might expect, as in compare your own PC with some of these:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/valve-steam-machines-specs/

I personally don't think it will work out, but it is an interesting niche, so you never know. If Half-Life 3 runs 10fps better on a steambox at launch, or DOTA has some gameplay edge then maybe, but Valve have already said they are not interested in doing that. Remember, they are a shop and they want you to buy games, they don't sell steam machines or see themselves as a hardware outfit.

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#4011466 - 09/18/14 06:21 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: FearlessFrog]  
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Cold_Gambler Offline
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Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog


The missing bit in Jedi's understanding is that it is aimed at people with $3000 PC's in a separate room too. It allows you to spend a small amount and then have access to that large PC game collection on your biggest screen and couch, but without having to move that enormous noisy water-cooled heavy PC out of the office. smile


This may be the exact nub of the problem. These steam boxes (just like mini-PCs) are going to struggle with the newer/more demanding games in one's Steam Library; they're not going to play them like the 3K PC can.

Edit: Just had a look at that link. IMO, the boxes that can handle latest/greatest ARE PCs and they are priced and roughly the dimensions of a slim-build PC.

Don't get me wrong, I actually think it's great that manufacturers are coming out with these. It's a good thing for the industry and as I noted earlier I'm replacing my HTPC with something similar to the smaller/cheaper offerings... but I do have my doubts that these are going to take off. Being called a "Steam-box" is actually an unfortunate term because it makes them seem more limited in functionality than they actually are.

Last edited by Cold_Gambler; 09/18/14 06:31 PM.

looks very modernishy-phoney-windows eighty-tabletty like

Asus P8P67 Pro Rev. 3.0 // i5 2500k @4.3 GHz with Noctua NH-D14 // nvidia gtx 780 // 8 GB DDR3 1600 //Win7 home 64 bit //450 GB VelociRaptor //Recon3D Champion
#4011470 - 09/18/14 06:30 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: Cold_Gambler]  
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Originally Posted By: Cold_Gambler
Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog


The missing bit in Jedi's understanding is that it is aimed at people with $3000 PC's in a separate room too. It allows you to spend a small amount and then have access to that large PC game collection on your biggest screen and couch, but without having to move that enormous noisy water-cooled heavy PC out of the office. smile


This may be the exact nub of the problem. These steam boxes (just like mini-PCs) are going to struggle with the newer/more demanding games in one's Steam Library; they're not going to play them like the 3K PC can.


I think the confusing bit CB, is yes they can (as that's what I do even today with this beta stuff). The Steam client app (this goes for the Windows Steam client too btw, it's not just SteamOS that can do this) give the ability to 'stream' from a powerful host PC to another (less powerful) PC. It sends back/forth the video/sound/controller (from USB inputs) like the old client/server days. The AMD/Nvidia cards have powerful hardware encoder/decoders on them that allow this. Think of it like a version of the weird OnLive thing, but on your local network and for free. Like 'remote desktop' but a protocol and bits of hardware drivers dedicated for gaming. The overhead is surprisingly minimal, mainly because of the special network protocol and the hardware in the graphics cards doing the encoding bits.

So the steambox can by cheap and puny and just stream (plus be a nice Plex / Movies dumb box), or be more beefy and play native and be booted up in Windows if needed too.

If you have an old laptop that can't run the latest games then it's fun just to use it as a steam 'target' for streaming today, i.e. use its HDMI output to a TV, it works best on wired ethernet (unless its the latest wireless tech) and then you can play your Steam titles (plus outside Steam games, just 'add to library') and away you go. Playing 'Ultra' level skyrim at 1080p/60fps from a celeron is possible - weird but true, as the 'host PC' is the thing doing the heavy lifting. It's VT220 all over again smile

EDIT: Saw your edit, and agree - if the OEM's price these too high then they kill it pretty quick. It's the likeliest outcome I think.

Last edited by FearlessFrog; 09/18/14 06:36 PM.
#4011472 - 09/18/14 06:35 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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Oh wow! My mistake!

I did not understand that you could stream from your main rig to the living room TV through the mini-PC.

