How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX?

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#3966938 - 06/12/14 10:15 PM How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX?
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 ricnunes Senior Member
ricnunes Senior Member Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 Portugal	Recently I decided to reinstall IL2 Sturmovik 1946, mainly for playing in the Pacific scenario/setting and after searching mod and extra stuff for IL2, I found the HSFX mod (version 7.02 which goes along with the most recent IL2 1946 4.12.2 version) which I found very interesting because it includes the TBD Devastator (AI and flyable), TBF/M Avenger (flyable), among other extra aircraft and both the TBD and TBF/M are aircraft that were badly missing in Pacific Fighters (IMO, you can't have a good Pacific scenario without both these aircraft). All of this went fine, HSFX also has some other interesting features such as sounds (much better than stock) but I noticed something that I simply don't like (actually I hate) in HSFX which is how bombs damage certain types of ships, namely Destroyers. For example, while flying an SBD Dauntless armed with 3 500lb bombs I found that if I hit 2 of those 500lb bombs that there's no apparent damage on the Destroyer and even if I manage to hit the 3rd (centerline) bomb (after hitting with the first 2) again no visible damage is noticed on the destroyer, despite seeing the impact explosions. No way that a WWII destroyer would survive 2 500lb bombs, at least without being severely damaged. So after this, I decided to revert to Stock install (using JSGME) and I can confirm that if I hit the same exact destroyer with 2 of those exact same 500lb bombs (again flying the SBD) that I either destroy the destroyer or at least it becomes severely damaged (happened once and massive smoke and fire was observed on the destroyer). Resuming, this means that I prefer the stock bomb and/or ship damage much more than those of HSFX but I don't want to loose HSFX because of all those extra aircraft. So my question is: Is there a way to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? If yes, how? Thanks in advance for replies...

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#3966965 - 06/12/14 11:28 PM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]
Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 2,185 Aviar Member
Aviar Member Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 2,185 Passaic County, NJ USA	I'm wondering if you are playing HSFX in 'Expert' mode. If so, try normal mode. You may see a difference. Aviar Intel i7-4790 4-Core @3.60GHz Asus Z97-C Motherboard 16GB DDR-3 1600 SDRAM @800 MHz NVIDIA GTX 760 - 2GB Creative SB ZX SBX Logitech X-530 5.1 Speakers 27" AOC LED - 2752 Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard CH FighterStick-Pro Throttle-Pro Pedals Logitech G13 Gameboard GoFlight GF-T8 Module WIN 8.1

#3967063 - 06/13/14 05:12 AM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,537 vpmedia Member
vpmedia Member Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,537 Hungary	I recommend asking for help at the il-2 modding website: sas1946.com. My Skins My campaigns DBW-1916

#3967101 - 06/13/14 08:25 AM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,537 vpmedia Member
vpmedia Member Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,537 Hungary	update: it seems to me that the ships ini has the hull damage values (number of required hits from mg and bombs) for different ship classes, hence it can be reverted to the stock values easily my ships ini from DBW also has some strange values for some classes which destroyer did you use for testing? My Skins My campaigns DBW-1916

#3967102 - 06/13/14 08:43 AM

Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,537 vpmedia Offline

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vpmedia

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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,537
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Extracted stock ships ini, this isnt the entire file just the part which needs to be changed

Code:

// ships.ini
//
//  All characteristics of BIG (!) ships are stored in this
//  text section file.
//
// Note: comments with 'FIXME:' means "to do" tasks
//       comments with '??' marks estimated values, because real values unknown
//
//----------------------------------------------------------------------
// User-defined sections with strength parameters

// Gun Durability

[strength_GunTiny]
MinShotCaliber    0.00762
NumShots          30
MinHitExplTNT     2
NumHitExpl        4
MinNearExplTNT    4
NumNearExpl       7

[strength_GunSmall]
MinShotCaliber    0.0127
NumShots          40
MinHitExplTNT     4
NumHitExpl        4
MinNearExplTNT    8
NumNearExpl       7

[strength_GunMedium]
MinShotCaliber    0.02
NumShots          50
MinHitExplTNT     6
NumHitExpl        6
MinNearExplTNT    12
NumNearExpl       10.5

[strength_GunLarge]
MinShotCaliber    0.037
NumShots          82
MinHitExplTNT     8
NumHitExpl        8
MinNearExplTNT    32
NumNearExpl       14

[strength_GunHuge]
MinShotCaliber    0.045
NumShots          90
MinHitExplTNT     10
NumHitExpl        10
MinNearExplTNT    45
NumNearExpl       16

