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#3779642 - 05/09/13 07:42 AM Anti-Radiation missiles  
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Mdore Offline
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Footage of AGM-45 Shrike, AGM-122 Sidearm and AGM-88 HARM anti-radiation missiles during testing. Plus some ejection seat testing at the end.

That's what happens when you keep your radar on too long.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3779921 - 05/09/13 05:40 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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Great thumbsup
That HARM miss looks great in slow motion, when it barely touched the van.

#3795132 - 06/11/13 08:05 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Great thumbsup
That HARM miss looks great in slow motion, when it barely touched the van.


Hm, "Shrike"-s performs better at this video, IMHO...

#3806079 - 07/07/13 11:25 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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piston79 Offline
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First russian "Wild Bear Weasel".. :


#3830918 - 09/03/13 06:55 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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#3831029 - 09/03/13 02:22 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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ColdWar WarPact solution against Hawk&Nike...






Last edited by Hpasp; 09/03/13 02:29 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3831476 - 09/04/13 05:30 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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piston79 Offline
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Some data about older "Shrike" and "Standart" ARM:
(Hope this may be useful in case of future "realistic to the switch" SAM Sim tunning...)

"Shrike" - RCS in sa-2E frequency - 0.05-0.07 sq. m. / Aquisition range 43 km (narrow beam); 32 km (wide beam)
"Standart" - RCS in sa-2E frequency - 0.20-0.40 sq. m. / Aquisition range 64 km (narrow beam); 45 km (wide beam)...

"Shrike" - RCS in P-12 frequency - 0.70-1.00 sq. m.
"Standart" - RCS in P-12 frequency - 3.50-4.50 sq. m.

Aquisition range for "Shrike" with certain posibility for aquisition (0.5;0.84;0.98) for one scanning:


#3866077 - 11/21/13 10:36 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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#3868910 - 11/28/13 07:09 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
ColdWar WarPact solution against Hawk&Nike...

Click to reveal..






Still russian army hasn't dedicated "Wild Weasel" plane...

#3938916 - 04/14/14 08:42 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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Mdore Offline
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Ugh http://www.janes.com/article/32800/uk-retires-alarm-missile

No naval fighters any more, no medium or heavy SAMs any more, half of tanks retired and now no Anti-Radiation missiles.

UK military has lost so many capabilities.

#3939107 - 04/14/14 05:22 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mdore


UK military has lost so many capabilities.


As we all know, ARM-s are just really expensive RPK switches wink no need of worry...

Quote:
It added: "UK armed forces have a range of capabilities that can be used to counter enemy air defence, including kinetic strikes via long-range cruise missiles, such as Tomahawk and Storm Shadow, and a multitude of highly effective precision air-to-ground weapons.

"Additionally, it is likely that we will work with our international partners on future major operations overseas and will therefore manage all of our capabilities as part of that coalition."

#3951235 - 05/09/14 10:31 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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Mdore Offline
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Over the years I've played SAMSim, I've discovered you can shoot down anti-radiation missiles, if you're quick enough.

I was just shooting down AGM-88s and wondered if this was realistic?

Are the fuses in the SAM warheads quick enough? Depending on which SAM you're using, your missile's speed + the speed of the ARM is going to be mach 3 to mach 4.

A slight delay when fired against a 15m-20m long aircraft doesn't matter, and might even be a good thing, causing the missile to detonate near the middle of the aircraft instead of in front of the aircraft's nose.

But an AGM-88 is just 4m long.

Wouldn't the combination of being a weak target for the fuse to detect, plus the extreme combined speed, plus the target is very short, make the warhead detonate behind the missile?

#3951297 - 05/09/14 01:44 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mdore
Over the years I've played SAMSim, I've discovered you can shoot down anti-radiation missiles, if you're quick enough.

I was just shooting down AGM-88s and wondered if this was realistic?

Are the fuses in the SAM warheads quick enough? Depending on which SAM you're using, your missile's speed + the speed of the ARM is going to be mach 3 to mach 4.

