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#4011163 - 09/17/14 11:19 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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Well DCS is windows only, and there's no plans for any Linux port, so your HOTAS is safe away from SteamOS forever I think smile

EDIT: Actually that's sort of not true. I've run DCS through a steambox and steamos. It acts as a 'client' for streaming, so I've used a gaming PC up in an office to 'send' DCS down to the wee steambox (with the sidewinder etc plugged in) and it worked ok. The 'streaming' stuff is pretty neat, but not widely understood or used. You need a wired network, but it's pretty easy to get 60fps/1080p on a target box costing $300, and with the aim to show it through a decent TV / project / sound system via couch.

Last edited by FearlessFrog; 09/17/14 11:22 PM.
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#4011166 - 09/17/14 11:29 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: FearlessFrog]  
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Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog
This topic is confusing, and I think it's because people don't know what a 'Steam box' is. I have a couple built, so here's the summary:

- There is no Valve Steambox console you can buy. They built a few as reference models for hardware testers, but they don't intend on selling them. OEM's like Dell might, which is the idea.

- It's just a PC. Running Linux. SteamOS is a combinations of a desktop UI app made for a TV and some nicer drivers (Linux's Achilles's heel for gaming usually). It runs Linux apps like a PC.




The one he's considering does say Win 8, but no it isn't from Valve. Most won't be, it's more of a minimum recipe than anything else. I'm doubtful about the success of a Linux OS for this too, although it would be nice. If nothing else, it has created a market for the $500 and up gaming pc, and running Windows is a bonus.


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#4011167 - 09/17/14 11:36 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Originally Posted By: Raw Kryptonite
Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog
This topic is confusing, and I think it's because people don't know what a 'Steam box' is. I have a couple built, so here's the summary:

- There is no Valve Steambox console you can buy. They built a few as reference models for hardware testers, but they don't intend on selling them. OEM's like Dell might, which is the idea.

- It's just a PC. Running Linux. SteamOS is a combinations of a desktop UI app made for a TV and some nicer drivers (Linux's Achilles's heel for gaming usually). It runs Linux apps like a PC.




The one he's considering does say Win 8, but no it isn't from Valve. Most won't be, it's more of a minimum recipe than anything else. I'm doubtful about the success of a Linux OS for this too, although it would be nice. If nothing else, it has created a market for the $500 and up gaming pc, and running Windows is a bonus.


I'm fairly sure Valve don't ever want to make or sell hardware, but only do it just to get things going. They'll probably give the controller designs away too, just to avoid making it. I'd also suspect that Dell isn't keen to sell without a Windows license, as that's not a relationship they want to upset.

The Linux gaming is a bit of a chicken and egg market, so my take is that Valve is just trying to build a gaming distro to aim for and (of course) their shop to sell it in. They've got over 1,800 'things' listed in linux now:

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?snr=1_4_4__12&term=#os=linux&sort_order=ASC&page=1

The drivers thing is nice, as they can say 'DOTA runs faster in SteamOS/Linux than it does in Windows due to being a pure gaming OS / drivers set' which is something concrete rather than not using Windows for religious reasons or something.

The streaming thing is the curious factor, as it allows pretty much anything to run into your living room, even if not native Linux. A lot of people just use existing consoles for that (media center etc) but who know, maybe it'll take one day.

#4011180 - 09/18/14 12:18 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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Whats the major difference in having a steam box over a pc ? Is it just going to evolve into a pc type enviroment with many of the same applications over time anyway ? I don't really get it smile


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#4011201 - 09/18/14 01:07 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: Ajay]  
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Originally Posted By: Ajay
Whats the major difference in having a steam box over a pc ? Is it just going to evolve into a pc type enviroment with many of the same applications over time anyway ? I don't really get it smile


At the moment it's just a shorthand way of saying 'a small form-factor PC, aimed at the living room that uses the SteamOS'. For example, one of steam machines I have is the Valve reference (as part of testing), while the other one is just one I built myself using a small case, (i.e. a Silverstone LC05B mITX Small Form Factor case) and some bits I had left over from other PCs.

So in terms of hardware, it's just a PC with all the gubbins you can change. The valve reference one is really just to give a 'minimum spec' and brandname. In terms of software, the operating system is 'free' (in both senses of the word) and based off of a Debian distribution of linux. Rather than a console or a windowing system, when you start it up you get a TV friendly UI, that's basically the same as the Windows Steam Client 'Big Picture Mode'. The other differences are the driver framework has been made a bit more efficient so it updates by itself nicely.

For game developers it is handy to say 'this runs on a steamOS using a steam machine spec 1', as Valve eventually hope for their specs to be a guide to what that means. For consumers hopefully it'll make OEM's offer better, cheaper PC's rather than just each do their own minimum specs.

At the end of the day it's meant to be a compromise between the 'it just works' of consoles while still letting people build their own bits using a free gaming-centric OS, usually plopped under a TV in the living room.

