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#3979798 - 07/11/14 07:56 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) ***** [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp


The table above shows target altitude Hc=0.1km and max engagement range Dt=24km.

You cannot engage target at H=100m at 24km distance with TT method.
With TT if the target is at 24km, minimum altitude is 1km!

Did you read it earlier?


Yes, but I need the document where it was written (or drawn).

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3981386 - 07/15/14 09:44 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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scrim Offline
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Is the SA-2 a bit too good right now? I'm asking because when I play the Linebacker scenarios, I rarely have an issue scoring an almost 1:1 SA-2 launch:hit ratio, whereas what I've read in the documents included in SAM sim is that the Vietnamese found they had to fire at least two to hit, and that it often took a lot more than that per hit.

Would you say that it's down to the missiles being too accurate right now, or because of other factors, such as Wild Weasels being slow to fire Shrikes and never "going in for the kill" with cluster bombs once you've turned off the radar, or because the IADS is too well informed of where everything is all the time?

#3981660 - 07/16/14 01:19 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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It's also partly us playing the same mission many times. In reality, SAM crews got only one chance.

Also, the way aircraft try to dodge missiles is very limited. In reality the US had specific manouvers to avoid missiles, but in SAM Sim they either dive or just fly straight.

And the jamming used in SAM Sim is also limited. They only use noise jamming. If aircraft used modulated noise jamming, like in reality, it would make hitting targets much harder. And they don't drop chaff.

#3981670 - 07/16/14 01:43 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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I thought there was chaff in the Linebacker scenarios? Because an issue I encounter sometimes when I target the B-52s and fire with a passive targeting radar is that the 11 seconds post launch armed SA-2s detonate mid flight. Is that not due to simulated chaff?

#3982074 - 07/17/14 07:25 AM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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It might be a result of pre-existing chaff walls, but aircraft don't react to a missile launch by turning away and dropping chaff.

#3982088 - 07/17/14 09:05 AM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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scrim Offline
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Pretty sure they didn't have chaff on fighters in '72, and the SAC bomber pilots were threatened with court martial if they took evasive manoeuvres.

#3982161 - 07/17/14 02:25 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: scrim]  
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Chaff corridors created by drones, and also B-52's flying in particular formations that took advantage of the size of SA-2 radar cells.

Originally Posted By: scrim
I thought there was chaff in the Linebacker scenarios? Because an issue I encounter sometimes when I target the B-52s and fire with a passive targeting radar is that the 11 seconds post launch armed SA-2s detonate mid flight. Is that not due to simulated chaff?


--
44th VFW
#3994283 - 08/12/14 08:20 AM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: scrim]  
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Originally Posted By: scrim
Pretty sure they didn't have chaff on fighters in '72, and the SAC bomber pilots were threatened with court martial if they took evasive manoeuvres.


F-4 fighters dropped chaff bombs.
(they had great difficulty to climb to the B-52 altitude with that load)

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/12/14 08:21 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#3998950 - 08/21/14 06:33 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

The table above shows target altitude Hc=0.1km and max engagement range Dt=24km.

You cannot engage target at H=100m at 24km distance with TT method.
With TT if the target is at 24km, minimum altitude is 1km!

Did you read it earlier?




I got it.... But the veteran still insist that the system goes in TT when angular speed in epsilon is negative (when target dives to the ground and (when target recedes). I knew about automatic switch to TT when target goes diving, but it goes only from UPR (IMHO), because when the guidance method is K, it always use a correction in vertical plane:



say when angular speed in epsilon is less than 0.6 degrees per second, K method use the 0.6 degrees as value.... Not sure it is relative for negative values of epsilon negative speeds (like <0, which is in case of receding/diving target)...

#3999717 - 08/23/14 07:08 AM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

The firing mode of the SNR, guidance method, radio proxy fuse setting should be set similarly as incoming target.
K3 method cannot be used.


I've been told that system goes in T/T automatically no matter which method was selected.... Could we check this with FCO????


thumbsup
According to the Firing Manual you can select UPR, K, TT, I87V.
Click to reveal..



PS: checking with several FCO's


There must be a note under this table you post, could you check it for me, please?

#3999730 - 08/23/14 08:00 AM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: piston79]  
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Click to reveal..
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

The firing mode of the SNR, guidance method, radio proxy fuse setting should be set similarly as incoming target.
K3 method cannot be used.


I've been told that system goes in T/T automatically no matter which method was selected.... Could we check this with FCO????


thumbsup
According to the Firing Manual you can select UPR, K, TT, I87V.
[spoiler]


PS: checking with several FCO's


There must be a note under this table you post, could you check it for me, please?


Two notes:

1. With TT and TT-I87V guidance method, the lower limit of the killing zone is 0.5km at Dt=15km range.

2. *mark H=0.1km with 20DSU and 5Ya23 missiles, H=0.3km with 20DP missile.

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/23/14 08:01 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#4002538 - 08/29/14 05:50 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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It was in Ebay







Last edited by piston79; 08/29/14 05:53 PM.
#4002543 - 08/29/14 06:00 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Nice!
thumbsup





Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4003337 - 08/31/14 06:56 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp


Consider H<5 mode...
thumbsup


This is a bit irrelevant, as you must use T/T or K method, so not much possibilities of big lead in epsilon....


As per more than 4 degrees lead - it could be due to unguided flight of missile (until hitting the strobs on >2.1 km range...


In Epsilon in case of H<5, the boresight is moved down electrically by 3 degrees.
If I consider +-4 degree of elevation lead from the mechanical boresight, than in H<5 the lead can be -1 .. +7 degrees from the electrical boresight.


Please, check the page 356 (end)-360 of the "Supplementation to the Rules of Shooting fir S-75M" (from where you show me the killing zone for receding target) and tell me how you understand it... screwy

#4003338 - 08/31/14 06:56 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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What was the price?

#4003352 - 08/31/14 07:23 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
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Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
What was the price?


Do not know... a guy in a forum post it with this explanation...

#4010548 - 09/16/14 04:41 PM Karat [Re: Cat]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Working on nuclear mushroom cloud behaviour (forming, rising), to be able to visualize it...



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4010639 - 09/16/14 07:23 PM Re: Karat [Re: Cat]  
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thumbsup nuclear explosion in karat ar15

#4010867 - 09/17/14 11:01 AM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Hpasp]  
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max2012 Offline
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True altitude and distance is on the table!

Height: 0.1 I understand it 100 meters height, as well as 300 meters is 0.3.

Target speed is not more than 420 m/s as I understood.

Interested in a table with a height of 30 km there is no data, as I understand it, the planes don't fly at such altitudes.

That's right, at an altitude of 100 metres is 0.1, range 24 km.

Only it is not clear why the speed limit of 420 m/s if the Dogon only towards I think and the more you can.

And so true!

#4011035 - 09/17/14 06:28 PM Re: S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) [Re: Cat]  
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max, if you look at the chart more precisely, then you will see that horizontal axis is a radius of a fireball and vertical axis is a height of it at moment of detonation.

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