OK, I'm going to have to re-evaluate the concept, 'cause that's actually pretty cool...


looks very modernishy-phoney-windows eighty-tabletty like

Asus P8P67 Pro Rev. 3.0 // i5 2500k @4.3 GHz with Noctua NH-D14 // nvidia gtx 780 // 8 GB DDR3 1600 //Win7 home 64 bit //450 GB VelociRaptor //Recon3D Champion
#4011475 - 09/18/14 06:39 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: Cold_Gambler]  
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Originally Posted By: Cold_Gambler
Oh wow! My mistake!

I did not understand that you could stream from your main rig to the living room TV through the mini-PC.

OK, I'm going to have to re-evaluate the concept, 'cause that's actually pretty cool...


It is interesting to try it, info here:

http://store.steampowered.com/streaming/

Again, for me I had good ethernet cabling in the house already so that helps a lot. You don't need SteamOS, you just need Steam on both Windows boxes and rather than 'Install' on the puny one you get a 'Stream' button - so basically it launches the games as if it were local. It's kinda freaky but it works (and doesn't cost anything). Adding outside apps to steam allows it to work too, i.e. I play the FIFA 15 PC version from Origin on it ok.

#4011485 - 09/18/14 07:07 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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Cold_Gambler Offline
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OK, FF, I'm definitely going to give it a shot since I already have everything set up at home!


looks very modernishy-phoney-windows eighty-tabletty like

Asus P8P67 Pro Rev. 3.0 // i5 2500k @4.3 GHz with Noctua NH-D14 // nvidia gtx 780 // 8 GB DDR3 1600 //Win7 home 64 bit //450 GB VelociRaptor //Recon3D Champion
#4011526 - 09/18/14 09:20 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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I have decided to air on the side of caution and buy a PC instead.
I really like the concept of the steam machine but there are to many variables the biggest one for me was support.
When I seen this machine it seems to have to best of both worlds and to be honest it looks cool and has a decent spec (link) http://www.dell.com/ie/p/alienware-x51-r2/pd?oc=d00ar241&model_id=alienware-x51-r2
I am going to wait to the January sales another month wont kill me I have waited this long.
Really appreciate your comments thank for the help.

Last edited by marko1231123; 09/18/14 09:21 PM.
#4011752 - 09/19/14 10:21 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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..sooooooo, i can get a steam box or PC! in a small box that has steam os on it and place that in my room with a monitor i can scab out of the cupboard, leave my PC! on my PC ! Master Race desk and lay in bed and play Peggle ? I got 30 metres of ethernet cable sitting idle in my cupboard.. so i can stream Peggle wherever the hell i want to ? ANYWHERE I WANT TO ??

And my PC! won't even get jealous , because she will be still be turned on and ticking over..it's ok baby..it'll be like a little you, not a nasty console... shhhhhhhhhh, calm down, you'll always be my one.


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#4011802 - 09/19/14 02:59 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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I think there is a definite point of diminishing returns here. I never would have the chance to play a game on my main TV as my family is always watching something when I'm using my PC. Either my wife or my kids are using it for that purpose.
That aside, to use it as a 2nd PC/gateway to your main PC is basically the same as spending several hundred dollars for the convenience of not moving your PC physically, which you could do with maybe 30 mins of setup time. Not ideal for the occasional try, but unless you do it daily probably more cost effective.

So my point is at console prices a Steam machine will not be capable of running games that are also on consoles at equivalent levels of detail/performance. You can get one that is, but then you're spending PC prices.

As a PC replacement I think it's a niche. As a console replacement, it is as well. And as a 2nd PC.

Its only hope is that there are enough people in these 3 separate niches combined to make it commercially viable, as no one niche is large enough.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4011826 - 09/19/14 03:31 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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It is fairly niche, but it also means that my son (9yrs old) can play the games in my Steam account in the living room rather than being stuck in my computer room in the basement... so I definitely see the use of it now for my own situation.


looks very modernishy-phoney-windows eighty-tabletty like

Asus P8P67 Pro Rev. 3.0 // i5 2500k @4.3 GHz with Noctua NH-D14 // nvidia gtx 780 // 8 GB DDR3 1600 //Win7 home 64 bit //450 GB VelociRaptor //Recon3D Champion
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