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#3977757 - 07/07/14 09:50 PM Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals  
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Today I received the Slaw BF109 pedal. I've been eagerly waiting to get my hands on Slaw's all metal all magnetic frictionless sensor driven rudder pedals. Finally I can now compare the two top notch enthusiast pedals of Flight simmers.


Last edited by H1TMAN_ACTUA1; 08/05/15 03:59 AM.

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Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3977766 - 07/07/14 10:19 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Now when it comes to packaging Slaw has Milan beat hands down. Slaw uses a much more durable box and uses a better packaging technique than Milan. I've conversed with Milan about his packaging after my Uncles pedals arrived beaten to hell and replacement parts were needed. Milan's customer service is excellent. He sent the replacement parts right away and I was able to repair my uncles pedals with ease. Milan did tell me he is going to step up his packaging technique after seeing the pictures I sent him of the damaged parcel my uncle received.

Milans uses high resolution contactless magnetic sensors(digital and analog) and a Cam to control the axis of the yaw. The Toe brakes have super heavy duty adjustable spring tension, pitch and horizontal pedal angel adjustments. Milan's composite material design is also very ridged and strong. I'd like it to be all metal but my guess is that the cost would sky rocket. Neither of these pedals are cheap,Especially if your buying from the US like me. The toe brakes range of motion is really good not too short or too long of travel just right. the yaw axis range of motion is perfect as well, not too short and not too long.

Milans specifications:
http://mfg.simundza.com/mfgcrosswind.php

Milan:
Differential Toe Brakes axes
20 degree of pedal rotation. Reading by hall sensor with resolution of 2048 positions

Adjustable pedals angle
Adjustable pedals angle
From 20 to 52* degree ( set on 20 degree with brakes applied = 0 degree) 52* - can be extended up to 62 degree with additional base plate

Centering spring strenght adjustment
Centering spring strenght adjustment
Fine tuneable

2x positions for centering spring
2x positions for centering spring
To achieve stronger or weaker force toward the end of pedal deflection while force near the center remains

Exchangeable CAM profile
Exchangeable CAM profile
to achieve different centering feel. Pedals come with 2x profiles standard. More profiles will be possible to order to reflect realistic strenght of different aircrafts

Wall spacers
Wall spacers
Adjustable pedal position from the wall

- Rudder Axis - Contactless magnetic sensor with true resolution of 4096 positions
- Adjustable foot plates swivel angle toward outside (watch video)
- 4x different strenght of Toe brakes, adjustable
- Replaceable foot plates with different style. DIY friendly – you can make your own
- Four holes for fixing pedals to any base surface
- Sturdy Composite material construction with some aluminium parts, 17 bearings
- Made by CNC machining to achieve highest acuracy
- Approved to apply 40 kg of force on each foot plate ( In vertical, horizontal or combined direction. Pedals are tested on lot more, but safety limit is 40 kg)
- 12 bit USB Plug and play controller ( resolution of 4096 positions for all axes). Compatible with Win XP/Vista/7
- Pedals include allen hex key for making adjustments and 2m USB cable for PC connection


Slaw uses contactless magnetic sensors(digital) and a stop plate instead of a Cam to control the centering of the yaw axis. Toe breaks have adjustable pitch and the pedals have 3 settings of width adjustment.The springs tension of both the yaw and toe breaks is weaker then I was expecting it to be.
I have to say I was expecting a heavier spring tension with Slaw's pedal but found that even when adding the extra tension spring,the yaw feels quite weak. The toe break tension needs the most work. It is way too weak. Barely resting my foot on the pedals I can feel the pedals tipping downward. The range of motion on both the pedals and yaw axis are well done. Like Milan's I feel both Slaw and milan's pedals have the perfect range of motion.

