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#3956757 - 05/22/14 11:18 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: piston79]  
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Originally Posted By: piston79


OSA again.....



Question.
What is the altitude of the target and why ?

Last edited by ePap; 05/22/14 11:19 AM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3956783 - 05/22/14 12:36 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: ePap]  
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Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: max2012
The question is about OSA-AK there in Greece have AN-64 Apache helicopter as a goal so that is can OSA shoot it down.

The idea of flight altitude 10 meters and documentation of said at least 25 meters, then it turns out the problem.

And why should the training made Stealth I do not understand how the OSA may shoot it down?




How to understand this, can someone explain why the Stealth and AN-64 Apache Helicopter at an altitude of 10 meters.



What do you mean stealth Apache ?
Your (OSA AK) altitude is 260m and helo's alt 10m.If you you mean that you can not see it in PPI it's ok.
I don't know if you mean you can not see it with CARAT.Is that so?

PS: we use AH-64A for training in GREECE and not to shoot them down ... winkngrin


Update.

After short investigation for above issue I can say that Samsim works very well ,close to what expected to see in real !
I used the unit 96 Chios with alt 224m and target(AH-64A) alt 10m at 20km incoming .
You can see it both in PPI and in CARAT as it should.
Target lost in PPI around at 7 km range as it was expected !Still in CARAT .

PS:The only that we can say here is that the above 7km could be 10-12 km in a more realistic base.

#3956946 - 05/22/14 07:34 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Migow]  
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Originally Posted By: Migow
hi hpasp i have many question about sa 8 akm

does sa8 use sidelobe blanking (a omnidirectionnal antenna)?
when working with mti how many pulse does it send before it can change frequency?
does it use intrapulse coding (frequency coded? phase coded?)
what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
a plane can inject early false target ( false target before the real plane) and late target?if( there is no random intrapulse modulation)
the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
if not it can be jammed with a jam that simulate a no newtonian object?
does it has protection against doppler velocity gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)


when enemy use noise jamming on both surveillance radar and tracking radar , is there a way to have range ?
can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
can the enemy jam the SVR ?
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
can the enemy jam the Monopulse Medium beam Missile Guidance Radar ?
what's the missile beacon power , i guess it use frequency hopping , does it use too the spread Spectrum?

when working without mti does it frequency hopping between each pulse?
if it is the case(without mti) a plane can't inject early false target (no false target before the real plane) only late target?
does it has protection against range gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)
does it have protection against blinking jamming ?(2 planes that jam one after other , useless i guess because the camera ?

does it use random prf against target injection?

what modulation the sa8 use?

thx for answer





hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering

#3956952 - 05/22/14 07:44 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Migow]  
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Originally Posted By: Migow
Originally Posted By: Migow
hi hpasp i have many question about sa 8 akm

does sa8 use sidelobe blanking (a omnidirectionnal antenna)?
when working with mti how many pulse does it send before it can change frequency?
does it use intrapulse coding (frequency coded? phase coded?)
what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
a plane can inject early false target ( false target before the real plane) and late target?if( there is no random intrapulse modulation)
the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
if not it can be jammed with a jam that simulate a no newtonian object?
does it has protection against doppler velocity gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)


when enemy use noise jamming on both surveillance radar and tracking radar , is there a way to have range ?
can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
can the enemy jam the SVR ?
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
can the enemy jam the Monopulse Medium beam Missile Guidance Radar ?
what's the missile beacon power , i guess it use frequency hopping , does it use too the spread Spectrum?

when working without mti does it frequency hopping between each pulse?
if it is the case(without mti) a plane can't inject early false target (no false target before the real plane) only late target?
does it has protection against range gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)
does it have protection against blinking jamming ?(2 planes that jam one after other , useless i guess because the camera ?

does it use random prf against target injection?

what modulation the sa8 use?

thx for answer





hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


All these questions are necessary in order to learn how the Samsim works ?
...unless you want to buy a real one... biggrin

#3957220 - 05/23/14 03:49 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: farokh]  
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Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Jamming might not be a problem in real life, but it is in SAM Sim, because there's no way to track a jamming target at night.


Tracking of a noise jamming target in angle with a monopulse design (SSC) is more than easy.
Due to design, angle tracking errors are reduced by "x" magnitudes, compared to non jamming targets.

Arming the missile radio proxy fuse after launch, is a manual choice of the Firing Officer.

As the 9M33M2 can pull 25g during T/T guided flight, so target has to "do magic" to avoid hit.


as i remember sa-4 SCC has got a switch with green lamp to engage with jammer target
but OSA doesnt have any thing like this !

i check all of button an switch around SCC pannel but they doesnt work at all ...

please some one hunt a jammer in lybia


It is the question I want to ask too...but no reply yet?

#3957223 - 05/23/14 03:53 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: DDG167]  
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Originally Posted By: DDG167
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Jamming might not be a problem in real life, but it is in SAM Sim, because there's no way to track a jamming target at night.


Tracking of a noise jamming target in angle with a monopulse design (SSC) is more than easy.
Due to design, angle tracking errors are reduced by "x" magnitudes, compared to non jamming targets.

Arming the missile radio proxy fuse after launch, is a manual choice of the Firing Officer.