// Hull Durability

[strength_HullTiny]
MinShotCaliber    0.00762
NumShots          80
MinHitExplTNT     4
NumHitExpl        4
MinNearExplTNT    5 //8
NumNearExpl       14

[strength_HullSmall]
MinShotCaliber    0.02
NumShots          84
MinHitExplTNT     6
NumHitExpl        10
MinNearExplTNT    15 //24
NumNearExpl       17.5

[strength_HullMedium]
MinShotCaliber    0.037
NumShots          106
MinHitExplTNT     10
NumHitExpl        11.2
MinNearExplTNT    32 //49
NumNearExpl       16

[strength_HullSub] //--Maraz: submerged submarine, more easily damaged by nearby explosion
MinShotCaliber    0.037
NumShots          106
MinHitExplTNT     10
NumHitExpl        11.2
MinNearExplTNT    25
NumNearExpl       16

[strength_HullLarge]
MinShotCaliber    0.05
NumShots          118
MinHitExplTNT     10
NumHitExpl        18
MinNearExplTNT    50 //70
NumNearExpl       18

[strength_HullHuge]
MinShotCaliber    0.1
NumShots          92
MinHitExplTNT     10
NumHitExpl        36
MinNearExplTNT    56 //70
NumNearExpl       36

[strength_HullEnorm]
MinShotCaliber    0.203
NumShots          148
MinHitExplTNT     64
NumHitExpl        16
MinNearExplTNT    100 //130
NumNearExpl       32

[strength_Invulnerable]
MinShotCaliber    0.203
NumShots          1000
MinHitExplTNT     1000
NumHitExpl        1000
MinNearExplTNT    1000
NumNearExpl       1000

My Skins
My campaigns
DBW-1916

#3967108 - 06/13/14 09:05 AM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: Aviar]
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 ricnunes Senior Member
ricnunes Senior Member Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 Portugal	Originally Posted By: Aviar I'm wondering if you are playing HSFX in 'Expert' mode. If so, try normal mode. You may see a difference. Aviar The expert mode is an "extra mod" that comes with HSFX which must be activated thru JSGME, right? If that's the case than no I'm not playing on Expert mode. Actually I tried both modes (Normal and Expert) and didn't notice any difference on this regard.

#3967117 - 06/13/14 09:23 AM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 ricnunes Senior Member
ricnunes Senior Member Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 Portugal	@vpmedia, Thanks for the suggestions, I will try editing the "ships.ini" file and I'll post back my results. The destroyer that I've been firing upon is a Japanese Akizuki class. I now that these class of destroyer are big (according to the IL2 encyclopedia, the biggest destroyer class of WWII) but nevertheless it's not fun and neither realistic for that destroyer (or any other destroyer for that matter) to be able to withstand with a couple (or even three) 500lb bomb without being destroyed or at least severely damaged. I have no doubts that the Stock 4.12.2 is much more realistic than HSFX on this regards.

#3967130 - 06/13/14 10:07 AM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 ricnunes Senior Member
ricnunes Senior Member Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 Portugal	Ok, just tried editing the "ships.ini" file but unfortunally without success. I see no differences having the HSFX "ships.ini" compared to the edited "ships.ini" file using your values. I could be wrong but I'm starting to believe that the problem isn't probably related to the Ships themselves but it's probably related to the explosive power of bombs (in this case the 500lb bomb). Could it be that the HSFX mod reduces the explosive power of bombs? For example if I hit that destroyer with a 1600lb bomb the destroyer will indeed be destroyed. I would really appreciate other suggestions, thanks in advance.

