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#3970147 - 06/19/14 01:52 PM WWI aircraft goodness...  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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Alabaster, AL USA
Last weekend I took the long drive to Gardner, Kansas for the annual WWI replica airshow. It's a small affair with about ten to fifteen replicas, all homebuilts, and very organic. It's held at the Gardner municipal airport, which is an example of a very old school place to fly - no fences with goofy locks or limited access to the flight line. No stands or announcers. Just aircraft and the guys (and gal) that built and fly them answering questions and when the weather works, taking them to the air.

There's no schedule for flying. When the weather agrees they just take off after talking with each other about safety. Few radios in use, which can get interesting when there's six planes buzzing about.

The real magic is if one shows up on Friday morning, the day before the airshow, and lends a hand in assembling the aircraft as they come off trailers. They appreciate it, especially if one knows the difference between an aileron and a rudder. It was a godsend for a guy like me building his own, as ten seconds putting a hand on a part is worth hours of typing online and showing pictures.

The drill usually went that folks would help with the unloading and lifting of bits, but the builder assembled the hardware himself. Can't say it's not a bad system - if I'm flying an airplane I think I'd rather make sure all the bolts are in correctly and tightened myself.



If you've seen the Airdrome Airplanes promotional video, you'd recognize folks from it...and they're just as nice as can be. Rick Bennett, for example, is a sort of legend in the replica world for his attention to detail and incredible machining, welding, covering, etc., work.

Naturally I caused a few lengthy conversations by asking opinions on some design decisions. The cool thing is that with these guys it's all respectful even when they vehemently disagree. That's Butch Witlock in the background lighting a cigar after giving me his heartfelt opinion on axel design and strength requirements - he's a big guy that can look fierce but is simply a helluva a great guy to talk to.



Here's Butch's full scale Fokker DVII after assembly. It has some minor illness that kept it from flying, but what a beauty. I got to help put on the horizontal stab and elevator, which comes as high praise as both he and Rick usually don't let anyone they know do much but drool over their aircraft.



Flight line shaping up...Nieuport 17, Siemens-Schuckert D.I, and a Fokker DVII (all 7/8 scale). The D.I is a cheater plane - the damned Germans basically copied the N17, putting their own spin on it.

That's a Mariner amphib flying down the strip, the only two placer at the show.



This is Rick Bennett buzzing down the strip about an hour after getting his plane assembled. Pay attention to that windsock - it's very limp, as the wind was calm.



He's joined quickly by another Belgium Nieuport for some close formation flying.






I joked that the Belgium contingent was in quarantine, as they parked on the other side from the main flight line; I suspect the hand polished cowling had a lot to do with it. I think putting a handprint on one of them probably warrants a punch to the nose.

There were no ropes around aircraft on the line. One was encouraged to walk right up to them and gape, as well as ask questions.



The air soon had the rumble of VW powered replicas as they taxied out to the grass strip. It's the only public airfield I've ever seen with one.

I don't have a lot of pictures of them flying, as I didn't bring my zoom lens and wanted the memory to be of watching planes rather than of me taking pictures of planes as they flew.



Morane in the front, Nieuports in the back - and one guy couldn't resist sticking his Taylorcraft on the end. It's a warbird, so nobody said nothing, too busy staring at the glorious work the guy did to restore it. On Saturday he put it in his hangar to keep people's hands off it.



Saturday came with winds - 13 knots that went up to 20 with gusts to 25. Only one soul braved it - Rick Bennett - though he cut it short as it got worse.



Look at that windsock on Saturday. Not a big deal, one might say, until the earlier picture of them lining up on the grass strip. Rick landed in that wind with an almost perfect 90 degree crosswind. Lots of us watching it with held breath, but he made it look easy.



Robert Baslee of Airdrome Airplanes brought out his latest creation, a full scale SE5a. I missed taking pictures of it in flight, as the camera was in a hangar and I was on the other side of the airfield when it was showing off. An oil leak ended her demonstration. What a beast!



I sat in several of the Nieuports in order to see the sightlines for my own wink , but only Sharon Starks had the presence of mind to ask if I wanted my picture taken while in the seat. Heck yeah!



With a storm coming in with high winds on Sunday, the whole thing shut down late Saturday. The Nieuports are just over ultralight in weight and aren't built for taking winds like that, so I helped tear them all back down and put them back into and onto trailers.