Slaw specifications:
http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3801659/Rudder_Pedals_(_like_BF109F)

axes – 3.
-18+4 ball-bearings.
- possibility of regulation of distance between platforms of pedals – 350 mm. 380 mm. and 410 mm.
- a working course – 160 mm. 175 mm. and 190 mm. respectively.
-a working angle of the wheel brake – 27 degrees
-possibility of regulation of slope angle of a site of a pedal – 30, 37, 44 and 50 degrees.
- length of a site of a pedal – 270, 280 and 290 mm.
-a material – steel, aluminum.
- electronic includes digital and analog sensors based on the effect of magnetic resistance.
-overall dimensions – 460x260x220 mm.
- mass – 6000 grams.


Edited by Slaw (06-26-2013 02:04)



What really separates these pedals apart?

When it come to the Yaw action of the pedal Milan's Cam technique is far superior. The feel has more control and gives a true feel of center. Slaw's pedal relies on a rubber stopper plate in the middle to center the yaw axis. without a Cam this feels a bit awkward and instead of a steady gradual movement the action relies completely on the inadequate spring tension.

Milan's Cam:


Slaw's rubber stopper plate:


My final assessment:

Both pedals sensors are laser accurate in any game or sim. Both pedals were plug in play out of the box. Both pedals are very ridged, sturdy and well built. A dead tie when is comes to sensor accuracy.
Milan's design, over all feel and control is the champion of these 2 great pedals in my opinion.

Slaw's pedals are heavy duty and super ridged. Top notch magnetic frictionless sensors and well built. But the lack of spring tension on both yaw and toe breaks, lack of a cam to control tension(feel)and centering of the yaw axis put his design in 2nd place.
I think if Slaw was to allow for pedal angel adjustment(horizontal), Go to a Cam tension/centering design for the yaw axis and use heavier springs He would have thee best hand made privately produced Rudder pedal on the market.


I just want to thank Slaw and Milan for making such awesome pedals and allowing us flight simmers to have an alternative to the assortment of garbage that's being produced by commercial companies. I had almost given up all hope of being able to enjoy flying with accurate, sturdy, good feeling pedals until I found these guys on the web. Thank you Slaw and Milan for completing the flight sim experience!





I'll be replacing these horrible Saitek "combat pedals" with Slaw's pedal at my home in the country.









And I'll continue to use Milans pedals at my primary residence.



Last edited by H1TMAN_ACTUA1; 08/05/15 04:02 AM.

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#3977928 - 07/08/14 07:40 AM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Hello everyone, I will correct in pedals Slaw hall sensors are not installed, they installed digital magnetoresistive sensor, sensor accuracy 0.02 degree per 1 report.


Last edited by Slava; 07/08/14 07:45 AM.
#3978030 - 07/08/14 02:20 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Yes my bad. they are "hal" like magnetic sensors. Zero friction just like hal sensors.


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#3978060 - 07/08/14 03:21 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Just FYI - MFG Crosswind use similar magnetoresistive sensor (analog?) for rudder axis - integrated in USB controller - and conventional HALL sensor for brake axis.

Sokol1

#3978064 - 07/08/14 03:26 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: Sokol1]  
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If I remember right Milan's are all digital?

either way the sensors on both Slaw and Milan are super accurate and work great.

Both pedals are amazing and show true craftsmanship and Enginuity.


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#3978074 - 07/08/14 03:47 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Thanks very much for this review Hitman.
I'll eventually be in the market to replace my CH pedals and I've been looking at both of these. Given their cost I never thought I see a side-by-side comparison review. That said, I'm still not sure which I'd go for since it seems like one can't really go wrong with either!


looks very modernishy-phoney-windows eighty-tabletty like

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#3978079 - 07/08/14 03:53 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Originally Posted By: H1TMAN_ACTUA1
If I remember right Milan's are all digital?

either way the sensors on both Slaw and Milan are super accurate and work great.

Both pedals are amazing and show true craftsmanship and Enginuity.


All wrong in pedals Milan all analog sensors. And in pedals Slaw all digital sensors, I know better, because I have developed a controller for pedals Slaw.