A slight delay when fired against a 15m-20m long aircraft doesn't matter, and might even be a good thing, causing the missile to detonate near the middle of the aircraft instead of in front of the aircraft's nose.

But an AGM-88 is just 4m long.

Wouldn't the combination of being a weak target for the fuse to detect, plus the extreme combined speed, plus the target is very short, make the warhead detonate behind the missile?


HARM has double of the length, compared to the RS-2US missile acting as firing range target in Ustka.

What is more interesting...
...with the S-300PS system the recommendation is to engage the HARM, instead switching off the 18 channel emitter.

You have a specific target acquisition button for this function.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3951737 - 05/10/14 08:49 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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Hpasp, damn man... That makes me want the S-300 so bad, even if it is not realistic to the switch.

#3967008 - 06/13/14 01:04 AM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
HARM has double of the length, compared to the RS-2US missile acting as firing range target in Ustka.


Yes, but the HARMs are presenting minimum-ish cross section to seeker and fuze when launched at a SAM. I also suspect the test shots may carry a radar reflector, at least where old systems are involved.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
What is more interesting...
...with the S-300PS system the recommendation is to engage the HARM, instead switching off the 18 channel emitter.


So can PATRIOT, and could do this in GF1. It took hours and hours to verify this information, it came from the investigation of the friendly fire incidents. It also contained information regarding PATRIOT ABM performance.

Later, a PATRIOT got nailed with a HARM because it sang the wrong tune at an F-16.

All in all, I'm not sure that shooting ARMs is a high value proposition, though it's better than sitting there and taking it.

Last edited by GrayGhost; 06/13/14 01:06 AM.

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#3967691 - 06/14/14 12:35 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
HARM has double of the length, compared to the RS-2US missile acting as firing range target in Ustka.


Yes, but the HARMs are presenting minimum-ish cross section to seeker and fuze when launched at a SAM. I also suspect the test shots may carry a radar reflector, at least where old systems are involved.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
What is more interesting...
...with the S-300PS system the recommendation is to engage the HARM, instead switching off the 18 channel emitter.


So can PATRIOT, and could do this in GF1. It took hours and hours to verify this information, it came from the investigation of the friendly fire incidents. It also contained information regarding PATRIOT ABM performance.

Later, a PATRIOT got nailed with a HARM because it sang the wrong tune at an F-16.

All in all, I'm not sure that shooting ARMs is a high value proposition, though it's better than sitting there and taking it.


Correct.
S-300PS and Patriot (surprise-surprise) has capabilities to detect, and based on crew decision engage or take ARM (Anti Radiation Missile) attacks...
... facing AGM-88E AARGM I would certainly opt for engage.
biggrin

At a Patriot post, you as FCO sits at a relatively safety from the antenna (like SA-2/3/5), while the SA-4/6/8/10 crew sits at a life threatening distance from the ARM impact point.

PS: At an advanced arena (like OAF), decoys could play their part also...

Last edited by Hpasp; 06/14/14 12:40 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3967796 - 06/14/14 05:25 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Hpasp]  
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Radar decoys?

But what about TALD ... smile

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
PS: At an advanced arena (like OAF), decoys could play their part also...


--
44th VFW
#3967808 - 06/14/14 06:00 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: GrayGhost]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Radar decoys?

But what about TALD ... smile



This is for what he talk about..., and some others too ...




Last edited by piston79; 06/14/14 06:10 PM.
#3967809 - 06/14/14 06:03 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Radar decoys?

But what about TALD ... smile

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
PS: At an advanced arena (like OAF), decoys could play their part also...


Meaning HARM traps like...





... as far as I know, TALD was only used during ODS.
(not used in EDC, or in OAF)

Last edited by Hpasp; 06/14/14 06:08 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3979275 - 07/10/14 06:59 PM Re: Anti-Radiation missiles [Re: Mdore]  
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piston79 Offline
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Damn, poor ST-68/36D6.... sigh


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