I learned a lot about the things I needed to do on my own plane as well as ordered the VW from the Valley Engineering folks before setting back for the long drive back to Alabama.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

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#3970430 - 06/19/14 09:23 PM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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Smokin_Hole Offline
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Nice writeup (or AAR perhaps?) Dart. Nice Pics too. What are you building?

#3970525 - 06/20/14 05:04 AM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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Dart Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
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Lifer

Joined: Sep 2001
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Alabaster, AL USA
7/8th scale Nieuport 11.

I'm getting into the home stretch with her, too....starting to cover, as there's some re-rigging to do, panel to put together, mounting the firewall, and tweaking the wings a bit.

Engine is on order....pretty exciting stuff.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#3970527 - 06/20/14 05:16 AM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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Orlando, FL
As a former homebuilt airplane owner, I agree that these little get togethers are more fun than the big shows, sometimes. I'd go to breakfast fly-ins and everybody just walked around the airplanes and talked and got to know each other. No big egos. Just fun. My club held several fly-ins and they were always a great time.
Dart, I think that airplane that you're sitting in was used in a movie, wasn't it?


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#3970597 - 06/20/14 01:06 PM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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Dart Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
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Lifer

Joined: Sep 2001
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Alabaster, AL USA
Yep, it was in Amelia. The Morane is owned by Sharon Starks, who is not only a builder and a fine pilot in her own right, but is the wife of Dick Starks of the KC Dawn Patrol. That's the KC Dawn Patrol's Nieuport 11's on the line next to it.

It another of Robert Baslee's Airdrome Aeroplanes creations, tube and gusset construction. As a monowing the drag is minimal - it's powered by a Generac 40 HP big twin engine using a redrive and zips along really spritely.

The KC Dawn Patrol guys are a great group. They match my views on not getting too crazy on the attempt to make a replica and building in general. The Nieuport 11 didn't have a panel, for example, but all of theirs and mine will have one - though it's just a standard six pack. There are also a couple of "unpretty" places on their planes - perfect is the enemy of good* and if one wants a flying airplane with a build of less than ten years one has to draw the line on standards of workmanship. A little crease in a purely cosmetic piece is okay, as is an unelegant wrap of part of the combing around the cockpit.

Here's the Airdrome Aeroplanes promo video...



* Unless one is Rick Bennett. Then perfect just comes naturally.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#3970638 - 06/20/14 02:11 PM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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f15sim Offline
More projects than sense!
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Graham, WA
Why 7/8 scale? If you're going to that length, why not 1:1?

Excellent photos. Thanks for posting them!

g.


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#3970708 - 06/20/14 05:27 PM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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There's a couple good reasons for 7/8 scale.

First, the relationship between size and volume is 2:3; double the size, triple the volume. So reducing the size by 20% means a lot of savings not just in materials, but in weight and drag. So at 7/8ths scale I can power it with a 1915cc VW throwing a 62" prop (around five grand for a fire wall forward rig) with lots of power to spare, but at full scale it would take a larger engine and prop that would cost twice as much.

The difference in materials between a 7/8 scale N11 and a full scale N17 is a little over two thousand dollars (they're basically the same plane). One can power a N11 with an 1700cc direct drive engine (though 1835 and 1915cc are better), but the full scale N17 needs a 2180cc VW with a redrive, adding another four grand to the engine and prop.

So an additional five feet of main wing span between the 7/8 scale N11 and the full scale N17 costs an additional six thousand dollars for not much difference in performance and appearance, as both cruise around 55-65 mph and neither are aerobatic. That's a lot of cash to add just two and a half feet to either side of the wing (and three and a half feet to the length).

Graham Lee designed what became a major innovation in homebuilding with his tube and gusset 7/8 scale Nieuport 11 with the notion that it could be built as an ultralight, though very few ever pulled it off without some fudging of the scales.

So, second, a bunch of Graham Lee Nieuport 11's got built and work really, really well. So after Mr. Lee passed away and support for them with him, Mr. Baslee stepped in with a kit of his own with some design changes. The AA N11 throws out the notion that it can be built as ultralight and has dual spars for the lower wing, for example.

7/8ths scale also avoids the "pumpkin head" effect of many scaled down aircraft, like the 75% scale DH2. It doesn't hurt that I'm also 7/8ths scale. When I step up to my Nieuport 11 I become 6'2" tall and 195 pounds, which is neat because I can still find clothes that fit me in the stores when I step away from it.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
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#3974148 - 06/28/14 05:08 PM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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Alabaster, AL USA
Oh, and I learned that panning shots lack a certain effect on these aircraft versus others, as they're only going fifty miles an hour!


