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#3981026 - 07/15/14 01:33 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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This thread was the perfect reading before i go to bed, which will be in about five minutes. duckhunter


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#3981034 - 07/15/14 01:53 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: Chris2525]  
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Originally Posted By: Chris2525
I actually like this theory.

I think at the root of everything we classify as "paranormal" is our incomplete understanding of the universe and of the nature of consciousness.


This is cool but then you say some stuff ie:

Quote:
The fact of the matter is that there are more dimensions to the universe than we're able to perceive (I don't mean dimensions as in alternate universes, I mean dimensions as in depth, width, height and if you want to count it was a dimension, time.). The best science we have on the matter indicates that there are actually up to ten dimensions. We've just evolved to perceive the four we do perceive because that's all we needed to acquire food and shelter and to procreate. Some theorize that some animals have evolved to perceive other dimensions, but who really knows.


No, we perceive only four because the rest are folded in on themselves and we cannot easily (As in, not really) directly interact with them. Nor can animals.

Quote:
Look at gravity. We can't actually see gravity (i.e. we can't look at it's bends and curves) but we can see the effects of its influence on the objects we can perceive. Well maybe the things we attribute to paranormal activity exist predominantly on other other plains (like gravity does) and we can only perceive them in our four dimensions on the few occasions where the influence of their effects spill over to our four dimensions.


Gravity acts in our four dimensions, it doesn't 'spill over'. It may interact with other dimensions also, but there's no evidence that is 'lives' in them. And while our understanding of gravity, like many other things, might not be complete, it isn't quite so mystical. More like mysterious.

Quote:
Then there's the question of consciousness. We don't even have the slightest understanding of consciousness, what it is, where it comes from, or what its purpose is.


Sure we do. As in, we do have the slightest understanding. If we didn't, psychology would not exist, nor would therapies for mental problems. But then, mental problems are physical problems. It's never 'just in your head' in the figurative manner. It is literally in your head. In your brain.

Quote:
Consciousness does have an effect on the physical world.


Everything that is a physical interaction has an effect on the physical world, and vice versa. Consciousness is the manifestation of physical interactions. That much we know and is fairly easy to prove today.

Quote:
That's why at a sub-atomic level, bodies behave differently when observed than they do when they're not observed.


No they don't. In fact, that is a completely faulty misinterpretation of what's going on. An 'observation' in this context requires that you measure the target object somehow. If you do this, you apply energy to that target object. On the quantum physics level, you may not have a choice but to use so much energy to complete your observation that you will significantly effect the target. After your observation, it won't have the same parameters as it did before. In terms of the brain? Your braincells are 'observing' each other all the time. The term observation here has nothing to do with a live being observing something and interpreting it (although that is the end goal).

Quote:
This indicates that consciousness has real substance and its very presence has an effect on the world around it.


Yep, it's called your brain. Quite substantial. It can be easily damaged and completely alter your behavior.

Quote:
Maybe there's something about consciousness that leaves a lasting effect on the dimensions we don't perceive every day, and once in a while, when the conditions are right, those effects can bleed through into the dimensions we do perceive. Or for all we know, consciousness, once created, never fully disappears?


For all we do know, it does disappear. If you want to look for a soul, look for something that doesn't require a physical body and can't be hurt by sticks and stones. Or lead. Or exploding suns.

Quote:
All we really know is that we know basically nothing about any of this, and its anyone's guess.


Actually we know quite a bit, for real, and there are some pretty educated guesses, and pretty educated and important questions. They're some of the same ones that you ask, but without the mysticism and much better defined with possible avenues to finding answers etc.


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#3981050 - 07/15/14 02:51 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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I sometimes work in a building that was an old department store that was donated to the hospital by the former owners. The 3rd floor was the apartment that used to be where the owners lived. The owner is said to have passed away there. The story I was told when I first started working there was to look out for the ghost of Mr. Muirhead.My first reaction was to laugh it off. But a few very honest, no BS kind of people have told me stories about seeing things. Many nights I go in at 04:00 AM all by myself to an empty building. I usually have to go to the basement. Twice now I have heard whispering voices. Once I thought I felt someone tap me on my shoulder. I hope my mind isn't falling to the power of suggestion, but I HATE going in there alone at night.

#3981052 - 07/15/14 02:54 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Chris2525 Offline
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost

Actually we know quite a bit, for real, and there are some pretty educated guesses, and pretty educated and important questions. They're some of the same ones that you ask, but without the mysticism and much better defined with possible avenues to finding answers etc.


I think you're missing my point completely. All my above pseudo-scientific guesses are just attempts to illustrate my first point, that being that everything we think of as being "paranormal" are just functions of our incomplete understanding of the universe - just as all other fantastic phenomena were attributed by the supernatural until we possessed the science to explain them.