#3978100 - 07/08/14 04:30 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: Sokol1]  
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http://mfg.simundza.com/mfgcrosswind.php

Milan:
Differential Toe Brakes axes
20 degree of pedal rotation. Reading by hall sensor with resolution of 2048 positions

Adjustable pedals angle
Adjustable pedals angle
From 20 to 52* degree ( set on 20 degree with brakes applied = 0 degree) 52* - can be extended up to 62 degree with additional base plate

Centering spring strenght adjustment
Centering spring strenght adjustment
Fine tuneable

2x positions for centering spring
2x positions for centering spring
To achieve stronger or weaker force toward the end of pedal deflection while force near the center remains

Exchangeable CAM profile
Exchangeable CAM profile
to achieve different centering feel. Pedals come with 2x profiles standard. More profiles will be possible to order to reflect realistic strenght of different aircrafts

Wall spacers
Wall spacers
Adjustable pedal position from the wall

- Rudder Axis - Contactless magnetic sensor with true resolution of 4096 positions
- Adjustable foot plates swivel angle toward outside (watch video)
- 4x different strenght of Toe brakes, adjustable
- Replaceable foot plates with different style. DIY friendly – you can make your own
- Four holes for fixing pedals to any base surface
- Sturdy Composite material construction with some aluminium parts, 17 bearings
- Made by CNC machining to achieve highest acuracy
- Approved to apply 40 kg of force on each foot plate ( In vertical, horizontal or combined direction. Pedals are tested on lot more, but safety limit is 40 kg)
- 12 bit USB Plug and play controller ( resolution of 4096 positions for all axes). Compatible with Win XP/Vista/7
- Pedals include allen hex key for making adjustments and 2m USB cable for PC connection


NZXT H440: WIN 8.1pro(UEFI)(G-sync)
EVGA X79-DARK: 4930k(GTX980)ROG swift PG278Q-Gsync
EVGA X79-SLI: 3930K(GTX980)Acer XB270H-Gsync
2xOCZ VECTOR SSD:
G.Skill RipJawsZ 16GB 2133mhz 9-11-10-28:
SOUND BLASTER Z:
Thrustmaster Warthog\X55 HOTAS:MFG crosswind\Saitek-combat-pro rudder pedals:TrackIR
#3978106 - 07/08/14 04:38 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: Cold_Gambler]  
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Your welcome, I had to replace those Saitek combat pedals. they're so bad, horrible.

I really feel like Milan has the best feel and design.


Now if Milan was to make his pedals out of steel opposed to composite material...wow.


If Slaw was to implement a Cam instead of a stop plate...wow...


As they are now, Milan has the best feel of true center and control. The cam is the key to this feeling of center and control. the Cam also creates a progressive tension.

Last edited by H1TMAN_ACTUA1; 07/08/14 05:46 PM.

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EVGA X79-SLI: 3930K(GTX980)Acer XB270H-Gsync
2xOCZ VECTOR SSD:
G.Skill RipJawsZ 16GB 2133mhz 9-11-10-28:
SOUND BLASTER Z:
Thrustmaster Warthog\X55 HOTAS:MFG crosswind\Saitek-combat-pro rudder pedals:TrackIR
#3978107 - 07/08/14 04:39 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: Slava]  
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not according to Milan:

read his specs. Hall digital for toe breaks. Magnetic frictionless for Yaw axis.


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EVGA X79-SLI: 3930K(GTX980)Acer XB270H-Gsync
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Thrustmaster Warthog\X55 HOTAS:MFG crosswind\Saitek-combat-pro rudder pedals:TrackIR
#3978330 - 07/08/14 09:55 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Quote:
All wrong in pedals Milan all analog sensors. And in pedals Slaw all digital sensors, I know better, because I have developed a controller for pedals Slaw.


Originally Posted By: H1TMAN_ACTUA1
not according to Milan:

read his specs. Hall digital for toe breaks. Magnetic frictionless for Yaw axis.