#4011214 - 09/18/14 01:56 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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Ok, one thing , certain games need a lot of oomph so what happens when people, mainly younger gen buy the el cheapo version steam box and the game runs terribly ? Not dissing it, just wondering if are the boxes going to priced ranged with a list of games they are capable of running or something similar. I imagine many younger people jumping on the steam box bandwagon thinking it's a console type deal that runs all you can throw at it and then screaming blue murder when games more intensive than peggle wink don't like the i3 and 4gb option.


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#4011221 - 09/18/14 02:27 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: Ajay]  
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Originally Posted By: Ajay
Ok, one thing , certain games need a lot of oomph so what happens when people, mainly younger gen buy the el cheapo version steam box and the game runs terribly ? Not dissing it, just wondering if are the boxes going to priced ranged with a list of games they are capable of running or something similar. I imagine many younger people jumping on the steam box bandwagon thinking it's a console type deal that runs all you can throw at it and then screaming blue murder when games more intensive than peggle wink don't like the i3 and 4gb option.



Well, that's a fair point and a real risk I think. With a Microsoft or Sony console, games get coded to its final hardware spec, so if the 'steam machine' ever took off as a configuration that people wanted then in some ways the game devs have to target those specs too. The advantage is though that the PC bits continue to get more powerful in relative terms overtime while the prices get better. Both the Xbox One and PS/4 are fairly ordinary in terms of entry-level PC hardware (and this time next year, even a $400 PC would be double their horsepower), so even the 'steam machine - medium sized' would probably be ok for a wide range of titles for a while. Stuff like how powerful the integrated GPU on the haswell i3 is, and how 8GB RAM is pretty much a sweet spot, all help - those things don't need a big jump soon. Big GPU's will continue to march on, and people will still pay $500 for them, but that's not really the steam machine market. Another way to view the steam machine is 'why aren't PC's ok to put under and use with the best/biggest screen in the house, where we all sit?', and then work back from there. It's not a 'will do everything' spec, just a living room thing.

#4011239 - 09/18/14 03:13 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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Sales will do good regardless, hype trains run overcrowded and flat out these days smile Be interesting to see how they go at launch and i wonder if many dedicated console players would shell out for the lower tier one.


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#4011281 - 09/18/14 05:48 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: Stormtrooper]  
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Originally Posted By: Stormtrooper
For FF....a visual reference



...and Tim Buckley's (slightly disturbing) explanation what it's about.

#4011283 - 09/18/14 05:54 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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I think the concept is silly.

1) As a PC gamer Steam OS is limiting. No Origin games or non-Steam games for one. And I doubt drivers for hardware, like HOTAS or Track IR will be as stable/widespread as it is on Windows. And Windows can do a whole lot more than games.

Likewise, it will likely be more limited than a traditional PC in terms of hardware. Especially if you buy one of those tiny cases.

2) As a console gamer I don't care about the expensive models, I want everything to work equally (don't want to find out my tier can not achieve the highest graphics) and I don't care about upgrading components. If I did I would buy a PC.

Steamboxes seem to have all the negatives of PC gaming combined with the negatives of console gaming.

#4011285 - 09/18/14 06:06 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted By: Flogger23m
I think the concept is silly.

1) As a PC gamer Steam OS is limiting. No Origin games or non-Steam games for one. And I doubt drivers for hardware, like HOTAS or Track IR will be as stable/widespread as it is on Windows. And Windows can do a whole lot more than games.

Likewise, it will likely be more limited than a traditional PC in terms of hardware. Especially if you buy one of those tiny cases.

2) As a console gamer I don't care about the expensive models, I want everything to work equally (don't want to find out my tier can not achieve the highest graphics) and I don't care about upgrading components. If I did I would buy a PC.

Steamboxes seem to have all the negatives of PC gaming combined with the negatives of console gaming.


It runs anything, games don't have to come from Steam (I've streamed Origin games to it). Put LibreOffice on it if you want as well.

As a console-only Windows fan, it's probably not ideal for you. smile

#4011287 - 09/18/14 06:11 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: FearlessFrog]  
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Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog
Originally Posted By: Flogger23m
I think the concept is silly.

1) As a PC gamer Steam OS is limiting. No Origin games or non-Steam games for one. And I doubt drivers for hardware, like HOTAS or Track IR will be as stable/widespread as it is on Windows. And Windows can do a whole lot more than games.

Likewise, it will likely be more limited than a traditional PC in terms of hardware. Especially if you buy one of those tiny cases.

2) As a console gamer I don't care about the expensive models, I want everything to work equally (don't want to find out my tier can not achieve the highest graphics) and I don't care about upgrading components. If I did I would buy a PC.

Steamboxes seem to have all the negatives of PC gaming combined with the negatives of console gaming.