I'll take you up on the point of seeing the imprints of things that exist predominantly on other plains. This is what I'm getting at:



Now I'm a skeptic in every sense of the word, but I think there's a big difference between wanting to see proof of something before believing in it, and assuming for certain that the things you've never seen proof of do not exist. The latter assumes you know everything there is to know, which is is total lunacy.

I work with a guy who claims to be a skeptic, but he's not a true skeptic, he's someone with a firm set of beliefs and who will defend them tooth and nail - no different than believers. He believes what he believes because it gives him a perch to look down on others from.

To demonstrate how he wasn't a real skeptic, I asked him once "how would you feel if Bigfoot hunters marched out of the woods with a live Bigfoot, and thus provided irrefutable proof of Bigfoot's existence? Would you be intrigued and happily admit your were wrong? Or would you feel defeated, like you'd lost an argument?" Of course he knew which answer was the correct one, but anyone could tell what the real answer was. He would feel defeated. That's not what skepticism is. Skepticism is a search for the truth, not a want for your version of the truth to be the correct one.

Last edited by Chris2525; 07/15/14 03:09 AM.

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#3981053 - 07/15/14 03:00 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost

Sure we do. As in, we do have the slightest understanding. If we didn't, psychology would not exist, nor would therapies for mental problems. But then, mental problems are physical problems. It's never 'just in your head' in the figurative manner. It is literally in your head. In your brain.


You're talking about behavior, conditioning - distortions.
That's not consciousness.
Consciousnesses is non-local.

#3981054 - 07/15/14 03:04 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: Gambit21]  
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Chris2525 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gambit21
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost

Sure we do. As in, we do have the slightest understanding. If we didn't, psychology would not exist, nor would therapies for mental problems. But then, mental problems are physical problems. It's never 'just in your head' in the figurative manner. It is literally in your head. In your brain.


You're talking about behavior, conditioning - distortions.
That's not consciousness.
Consciousnesses is non-local.


Correct. We can find where all of those functions occur physiologically, we cannot find where consciousness occurs - i.e. what is the recipient of all of that filtered information, what's at the very core.


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#3981063 - 07/15/14 03:37 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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Ghosts, poltergeists, aliens-from-outer-space-on-earth, in short, paranormal phenomena: No. I don't believe in them. I've slept in haunted houses and a haunted inn - never saw or heard anything out of the ordinary.
Also, I do think these have been researched enough to be able to claim that they don't exist. In order to change my mind, you must come with very good proof - and with all respect, anecdotes aren't proof.
Do things happen that can't be explained? Well, of course. That doesn't mean it has to be paranormal though. The decoration that fell to the floor from the first post could've been knocked over by, for example, a cat... or fallen when a heavy truck drove past the house... or any one of hundreds of other explanations.

Apart from these things, there is the notorious unreliability of the human mind. The mind can play many tricks on you: show you things that aren't there and leave out other things that are (as the famous Gorilla experiment has shown). I see it with my own mother now, who has a certain form of dementia that can cause hallucinations. One moment she's talking to me, the next moment she sees a squad of policemen running through the room. Tests with EEGs have shown that hallucinations are real to the person experiencing them - even when they're not real to everyone else.


There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
#3981068 - 07/15/14 04:04 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: Chris2525]  
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It is in fact so local that we have an on/off switch:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22...p-in-brain.html

Let me put it in other words: Flip the switch in that little part of the brain, and the rest of your brain becomes irrelevant when it comes to conscious thought.

How is it 'non-local' when you can manipulate it? The brain is complex, but this is a problem of tractability, not of spirituality, or things that we will never understand etc. Again - want to talk about souls? Consciousness has nothing to do with them.

There's plenty of stuff we don't know, sure. There's a whole huge bunch that we do know as well.

Originally Posted By: Gambit21
You're talking about behavior, conditioning - distortions.
That's not consciousness.
Consciousnesses is non-local.


Quote:
Correct. We can find where all of those functions occur physiologically, we cannot find where consciousness occurs - i.e. what is the recipient of all of that filtered information, what's at the very core.

Last edited by GrayGhost; 07/15/14 04:11 AM.

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#3981070 - 07/15/14 04:08 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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It's KRT not Kurt
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This is not a ghost story but kind of an esp story; Years ago I had a girlfriend who told me she had a dream about me and that in this dream I had been in some kind of accident and I survived.. but that I had been surrounded by thousands of tiny blue lights like fairies or angels or something, that was pretty much her interpretation of it and couldn't offer a reasonable explanation of what they were. I of course thought it was just a dream and dreams can be weird without it meaning anything important. A few years later I bought a BMW Motorcycle and it was looking pretty rough on the paint so I painted it a metallic blue and it made the bike look great, but one night on my way home from work an old guy turned left in front of me in a Lincoln Continental and I hit him right between the headlights. I took out the fairing and triple tree with my pelvis and upper body but cleared the car. So I'm lying in the middle of the intersection with lights all around and all over the pavement little pieces and flakes of blue fairing were laying all around me illuminated like tiny blue lights. My sister called my now long ex-girlfriend from the hospital because I wanted her to know and when she answered the phone she simply said "he's alright, isn't he?" as if she already knew what the call was about. I have no explanation but to this day it still makes me wonder.