Both pedals use for Yaw (rudder axis) similar kind of magnetic sensor (Magnetic Field Sensor) (1)- the difference is that Slava (Komaroff?) sensor communication (BUS) with the USB controller is done in digital mode (binary code) due use of ADC (converter) integrated in sensor PCB.

In Milan pedals the communication is done in analog way (voltage variation) - like a pot' - both for Yaw and Toe Brakes.

In Tm T.16000M and Warthog the HALL sensor use communicate in digital mode.

(1) In general terms, the basic difference between HALL sensor and Magnetic Field Sensor (used in automotive industry) is the way that magnetic field is used.
HALL measured the force or magnetic field, Magnetic Field Sensor measured his direction, this make then less susceptible to interferences.

Of course the Magnetic Field Sensor in digital mode is a more refined solution. wink

H1TMAN_ACTUA1

You are the person to say if this "digital x analog" make differences in real use (games), since own both types. smile

Sokol1

#3978349 - 07/08/14 10:19 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Thanks for that explanation and details of how those sensors work.
All in all the accuracy of the sensors no one can tell the difference when flying. Both are super accurate and both pedals sensors are high quality whether or not it's analog or digital. The actual mechanics (action of movement) is what separates these pedals apart. not the sensors.

If you were to ask me "Does the Saitek X55 throttle feel more responsive or as accurate as the TM. Warthog throttle" Id say no, they both have the same responsiveness. The warthog uses Hal sensors and the x55 throttle is analog. No one can tell or feel the difference in that. I can go on and on about the x55/warthog. Both are great and I'm really in the middle with both of those. I can say I like the feel and button layout of the x55 throttle better then the warthog thottle.

The fact that Milan's cam design works better and allows the true feel of centering and progresive tension is what makes this pedal the winner. When it comes down to it, the mechanics of the action is what seperates these two pedals apart.


I

Last edited by H1TMAN_ACTUA1; 07/09/14 07:12 PM.

NZXT H440: WIN 8.1pro(UEFI)(G-sync)
EVGA X79-DARK: 4930k(GTX980)ROG swift PG278Q-Gsync
EVGA X79-SLI: 3930K(GTX980)Acer XB270H-Gsync
2xOCZ VECTOR SSD:
G.Skill RipJawsZ 16GB 2133mhz 9-11-10-28:
SOUND BLASTER Z:
Thrustmaster Warthog\X55 HOTAS:MFG crosswind\Saitek-combat-pro rudder pedals:TrackIR
#3982989 - 07/19/14 12:52 AM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Finally made it out to the my place in the country and with great excitement have finally ditched those horrible Saitek combat pedals.


NZXT H440: WIN 8.1pro(UEFI)(G-sync)
EVGA X79-DARK: 4930k(GTX980)ROG swift PG278Q-Gsync
EVGA X79-SLI: 3930K(GTX980)Acer XB270H-Gsync
2xOCZ VECTOR SSD:
G.Skill RipJawsZ 16GB 2133mhz 9-11-10-28:
SOUND BLASTER Z:
Thrustmaster Warthog\X55 HOTAS:MFG crosswind\Saitek-combat-pro rudder pedals:TrackIR
#3983141 - 07/19/14 04:15 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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The more I use Slaw pedals the more I wish I had just bought another pair of Milans.

2 different worlds when it come to these pedals. I can't say enough of the cam.

The rang of motion is too long on Slaw pedal as well.