It runs anything, games don't have to come from Steam (I've streamed Origin games to it). Put LibreOffice on it if you want as well.

As a console-only Windows fan, it's probably not ideal for you. smile



To clarify, to run Origin games you must stream it from another device? Does that device have to be Windows? Or can you directly run/install an Origin game with only a single Steam OS game?

If it requires two devices I don't see the point. Why use two devices when you can use one?

#4011288 - 09/18/14 06:21 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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It's not meant to replace everything, just like a Kindle doesn't mean books aren't printed anymore.

We have 8 PCs in the house (kids!) so for me a TV or projector box for $300 that runs silently, updates itself, controller friendly and can also run native apps (on Steam if you own the Windows version then if available you get the Linux version too) or can stream at 1080p/60 has a place. It's probably a niche but a new niche. The misconception here I think is that it replaces all your other things/PCs. It has a specific role.

#4011299 - 09/18/14 07:00 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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But what role does it do that Windows can not? Can Windows not do everything you just described, but with more functionality? I supposed Steam OS is free, but with cheap Windows licenses ($40 occasionally) it seems worth it to spend the extra for some more functionality.

#4011308 - 09/18/14 09:22 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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I'm also having a hard time understanding this whole concept.

If I buy a Steam box that runs Steam OS I instantly make 3/4 of my software library useless,that is assuming I ditched my Windows PC in favour of it.Is there going to be more effort to make all new games run under Linux because as a recent convert I would welcome that.


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#4011314 - 09/18/14 10:32 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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Can you connect a standard PC widescreen monitor to this or can you only use a TV for display output?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4011324 - 09/18/14 11:41 AM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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I could see it working if the OS automatically configures the game detail settings, and in every other way makes it as hassle-free as possible to run.

#4011345 - 09/18/14 12:46 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: marko1231123]  
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Forget the name, it's JUST A PC. A PC that runs a modified version of Linux instead of Windows, one that is designed to be plugged into a TV but could be used on a monitor just the same (as some people have PS or Xbox on a monitor), and use a controller over kb/mouse but still supports them.

The idea is to make a cheap PC that can still play games. Yeah, you can make your own PC and it will do more BUT it will cost you 2x-3x more. Consoles play these great games at full detail for $500, something a $500 PC struggles to do.

Valve is attempting to make PC gaming more attractive by lowering the price of entry. Yeah, buy a PC for $300 and it will work great UNTIL you play a game more demanding than Plants vs Zombies and it collapses--but not everyone can afford or desires to pay $1000+ for that great BF experience on a PC when they can do it for half that on a console AND avoid driver headaches AND avoid Windows patches and anti-virus and blah blah blah.

Is there any reason for a person to replace a PC with a Steambox? NO. Zero. Stop looking for the reason and then dismissing it when you can find it. It's like looking to replace your car with a lawnmower.

Steambox is designed to be either another PC you put in your living room to let you play the games that will work with it (especially console cross-platform games that work with controllers already) possibly with friends, not RTS and sims
OR an entry level PC that will let people play some games that never came out on console (or did on an old one that the new one no longer has, eg you can play any CoD on a PC while the newest consoles only let you play the ones released for it, not CoD1 or 2 or whatever as well) in addition to all the ones that will.

If you only have one PC, forget it. If you have no interest in gaming in the living room but are going to forever sit at your desk, forget it. If you don't care about spending $400 at a time to upgrade just one thing, forget it. You're not the target audience.
Junior with his PS4 that thinks gaming on a PC is too big a hassle or too costly on his meager allowance/after school job income is the target. Billy Bob who has no patience for that *insert word before fangled* stuff is the target.



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#4011349 - 09/18/14 12:52 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
If you only have one PC, forget it. If you have no interest in gaming in the living room but are going to forever sit at your desk, forget it. If you don't care about spending $400 at a time to upgrade just one thing, forget it. You're not the target audience.

The Jedi Master


Yup, this is exactly me. smile


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#4011437 - 09/18/14 05:24 PM Re: Steam console. [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
If you only have one PC, forget it. If you have no interest in gaming in the living room but are going to forever sit at your desk, forget it. If you don't care about spending $400 at a time to upgrade just one thing, forget it. You're not the target audience.

The Jedi Master


Yup, this is exactly me. smile


The missing bit in Jedi's understanding is that it is aimed at people with $3000 PC's in a separate room too. It allows you to spend a small amount and then have access to that large PC game collection on your biggest screen and couch, but without having to move that enormous noisy water-cooled heavy PC out of the office. smile

The PC versions of The Golf Club, Total War: Empire, even Star Citizen alpha have been fun to play on the couch sometimes or on a 10ft screen. It doesn't mean I don't play in an office more often, but with a couple of wireless controllers sometimes the couch is good too, especially local co-op or multiplayer.

PS I have all the consoles too, and they still get played. I didn't burn all my books when getting a kindle.

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