#4008838 - 09/12/14 04:06 PM
"Stealth scam"
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MK_PL
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This interview is more than a year old, I know, so it's not exactly "new news", but what do you think about his opinion about stealth technology? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDSiwqM2nw
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#4008874 - 09/12/14 04:54 PM
Re: "Stealth scam"
[Re: scrim]
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MK_PL
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Sprey has pretty much about as much of an idea of what he's talking about as anyone on this forum. That's why I posted the link. There are a few people on this forum who seem to know what they're talking about.
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#4008940 - 09/12/14 06:45 PM
Re: "Stealth scam"
[Re: MK_PL]
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Hpasp
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Ehhh... ... just another target for the SAM guys. But to be serious, do you know what was the first target during OAF, hit by a Tomahawk missile around Belgrade??? (the sole P14 Tall King of Serbia)
Last edited by Hpasp; 09/12/14 07:01 PM.
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#4008972 - 09/12/14 07:35 PM
Re: "Stealth scam"
[Re: MK_PL]
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MK_PL
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Is there any truth in what he says about 2nd WW and Russian radars?
Last edited by MK_PL; 09/12/14 07:49 PM.
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#4009315 - 09/13/14 04:48 PM
Re: "Stealth scam"
[Re: MK_PL]
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Hpasp
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Is there any truth in what he says about 2nd WW and Russian radars? Lets take the Cold War Stealth plane, and assume that its RCS is around a tennis ball. (size of the plane is similar to an F-4 Phantom, so it is a great engineering achievement) What do we have (using metric target acquisition radar), to shoot it down? SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F) with the metric P-12 (Spoon Rest-A) target acquisition radar. Metric P-12 could detect the Stealth at the maximum of ~25km. RSNA-75M (Fan Song-F) centimeter band fire control radar could detect it at maximum ~10km. Minimum effective range of the V-750VMK (Guideline Mod.1) missile is 5km. During the '80s when the Stealth was active, Dvina was generally replaced by the Volhov system.S-75M Volhov (SA-2E) with the metric P-18 (Spoon Rest-D) target acquisition radar. Metric P-18 could detect the Stealth at the maximum of ~30km. RSN-75V (Fan Song-E) centimeter band fire control radar could detect it at maximum ~13km. Minimum effective range of the V-759 (Guideline Mod.5) missile is 7km. The Neva (SA-3B), KRUG (SA-4B), KUB (SA-6A), Osa (SA-8B) has no metric target acquisition radar, and the P-14 (Tall King) of the Vega (SA-5B) can be easily annihilated with a Tomahawk before any conflict. Of course, if you mix the Neva (Low Blow) fire control radar with the P-18 (Spoon Rest-D) target acquisition radar, than nasty surprise can happen...
Last edited by Hpasp; 09/13/14 04:58 PM.
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#4010118 - 09/15/14 05:09 PM
Re: "Stealth scam"
[Re: MK_PL]
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ricnunes
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I want to say that I completely agree with what was said here in the response of the original topic of this thread, specially I fully agree with what scrim said which is backed by Hpasp's data regarding detection ranges. In complement to what was already said here I want to say that Stealth doesn't mean that's completely "invisible" to a radar, in fact almost any radar can detect any Stealth aircraft. What happens is that a Stealth aircraft (F-117 or F-35 for example) is always detectable by a radar source (doesn't matter the type or band that it uses/operates) at a much shorter range when compared to a Non-Stealth (F-4 or F-15 for example) or to Semi-Stealth aircraft (Super Hornet or Rafale for example).
I'm going to be on the generic side here: - Imagine a radar that can detect a Stealth aircraft at 20Km (twenty) for example. This means that this same radar will be able to detect a Non-Stealth at much longer ranges, in the range of hundreds kilometers - I would say 200 (two hundred) kilometers for example.
- Now imagine that someone (doesn't matter who) is able to make some considerable progress in radar technologies, perhaps even using cutting edge technologies, perhaps using it together metric band radars and that this sort of new technology manages to detect a Stealth Aircraft such as the F-35 at ranges of 100km! This would certainly be a great achievement and I wouldn't say impossible, but again lets imagine this (still) imaginary radar which is able to detect a Stealth aircraft such as the F-35 at ranges of 100km, what would be the detection range of this same radar when detecting a non-stealth or even a semi-stealth aircraft such as the Super Hornet or Rafale for example? 700-800km or perhaps more? Taking this "academic" example an knowing that currently (and in the future) there is (and will be) a considerable arsenal of air launched weapons with ranges in excess of 100km, I say that a Stealth aircraft such as the F-35 can still be able to avoid and even destroy such radar systems without ever being detected! The same cannot be said regarding Non or Semi-Stealth aircraft since there isn't any air launched weapon with a range in the excess of 800km, at least for a fighter sized aircraft that I know of (Large Bombers such as B-1, B-52, Tu-95, Tu-160, etc... may be a different matter).
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#4010129 - 09/15/14 05:25 PM
Re: "Stealth scam"
[Re: ricnunes]
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MK_PL
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what would be the detection range of this same radar when detecting a non-stealth or even a semi-stealth aircraft such as the Super Hornet or Rafale for example? 700-800km or perhaps more? In this case, they would have to employ some kind atmospheric bounce effect due to the curvature of the Earth. If I'm not mistaken, an aircraft would have to travel at 20,000 m to be detected at the distance of 500 km or something like that (the SA-5 manual by Hpasp).
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#4010140 - 09/15/14 05:54 PM
Re: "Stealth scam"
[Re: MK_PL]
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ricnunes
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Like I said in my previous post, I gave an "academic" example only in order to show that a Stealth aircraft will always be harder to detect than a non-stealth one no matter what radar technology will be invented in the future. In my "academic" example I admit that I didn't take the Earth's curvature into the account (thanks for pointing it out). And I could reduce the range from my previous example from 800km to a more realistic 400km and the end result would be the same/similar.
Also yes, in the case of the F-35 (the most advanced stealth fighter aircraft) Stealth won't be used on it's own -> The F-35 will be able to use it's radar (as an antenna) and internal jammer to jam enemy radar sources (similar to a dedicated jammer aircraft) or of course use data from other sources (thru data-link), etc, etc...
EDIT: Actually I'm curious to know if it's possible to employ some kind atmospheric bounce effect in order for a radar to be able to detect aircraft at ranges that exceeds the Earth's curvature as pointed out by MK_PL?
Last edited by ricnunes; 09/15/14 07:11 PM.
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#4010207 - 09/15/14 07:43 PM
Re: "Stealth scam"
[Re: MK_PL]
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MK_PL
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By the way, I once heard that condition of F-22 stealth coatings becomes "critical" after 1,7 h of flight or so; it doesn't sound very optimistic, does it?
Last edited by MK_PL; 09/15/14 07:54 PM.
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#4010481 - 09/16/14 02:34 PM
Re: "Stealth scam"
[Re: MK_PL]
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ricnunes
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Very interesting info Hpasp! Actually never though and didn't know that long range radars focus most of their power output at only a few degrees above the horizon. Also, great info about the OTH radars. Thanks for sharing the info and links
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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