NZXT H440: WIN 8.1pro(UEFI)(G-sync)
EVGA X79-DARK: 4930k(GTX980)ROG swift PG278Q-Gsync
EVGA X79-SLI: 3930K(GTX980)Acer XB270H-Gsync
2xOCZ VECTOR SSD:
G.Skill RipJawsZ 16GB 2133mhz 9-11-10-28:
SOUND BLASTER Z:
Thrustmaster Warthog\X55 HOTAS:MFG crosswind\Saitek-combat-pro rudder pedals:TrackIR
#3988360 - 07/30/14 04:02 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: Sokol1]  
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Originally Posted By: Sokol1
...Both pedals use for Yaw (rudder axis) similar kind of magnetic sensor (Magnetic Field Sensor) (1)- the difference is that Slava (Komaroff?) sensor communication (BUS) with the USB controller is done in digital mode (binary code) due use of ADC (converter) integrated in sensor PCB...
(1) In general terms, the basic difference between HALL sensor and Magnetic Field Sensor (used in automotive industry) is the way that magnetic field is used.
HALL measured the force or magnetic field, Magnetic Field Sensor measured his direction, this make then less susceptible to interferences.
Of course the Magnetic Field Sensor in digital mode is a more refined solution. wink
...
Sokol1

Hi.
No. I'm not Slava. Slava has developed the controller.
Yes. Magnetic resistors react only to a magnetic field direction.
In my sensor (Rotary Angle Magnet Sensor - R.A.M.S.) the magnetoresistive technology with special mathematical digital processing of signals is used. It allows to have considerably more a straight-line characteristic, than at classical Hall-sensors (for example SS495A). Besides RAMS have easier installation and adjustment of a sensor control and tolerance to external influences. Output - digital.

To learn and successfully to fly in simulators it is possible on nonlinear sensors (for example Hall-sensors on Saitek X52). But modern digital sensors are in addition to the advanced functional advantages also a question of prestige, aspiration to perfection.
I think, what exactly therefore Slaw has chosen my sensors for installation in his pedals.
If not to go into detail of configuration of pedals Slaw, that, undoubtedly, contactless digital magnetoresistive sensors are one of highlights of these pedals.
About RAMS (rus)
Best regards.

#3988363 - 07/30/14 04:07 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Yah Saitek, slaw, milan, thrustmaster I think no one can tell the difference in sensor accuracy when flying. Looking at a graph and the feel of the device when flying or 2 different things.


The focus of my review is the overall feel and performance of the pedals. Milan's design blow's slaw's cam less design away.


NZXT H440: WIN 8.1pro(UEFI)(G-sync)
EVGA X79-DARK: 4930k(GTX980)ROG swift PG278Q-Gsync
EVGA X79-SLI: 3930K(GTX980)Acer XB270H-Gsync
2xOCZ VECTOR SSD:
G.Skill RipJawsZ 16GB 2133mhz 9-11-10-28:
SOUND BLASTER Z:
Thrustmaster Warthog\X55 HOTAS:MFG crosswind\Saitek-combat-pro rudder pedals:TrackIR
#3988386 - 07/30/14 04:47 PM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Originally Posted By: H1TMAN_ACTUA1
Yah saitek, slaw, milan, thrustmaster I think no one can tell the difference in sensor accuracy when flying. Looking at a graph and the feel of the device when flying or 2 different things...

You are absolutely right.
Originally Posted By: Komaroff
...
To learn and successfully to fly in simulators it is possible on nonlinear sensors (for example Hall-sensors on Saitek X52)...

Just details of an electronic stuffing of pedals too matter for a complete picture of the review. Even if it is not visible at first. I always try to evaluate the device from different angles.
Great review and comparison. Thank you.

#3990867 - 08/05/14 01:14 AM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
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Hi All
I wanted to thank H1TMAN_ACTUA1 for making a comparison of rudder pedals. Due to price of both pedals I never thought someone will buy both and compare :-) Now I'm glad someone did.

I belive review is honest opinion from a user perspective, not going into technical details about sensor type.
I also agree with a few statements here, that such resolution cannot be percieved by a human leg. My belief is that very well trained Human leg can only make precise movements of about 2000 positions across rudder movement range...that is why reviewer did not notice any difference while flying...if there is any difference anyway.

About sensors and electronics.


I've seen a lot of writing about electronics and sensors here, so I want to make a few clarifications.