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#3981094 - 07/15/14 07:22 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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I was a total skeptic before this since I had never had any "ghost" encounters, but after one experience now I'm a "skeptical believer". I do think certain kinds of paranormal activity are real, like EVP's and "residual" hauntings; but I don't just go around thinking that anything "unexplained" is paranormal; I have to have pretty hard evidence (which is obviously hard to come by).

I've only had the one experience and I can't explain it. Not saying 100% that it was a "ghost"; but it was definitely strange.

When I was 24, I stayed at a an old friend's house out in the country after we had a BBQ. I had stayed there before a couple times but never felt/saw anything strange. I was asleep in the guest bedroom by myself, but woke up for no reason (I usually don't just wake up). I don't remember hearing or feeling anything; but I popped out of a deep sleep and was wide awake.

Not thinking anything of it, I was just kind of staring into the darkness at the foot of the bed trying to go back to sleep, when a light appeared from nowhere by the door, slowly floated ~10ft towards the window, then darted back to the door and faded out. It was a very dim, soft green-white ball light, I'm guessing about the size of a bottle cap.

For like 10-15 minutes I was wide awake, just staring in the area of the door, my mind going thru all of the things that it could have been (car lights reflecting, a bug, maybe even just my eyes playing tricks). I kept "debunking" them one by one: the window faces away from any roads, the mirror in the room is against the same wall as the window, there are no lightning bugs (or similar) in that part of the state...everything. I couldn't explain it.

I never mentioned it to my friends, just brushing it off as something I'll never be able to explain. Then months later, we were hanging out again, and one of them mentioned hearing noises like footsteps, cupboards/doors banging lightly, and other strange noises. They don't have pets, and they don't have rodents (at least they've never found the signs of a rodent). I mentioned my experience and we kind of nervously chuckled but never really talked about it any more. Since then they've moved, but not because of hauntings, just other opportunities.

All in all, it was very strange, and IMO there is no other explanation.

#3981108 - 07/15/14 09:03 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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The interesting thing is... whenever we have a Ghost thread here at SimHQ, this is maybe the third I remember... there are just too many people who I read everyday as perfectly sane and normal individuals telling stories like Chris' which clearly have some very unusual influences in them.

It's kinda hard not to believe that some stuff is out there, seeing how from a relativley small sample size quite a few persons have direct experience of such things.

#3981122 - 07/15/14 11:00 AM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: NH2112]  
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Originally Posted By: NH2112
I've been visited by the ghosts of my cats that died violently (being hit by cars) and that had lived here long enough for it to be their home. I'll see movements on the ground out of the corner of my eye but nothing is there, and feel one jump on the bed at night from time to time. They're just checking up on me, I think; the visitations stop within a month or two.


I don't think I've ever quoted myself before LOL

I quoted myself just so nobody has to look back to see what I'm referencing. While I sincerely believe what I wrote, I can't rule out that it's just my mind playing tricks on me as a subconscious way to comfort me. I would think that if that was the case then the ones I've had to have euthanized (non-violent deaths), or the ones that got hit but which I hadn't had very long (not long enough to leave an echo), would also appear because I found all their losses equally traumatic. But I can't rule out any non-paranormal causes.


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#3981235 - 07/15/14 04:24 PM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: Legend]  
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Originally Posted By: Legend

Apart from these things, there is the notorious unreliability of the human mind. The mind can play many tricks on you: show you things that aren't there and leave out other things that are (as the famous Gorilla experiment has shown). I see it with my own mother now, who has a certain form of dementia that can cause hallucinations. One moment she's talking to me, the next moment she sees a squad of policemen running through the room. Tests with EEGs have shown that hallucinations are real to the person experiencing them - even when they're not real to everyone else.



See, and this folds in to my other point--the brain is electrical. It IS susceptible to EM fields. So if there are energies that can make an object move or the air colder or hotter, it could certainly interfere with our brains to make us think we see something, and it could affect recording instruments as well. Your mother's brain has a self-contained electrical malfunction that only she perceives, but an external field could also cause one or more people to see things.

Now whether the energy has consciousness or intelligence is a question I'm not prepared to answer, but that it could alter our perceptions and let us think it does I wholly believe. A larger field could easily affect multiple people at once, and "group think" could easily make it so everyone thinks they saw the same thing even if there are some variations.