#3967537 - 06/13/14 11:06 PM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]
Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 2,185 Aviar Member
Aviar Member Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 2,185 Passaic County, NJ USA	I did some testing in HSFX-7 (non-Expert mode). I skip-bombed an IJN Akizuki class destroyer with a P-40M armed with a 500lb bomb. First I hit the stern of the ship. On the second run (I needed to use unlimited ammo in order to do this test) I hit the bow area...again no visible damage. On the third run I hit the ship dead center, again with no visible damage. (This was three hits to the same ship in the same mission.) As I understand it (someone with more knowledge please correct me if I am wrong) some, most likely the larger ships, now have a more complex DM (damage model). In other words, they are modelled with more than one 'compartment'. So, if you hit a large ship in two seperate compartments, it may not have the same effect as hitting it twice in the SAME compartment. For instance, I attempted another test, but this time I skip-bombed the destroyer with a P-38, armed with two 500lb bombs. I hit the destroyer dead center with both bombs (I am assuming in the same compartment) and it sunk! Conclusion (HSFX-7): So, in the first test I hit the DD in 3 seperate compartments (my assumption), each time with a 500lb bomb. I never saw any visible signs of damage. It did not sink. In my second test, I hit the DD dead center with just two 500lb bombs (again, assuming both bombs hit the same compartment). The DD was immediately destroyed. This test showed that the Akizuki CAN be sunk with two 500lb bombs. (The assumption here is that they both need to hit the same compartment.) **I continued testing using the P-38 (a single drop of two 500lb bombs) with some interesting results. When I hit either the bow or the stern with the two 500lb bombs, visible damage consisting of fire and smoke appeared in the area of the hits. However, the ship did not sink. On the other hand, every time I hit the DD dead center with two 500lb bombs, it sunk. This kind of leads me to think that the Akizuki has at least 3 compartments, with the center one being more vulnerable (the engine area?). So if I were attacking the Akizuki, I would try and center my hits in the middle section of the ship. Testing 4.12.2 (stock): Basically, I got identical results as compared to HSFX-7. Aviar Intel i7-4790 4-Core @3.60GHz Asus Z97-C Motherboard 16GB DDR-3 1600 SDRAM @800 MHz NVIDIA GTX 760 - 2GB Creative SB ZX SBX Logitech X-530 5.1 Speakers 27" AOC LED - 2752 Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard CH FighterStick-Pro Throttle-Pro Pedals Logitech G13 Gameboard GoFlight GF-T8 Module WIN 8.1

#3967561 - 06/14/14 12:55 AM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 490 4Shades Member
4Shades Member Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 490 Perth, Western Australia	Quote: most likely the larger ships, now have a more complex DM (damage model) IL-2 has been like that for many years. It is best to attack the same part of the ship with successive bomb/torpedo strikes to get a rapid kill. HSFX also has extra damage logging features that stock 4.12.2 doesn't, so if you look at your eventlog after a mission you can see exactly how much you have damaged a ship and which compartments you hit etc. This is explained at SEOW Wiki. The damage logging is useful to help damage to be carried over from one mission to the next when attacking capital ships etc. Cheers, 4S IV/JG7_4Shades SEOW Developer

#3967562 - 06/14/14 01:05 AM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 ricnunes Senior Member
ricnunes Senior Member Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 Portugal	Aviar, Well my experience is completely different than yours regarding HSFX-7! Even when skip bombing and hitting with 3 (three) 500lb bombs in the same area of the Akizuki destroyer all that I get is a burning destroyer and sometimes it doesn't even burn at all but nevertheless it never sink/destroy. When dive bombing the results are even worse! (as it was mentioned above) With Stock variant my results are completely different in where in most cases I can guarantee a destroyed ship if I hit with 3 (three) 500lb bombs in the same area or in the worse case scenario the destroyer stars burning. I even reinstalled IL2 1946 again and the HSFX-7 mod (plus patches) with the exact same results! BTW, as suggested by someone in the SAS site, I used the ModAct mod and while not exactly as stock at least it isn't as bad as HSFX regarding bombing (and bomb destructive power) but it isn't as "easy" as Stock and has the downsize that it seems to also change Torpedo behaviour (while HSFX don't) and many times I can't destroy one of those Akizuki destroyers with a single Torpedo a thing that doesn't happen either with Stock or HSFX! I just which that there was a mod for IL2 1946 with the TBD Devastator and TBF/M Avenger aircraft but leaves everything else as Stock! Is it that hard to achieve this? Sorry about my frustration...

#3967660 - 06/14/14 11:26 AM Re: How to use stock bomb/ship damage with HSFX? [Re: ricnunes]
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 ricnunes Senior Member
ricnunes Senior Member Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,840 Portugal	After doing some more uninstalls, re-installs and tests using HSFX, SAS Modact and Stock I found that I'm enjoying SAS Modact quite more than HSFX in many regards, specially regarding the ship damage models which in SAS Modact are indeed much closer to the Stock which is exactly what I want. There's only one thing that I'm not enjoying in SAS Modact compared to HSFX which is the TBD/F Avenger flight model. In SAS Modact the TBD/F Avenger flight model is very twitchy and sensitive (specially on roll) while in HSFX the aircraft is very stable which is that I would expect from an aircraft such as the Avenger. BTW, wouldn't there be a way of replacing the SAS Modact Avenger by the HSFX Avenger but still using SAS Modact? Thanks in advance for any replies on this regard.

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