MFG Crosswind rudder pedals still use:
- GVL224 electronics , a proven manufacturer also producing for Baur BRD...reason why I choose him is because his device is already sucessfully used over 3 years now without complaints.
- Rudder axis - Analog magnetoresistive senosor KMZ41 - implemented on main PCB
- Brake axis - Analog Hall sensor Allegro A1302
- Since 01.10.2013 Firmware and software for pedals is produced by MFG team, while GVL224 provide only electronics

In a few words...komaroff did a honorable job of producing digital sensor, but it is NOT better, or worse than my existing analog sensor. I never tried Komaroff sensor myself, and I don't know what actual magnetoresistive sensor and signal conditioning IC komaroff use...but I can tell such statement on the following arguments :

- Komaroff probably use same analog KMZ41, but with signal conditioning IC that provide digital 3 wire PWM output
( possible that I'm wrong, and komaroff use Austrian microsystems sensor, type I can only speculate since it's not published).

In any case...whatever sensor Komaroff use...It probably was on my testbed during last year. I've tried industry finest solution for development of my own electronics and I can tell you a few words about it :
- I did not find sensor with precision capable to sense any better than 0.022 degree of rotation...no sensor can do that. Transfered into raw positions in windows...this mean 45,45 values per degree of rotation.

Now...let's get back to mechanical design of the pedals to see how this compares. I give you a simple drawing

Purpose of this picture : Assuming both mechanical pedal styles have EQUAL WIDTH, and EQUAL RUDDER RANGE,...design with narrow parralelogram principle - like MFG Crosswind - has almost DOUBLE rotation on rudder axis

Now...let's get this into REAL RESOLUTION ACHIEVED BY BEST SENSORS IN THE WORLD, IN OPTIMAL CONDITIONS
MFG Crosswind rudder principle = 34 degree x 2 = 68 degree x 45,45 positions = approx 3090 TRUE POSITIONS
Other style rudder pedals ( baloo, slaw, simped etc.) = 18 degree x 2 = 36 x 45,45 positions = approx 1636 TRUE POSITIONS

NOTE : I'm not claiming that my pedals rotate 68 degrees, or that slaws rotate 36 degrees... I draw IMAGINED characteristics of both pedal style to clarify importance of mechanical design.
Don't forget that I've just revealed one of many secrets that MFG Crosswind design has in it's sleeve...just for clarification purpose. I hope it's secret well published.


ANALOG VS DIGITAL
Which one is better depend on a purpose of a sensor and sensor distance from ADC ( analog to digital conversion ).
In a perfect enviroment there is no difference, but analog signal can pick up noise on it's way to ADC if there are possible disturbances...so if signal travel longer distance - digital is better ( MFG pedals sensor is on PCB..therefore travel only few centimeters, brake sensors use best quality shielded cable)
Digital also has advantage over analog in cases where sensors are powered with unregulated voltage because voltage drift will also affect sensor reading - solved by supply voltage regulation
However, nothing can beat the speed of analog signal and a fast ADC chip

For the purpose of comparison...every sensing element...hall or magnetoresistive...is measured in Analog domain, goes trough Analog to digital conversion ( ADC) and in trough some sort of signal conditioning threatment...le't draw a simple flowchart of that magnet position to our joystick reading conversion

Gain amplifier
: used to amplify signat that hall or magnetoresistive element pick up. Most sensors have it fixed so such sensors have FIXED MAGNETIC SENSITIVITY. Some sensors can program Gain in factory, or even reprogram gain amplifier strenght "on the fly" ( like MLX 90363 )
MCU - Microcontroller, main chip to communicate with USB...can be poor or a solid good one, can have integrated various functions such as 10bit, 12bit, or even 16bit ADC unit, other communication protocols for digital sensors, buttons, etc.
ADC - analog to digital converter
DAC - digital to analog converter
PWM - pulse width modulation

CLASSIC HALL SENSOR ( Allegro A1302 or similar)
Hall element - gain amp. - ratiometric or linear voltage output ( analog) - ADC - Signal conditioning (on MCU) - USB output