As the 9M33M2 can pull 25g during T/T guided flight, so target has to "do magic" to avoid hit.


as i remember sa-4 SCC has got a switch with green lamp to engage with jammer target
but OSA doesnt have any thing like this !

i check all of button an switch around SCC pannel but they doesnt work at all ...

please some one hunt a jammer in lybia


It is the question I want to ask too...but no reply yet?


It is a valid bug, and will be corrected in SAMSIM v928.2...
... that can be downloaded from here:

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

(OSA has the same POMEHA switch, that would arm missile radio proxy fuse just after the launch)
manual page 34 - step 7

Last edited by Hpasp; 05/23/14 04:09 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3957228 - 05/23/14 04:08 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Migow]  
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Originally Posted By: Migow


hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


Don't you think that this is too sensitive information in some countries, which still use SA-8 "Gecko"???

#3957262 - 05/23/14 05:20 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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I know how to prepare the missile and set the fuse, but unable to track the jamming target. You mean this case will be corrected? A good new thumbsup

Many thanks for your excellent work.

Ehhh, I compare Tor-M1 with OSA-AK, it looks like Tor-M1 do not have a POMEHA switch? May Tor-M1 set missile radio proxy fuse automatically?

#3957267 - 05/23/14 05:29 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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OK, I see the update anouncement.
Downloading... cheers

#3957372 - 05/23/14 10:17 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: piston79]  
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Migow


hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


Don't you think that this is too sensitive information in some countries, which still use SA-8 "Gecko"???


the sa 8 has been compromise

#3957480 - 05/24/14 06:13 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Migow]  
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Originally Posted By: Migow
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Migow


hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


Don't you think that this is too sensitive information in some countries, which still use SA-8 "Gecko"???


the sa 8 has been compromise


In Angola during Operations Moduler...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3958054 - 05/25/14 08:41 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: ePap]  
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Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: Migow
Originally Posted By: Migow
hi hpasp i have many question about sa 8 akm

does sa8 use sidelobe blanking (a omnidirectionnal antenna)?
when working with mti how many pulse does it send before it can change frequency?
does it use intrapulse coding (frequency coded? phase coded?)
what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
a plane can inject early false target ( false target before the real plane) and late target?if( there is no random intrapulse modulation)
the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
if not it can be jammed with a jam that simulate a no newtonian object?
does it has protection against doppler velocity gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)


when enemy use noise jamming on both surveillance radar and tracking radar , is there a way to have range ?
can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
can the enemy jam the SVR ?
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
can the enemy jam the Monopulse Medium beam Missile Guidance Radar ?
what's the missile beacon power , i guess it use frequency hopping , does it use too the spread Spectrum?

when working without mti does it frequency hopping between each pulse?
if it is the case(without mti) a plane can't inject early false target (no false target before the real plane) only late target?
does it has protection against range gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)
does it have protection against blinking jamming ?(2 planes that jam one after other , useless i guess because the camera ?

does it use random prf against target injection?

what modulation the sa8 use?

thx for answer





hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


All these questions are necessary in order to learn how the Samsim works ?
...unless you want to buy a real one... biggrin


not about samsim but sa8 i 'd like to know the capability against many jamming technic , thx

Last edited by Migow; 05/25/14 08:42 PM.
#3958181 - 05/26/14 04:33 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: ePap]  
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two in ripple mode

#3959157 - 05/28/14 05:28 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Migow


the sa 8 has been compromise


In Angola during Operations Moduler...



So, anyone with Afrikaans?

#3960409 - 05/30/14 08:58 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Last edited by VOLCHOV; 05/30/14 09:00 PM.
#3960689 - 05/31/14 01:29 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: piston79]  
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Hi everyone!

The question can not be shot in Greece as I understand it, then why is not made clear.

It is not clear, then why did Greece, is not entirely clear.

It is not clear of course!

AN-64 found everything in order to shoot could not work.

#3960698 - 05/31/14 01:56 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: max2012]  
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ePap Offline
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Originally Posted By: max2012

Hi everyone!

The question can not be shot in Greece as I understand it, then why is not made clear.

It is not clear, then why did Greece, is not entirely clear.

It is not clear of course!

AN-64 found everything in order to shoot could not work.


What are you tring to say ?I do not understand rolleyes

#3960701 - 05/31/14 02:14 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: ePap]  
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In Greece, you can shoot or not?

If not, bad of course, I thought that it is possible.

#3960704 - 05/31/14 02:22 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: max2012]  
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Originally Posted By: max2012

In Greece, you can shoot or not?

If not, bad of course, I thought that it is possible.


No you can not.You can train your self in all procedures but to fire ,You can emulate a firing but not to shoot down planes.
In firing places you can fire missiles and shoot down drones.
Go and participate to a historic scenario where real war took place and fire missiles.

Why it's bad?
It is wise ...

PS: maybe Hpasp can create a virtual "nowhere" land where we can fire agaist all kind of available targets . smile2

Last edited by ePap; 05/31/14 02:26 PM.
#3960706 - 05/31/14 02:32 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: ePap]  
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What sense is no sense then no, then why Greece is made at all.

This is very bad, there is no sense then, then let in more targets Ashuluk do.

That explains why I have been so long I can not in Greece, not one aircraft to shoot down, I very much hope that Greece.

Let him do more targets then!

Not very well, I did this calculation Greece.

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