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#3997681 - 08/18/14 09:58 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: SlipBall]  
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Gambit21 Offline
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Originally Posted By: SlipBall
I think that its crazy to pretend something different was on the tail of those aircraft...I buy sims to simulate the history, talk about immersion killer...most likely a show stopper for me ahoy


You know what they say about the screen door on the way out - all that.

#3997940 - 08/19/14 02:09 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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Entil'zha
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Stalin killed anyone he thought was a threat to him--which was most of the planet. Hitler had particular ethnicity-based hatreds that have tainted the swastika, despite it being much older than he and assimilated inappropriately by his party.

There is no doubt that Germany has overreacted post-WWII after it spent the decade before under-reacting to what happened under its watch.
The problem is more that despite this ban pro-Nazi sentiment has grown anyway, proving how ineffectual it was.

That said, my question is this: just how many copies of flight sims are purchased in these countries like Germany that ban it anyway? Compare that to how many "I demand realism!" sales are lost from not having them.

Which is higher?



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3998068 - 08/19/14 07:40 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: SlipBall]  
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Originally Posted By: SlipBall
I think that its crazy to pretend something different was on the tail of those aircraft...I buy sims to simulate the history, talk about immersion killer...most likely a show stopper for me ahoy


That is ridiculous, but we're probably better off if you stay away from this game.

#3998107 - 08/19/14 09:16 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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bisher Offline
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Well, I'm thankful it will not be a show stopper for me, but appreciate what SlipBall is saying



#3998125 - 08/19/14 10:21 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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me too, not a show stopper by any means, but disappointing albeit for understandable reasons. And happy that no doubt it will be correctable in the aftermarket

#3998143 - 08/19/14 11:44 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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The lack of swastikas in the publisher's release will not be a show stopper! Third party enthusiasts will create options to put the historical markings in place! For those of us that want the f*cking swastikas (and I am one), we will get the option. This is a fact like the earth is round. smile


The issue is not p*ssy. The issue is monkey.
#3998253 - 08/20/14 04:29 AM Re: Historical Markings [Re: SlipBall]  
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Originally Posted By: SlipBall
I think that its crazy to pretend something different was on the tail of those aircraft...I buy sims to simulate the history, talk about immersion killer...most likely a show stopper for me ahoy



I hope it's not a show stopper. Doesn't seem logical that something that will probably be corrected with user made skins would keep you away or keep you from enjoying a gaming experience that you look forward to.

I fly sims to simulate the experience. I know not everything will be perfect, but if developers can come close enough to suspend disbelief then I feel they have succeeded. Historical accuracy is important but it takes a back seat to the overall excitement of flying the airplanes I fantasized about as a youth. It was the hunt. It was the evasion. It was seeing the earth scream toward me as I dove in for the kill. It was the trail of fire from my expertly aimed barrage of hellfire on my enemy. Developers have come so far in adding to the realism of flight sims that it seems a shame to avoid it because of a marking on the tail fin of an airplane.

#3998279 - 08/20/14 06:27 AM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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I am in the "it doesn't matter to me" crowd but I am not going to denigrate those who want them.

Imo, skinning planes for IL-2 BoS will not be as free and open as the original IL-2 if they are anything like Rise of Flight skins and with that in mind I do not believe that getting swastikas enabled will be anywhere near as easy as many want to believe.


Wheels


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#3998297 - 08/20/14 07:36 AM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Back around 2009 the Russian Federation created a new law that prohibits "spreading NS propaganda". Unfortunately they forgot to include precise explanations of what counted as such. In reaction to this 1C decided back then to remove the swastika (and similar emblems) from all its future titles to be on the safe side. That's the background.

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
There is no doubt that Germany has overreacted post-WWII after it spent the decade before under-reacting to what happened under its watch.
The problem is more that despite this ban pro-Nazi sentiment has grown anyway, proving how ineffectual it was.


I'll let you in on a secret: It wasn't just germans who insisted on banning these emblems. The US, British and French military governments of the three occupation zones insisted on it as part of the de-nazification process as well. Well, duh!

EDIT: Forgot one thing: Neonazi parties such as NPD and its cabal are getting consistently less than 2% in german polls, even though participation hovers around 50% of all voters. Some local elections have brought these parties temporary gains as people frustrated with standard parties voted after leaving their brain on the nightstand. But none of these "parties" are in any position to gain influence as they're outcasts (politically and socially), because they're too busy destroying themselves from within (Haha!) and they don't have much of a following here, anyway. They are in no way comparable to Front National or Golden Dawn (to name the two whose names might be known outside Europe).


Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
That said, my question is this: just how many copies of flight sims are purchased in these countries like Germany that ban it anyway? Compare that to how many "I demand realism!" sales are lost from not having them.

Which is higher?


Germany is one if not the most important flight sim markets in Europe. Apart from the Russian Federation the original Il-2 is said to have sold best here in Krautland. wink

And quite honestly: If anyone decides not to buy a sim merely because of a missing swastika (yammering about a lack of "historical accuracy") then there's no love lost on my part. Such thinking is small-minded and childish in my opinion.


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#3998646 - 08/20/14 10:11 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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I seem to have ignited an old flame fest, which was not my intention. When I enquired about the option of historical markings, a simple reference to the Devs policy would have been a sufficient answer. Maybe my comment of this omission being an immersion killer was not the best choice of words. This is certainly not a show stopper for me, and yes, I do intend to purchase the sim. I should have realized from the whole IL2 series, that the Swastika was only available as a Mod. I think we could now stop the flame throwing and sarcasm please!

#3998694 - 08/21/14 12:55 AM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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You have dug up a very, very old argument indeed biggrin


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Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#3998864 - 08/21/14 02:12 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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Entil'zha
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Originally Posted By: Fish40
I think we could now stop the flame throwing and sarcasm please!


No man can stop the sarcasm.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3999085 - 08/21/14 11:49 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Gambit21 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally Posted By: Fish40
I think we could now stop the flame throwing and sarcasm please!


No man can stop the sarcasm.




The Jedi Master


Eowyn can
If you get that you're a geek - just FYI.

#3999352 - 08/22/14 01:23 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

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Yes, because she is no man. Not said in the book, of course, only the film.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3999461 - 08/22/14 05:25 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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Lifer

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It's not dark and this is not a classroom.


The issue is not p*ssy. The issue is monkey.
#3999538 - 08/22/14 08:56 PM Re: Historical Markings [Re: Fish40]  
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Entil'zha
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Depends on where you access the site from though, doesn't it? It MIGHT be...



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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