Classic automotive setup KMZ41 magnetoresistive sensor - analog output
dual magnetoresistive bridge - 2x signal analog output ( sine and cosine) --- //chip with gain amp., ADC - conditioning - DAC analog output // ---wire ---- ADC( on MCU) - USB output

Classic automotive setup KMZ41 magnetoresistive sensor - digital PWM output
same as analog, but signal output from signal conditioning chip is not analog but 3 wire PWM signal...so there is no ADC conversion on main MCU

Alternative setup for KMZ41 - rely on usage of smart, powerful MCU
dual magnetoresistive bridge - 2x signal analog output - 2x gain amplifier - 2x ADC input on main MCU - powerfull signal conditioning on main MCU - USB output


There are other sensors , like NXP KMA200 magnetoresistor, or Melexis MLX90363...which have both sensing element, gain amplifier, ADC, signal conditioning on a single chip...and can give analog, PWM or SPI output toward MCU.

SPI is very intresting protocol. It is also DIGITAL, but these sensors can also communicate in BOTH WAYS....so signal is not just OUTPUT...but main MCU can communicate and change settings directly ON SENSOR.

There are other possibilities, but I will not complicate things even more :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAGNETORESISTOR VS. CLASSIC HALL ... magnetoresistor is better in most situations
MAGNETORESISTOR VS Melexis 3d Hall ---- MELEXIS IS BETTER !!!!

Reason is very simple. While magnetoresistors do measure angle of magnetic field, which is better than classic hall, they output signal using fixed gain amplifiers. However...signal output values CHANGE WHEN MAGNET DISTANCE CHANGED !!!!...which make magnetoresistor very sensitive to mechanical tolerance of a device

MELEXIS 3d HALL technology is BETTER as sensory is truthly smart. It has automatic gain control. It has multiple hall elements to measure magnetic field trough three axis. For example...if magnet distance changes sensor will only pick up more or less noise...but actual output values WILL NOT CHANGE !!!
Due to built in formulas for compensation it is also better for DIY..as it tolerate more misalignment of magnet and sensor
It is possible to use stronger magnets at only 1mm distance from sensor. In that case automatic gain will be automaticly reduced to minimum...so sensor is less likely to pick up magnetic disturbances than other sensors...my test show that in such setup MLX90363 sensor don't pick up disturbance of a moving M10 bolt on a distance of only 3 cm !!!!...mission impossible for other tested sensors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You probably guessed it so far....that I've chosen digital sensor MLX90363 for my new electronics which should be ready soon.
My choice for a such Next generation sensor is because it can also serve in various other situations...Joystick for example :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I already see a question comming up something like :
What is the difference of MFG Crossind pedals with New Digital sensor VS current magnetoresistive sensor ??

Answer is : almost NONE !!!!
To explain myself. New digital sensor MLX 90363 has built in automatic gain, temperature reading, noise filtering, hysteresis filtering, also smaller non linearity error on a sensor itself...can read angles up to 360 degrees...but what does that all mean for end user of MFG Crossind rudder pedals - NOTHING...since these features are already built in my current firmware. If you followed how sensor to USB workflow is going...you probably guessed it right...very powerfull MCU does all the job for analog sensor...while next gen digital trixis hall does it all itselff, unleashing the power of MCU for other operations

Truth be told.... I AM THE ONE TO BENEFIT FROM NEW SENSOR BECAUSE :
- I will not have worry about centering magnet as I do now :-)
- no worries about small magnet displacement - now I have to be very carefull
- no worries about magnet distance...now I need to be very very very carefull about that :-)

END user...will not notice digital VS analog sensor...won't see a difference


Happy simming to you all
Milan

#3990928 - 08/05/14 05:16 AM Re: Slaw VS. Milan the battle of the pedals [Re: H1TMAN_ACTUA1]  
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 63
H1TMAN_ACTUA1 Offline
Dustin G
H1TMAN_ACTUA1  Offline
Dustin G
Junior Member

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 63
Newport beach CA
Wow thank you for that coherent Break down and bravo to your enginuity!


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