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#3974248 - 06/28/14 09:52 PM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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Sydney, Australia
Thanks for the pics Dart - re: panning shots, yes, you really need to slow it right down to get the same effect as say a WW II type. Props are always fun in my opinion, trying to get prop blur whilst a sharp image (as you we'll know).


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#3997790 - 08/19/14 04:38 AM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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wheelsup_cavu Offline
Lifer
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Lifer

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Looks like you had a great time.
After going to Chino for the past 3 years it seems real strange to see an airfield that isn't fenced off and the flight line restricted access.


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#3999933 - 08/23/14 06:58 PM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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Alabaster, AL USA
I guess you'd be flabbergasted to find out that a few folks walked out right to the edge of the active to take pictures of Rick doing fly-by's.

The whole of the event is very casual and has more of a fly-in attitude than an airshow.

I had a couple responses to my "thank you for your time" emails that all pretty much echoed each other. While I showed up the day before and early to help assemble aircraft and ask a lot of dumb questions, some other builders arrived while the event was ongoing with written lists of questions that were technical and boring. That's not the time for that! It scares off other people who just want to look and learn about aircraft, and when it comes to a choice between a star eyed eight year old who would thrill to being lifted into a cockpit and try on a leather flying helmet or some old dude wanting to discuss exhaust temperatures on the number two versus number four cylinder it's no contest.

Once the public arrived on Saturday I mostly just watched the flying, chatted with the non-flying builders including this poor guy Bill that I know from the builder's forum, and fielded some basic questions on the flight line - I guess I looked like I knew what I was doing, since folks kept asking me stuff.

Sunday turned into a short show followed by break-down. Funny how all the guys with specific builder questions that were kind of irritated at not being allowed to monopolize folk's time during the show evaporated.

The downside to all that access is that people will do the darnedest things like just walk into an open hangar and browse it like a store or museum, lean against aircraft, put things on on them like they're tables or coat racks, or reach in and flip switches on a panel randomly as if they're checking to see if the aircraft are real or mock-ups.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#4000310 - 08/24/14 05:07 PM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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wheelsup_cavu Offline
Lifer
wheelsup_cavu  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,557
Corona, California
Originally Posted By: Dart
I guess you'd be flabbergasted to find out that a few folks walked out right to the edge of the active to take pictures of Rick doing fly-by's.

Actually no I wouldn't, the older I get the more I realize there are too many dimwits out there, and unfortunately at times it might just be me. biggrin

Originally Posted By: Dart
The whole of the event is very casual and has more of a fly-in attitude than an airshow.

I had a couple responses to my "thank you for your time" emails that all pretty much echoed each other. While I showed up the day before and early to help assemble aircraft and ask a lot of dumb questions, some other builders arrived while the event was ongoing with written lists of questions that were technical and boring. That's not the time for that! It scares off other people who just want to look and learn about aircraft, and when it comes to a choice between a star eyed eight year old who would thrill to being lifted into a cockpit and try on a leather flying helmet or some old dude wanting to discuss exhaust temperatures on the number two versus number four cylinder it's no contest.

Once the public arrived on Saturday I mostly just watched the flying, chatted with the non-flying builders including this poor guy Bill that I know from the builder's forum, and fielded some basic questions on the flight line - I guess I looked like I knew what I was doing, since folks kept asking me stuff.

Sunday turned into a short show followed by break-down. Funny how all the guys with specific builder questions that were kind of irritated at not being allowed to monopolize folk's time during the show evaporated.

The downside to all that access is that people will do the darnedest things like just walk into an open hangar and browse it like a store or museum, lean against aircraft, put things on on them like they're tables or coat racks, or reach in and flip switches on a panel randomly as if they're checking to see if the aircraft are real or mock-ups.

Happens all the time at Planes of Fame too. No matter how many signs you have up telling people to stay out of the cockpits or not to get into one of the vehicles some yahoo thinks that sign doesn't apply to them or their kids.


Wheels


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#4000561 - 08/25/14 07:19 AM Re: WWI aircraft goodness... [Re: Dart]  
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Pkumar Offline
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I Like this thread very much. No words to appreciate you. The Photography is really very wonderful and clean.


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