And if there's one thing we're still learning about, it's energy.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3981237 - 07/15/14 04:27 PM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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Jedi Master must be related to the short old lady from "Poltergeist". biggrin


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3981245 - 07/15/14 04:41 PM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
And if there's one thing we're still learning about, it's energy.


I read this and had a flashback to EPCOT's Universe of Energy! biggrin



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#3981251 - 07/15/14 05:09 PM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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Entil'zha
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It's now Bill Nye and Ellen DeGeneres, not quite the same as it was when I went there as a kid.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3981255 - 07/15/14 05:19 PM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
It's now Bill Nye and Ellen DeGeneres, not quite the same as it was when I went there as a kid.



The Jedi Master
I saw their new video/ride when I was at EPCOT a couple years ago. I thought it was pretty good.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/15/14 05:19 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3981378 - 07/15/14 09:15 PM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
I saw their new video/ride when I was at EPCOT a couple years ago. I thought it was pretty good.


Agreed, saw it again last year while in Orlando for the Rush concert. We'd love to do it again for the next tour, and I'll post an update on WDW's scooter/texting epidemic, including scooter gridlock and reckless texter bumping. smile.

#3981411 - 07/15/14 11:01 PM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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My thoughts are if Ghosts are real, then we would be seeing them on a far greater frequency, based on the fact that billions of humans have died before us.

#3981430 - 07/15/14 11:57 PM Re: The Paranormal... [Re: 531 Ghost]  
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Miami, Florida - United States...
When I was young (5~6 yld) we used to visit and stay at my grandparents home often when ever there was a long weekend. My grandparents home was built in the mid 1800s and made all of wood with the exception of the roof and bottom floor. I practically grew up going many times to this home and have very fond memories of it but one in particular never left my mind.

Grandparents home build in the mid 1800s



One night we all went to sleep. All bedrooms are on the top floor and the only bathroom (back in those days) was found on the bottom floor. Me and my brother where put in a bedroom directly facing the staircase going down. My parents were in the bedroom next to us that has a door liking both. Back in those days my grandparents did not have air conditioners so the windows had to be opened in order to allow the "cooler" air to come in. Keep in mind that this is the Caribbean and no matter how cool it gets it is still HOT for me. This is not even counting the mosquitoes that enjoyed sipping on my sweet tasting blood each night. That particular night I could not sleep because it was too warm, humid and mosquitoes were biting me all over (face, feet, hands, anything left uncovered by the bed sheets). Not only that, the street light outside was shinning light into the wall where the door towards the staircase is located.

The original bedroom. Back in the day it had two smaller beds.



I assumed that it had to be around 2 ~ 3 AM when I started hearing heavy footsteps coming from the staircase. At this moment I was not scarred at all since it was customary to go downstairs in order to use the bathroom and usually it was either my dad or grandfather. I pretended to go to sleep since I did not wanted to be scolded by staying up late but I kept my eyes halfway shut. The steps were getting louder and closer until it reached the bedroom where I was at. The heavy steps suddenly stopped and a "woman" entered the room, I say it was a woman since it had a female long gown and had long hair up to the shoulders but the odd thing is that it was stepping close to our beds without making any sound! Not only that, when this "woman" came close and the street light hit her I was unable to pick up ANY facial features (nose, eyes and/or mouth)! At this time I practically froze in fear, paralyzed upon what I was seeing. Keep in mind that at this time in my life I did not know what we all call a ghost/spirit/apparition what ever you wish to call it was. The only thing I knew at this point is that all of it was not the norm. The "woman" appear to "float" since I was unable to see her feet and she appeared to have slight glow similar to how the moon glows when it is full.

Bedroom door towards staircase



The "woman" stayed between my and my brother's bed for what appeared to me as an eternity and then turned around and went back downstairs making that heavy thump at each step. In the morning I asked my parents and grandparents if they went to the bathroom at night and all of them denied going there. The following night I "prepared" the room just after my parents went to sleep. I pushed my parents luggage behind the bedroom door and prayed that the "woman" did not visit again. Right about when I was about to doze off I start to hear the heavy thumping of someone coming up the stairs, getting louder and closer as it reaches the bedroom door. At this moment all is quiet and then I see the door knob moving! There is no lock on this ancient doors but somehow this entity was unable to push open the door with the luggage behind it. It stopped and I heard it going back downstairs. Again, the following morning I asked again and no one visited the bottom floor at night.

The staircase


Years have passed by and almost have forgotten this experience until one visit a few years back I was talking with my grandparents in their home. In the conversation they told me that my grandfather's mother lived her last years in that same home until she passed away. I asked where did she sleep and I was told by them that she slept and finally died in the room I saw the entity when I was 5~6 yld! Was it her? I really do not know since she died when my mother was a teenager. But it is a very odd coincidence to know this and having witnessed something definitely not of the norm.


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