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#3890277 - 01/06/14 07:48 AM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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tirta Offline
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Hi 33lima,

Thanks for the lengthy response.
It is always a treat to read your post. biggrin

About spad13, I think I begin to grasp the concept:
Keep your energy high & do not get into a turning fight.

However, I find it is hard to do it in real dogfight,
- keep gentle turn,
but if it is too gentle I can not point my nose into him
and somehow d7 always get to my tail faster if my turn is too gentle.
- if I turn too tight, the plane shakes and I bleed the energy so fast
then I lose speed, then the same result: I get shot.

On spad13, what is the min speed that I should keep? more than 100km?
or you can go slower as long the aircraft does not shake?

I try out of plane manuver or going vertical, but on the top, my speed goes down a lot and the plane start to shake,
is this normal or my speed is too low?
How fast should I go before doing a loop?

If I use low yo-yo in turning fight, yes at first I gain speed, but the longer I turn, more speed is lost
and I also lost the height in the end.
What did I do wrong?


PS please check your pm






Last edited by tirta; 01/06/14 11:01 AM.
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#3890645 - 01/06/14 09:33 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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33lima Offline
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Hi Tirta

I don't fly the SPADs often so cannot claim to be an expert there!

Unless and until you can fly a SPAD like Guynemer against CS Lewis, I would try to avoid turning after a DVII when flying a SPAD, maybe just follow him through a half-turn at most, 90-180 degrees, to see how good he is and to see if you can 'spook' him by shooting, into doing something silly like reversing his turn in front of you. If he does reverse turn, catch him as his wings come level, a nice target, and you find sometimes that if he's been hit he will sort of fly with what looks like uncertainty for a second or two, making a good target, before he breaks into another hard turn or similar move. If after turning after a DVII for say 90 degrees you are not getting a shot at him, don't tighten the turn till you get the buffeting, before you get to that point break away while you still have your speed advantage. If you turn with him too long you'll have lost that speed advantage and you'll be fighting him on his terms.

Otherwise stay fast, set up a pass, shoot if you can and then extend away while he slows down by turning, gain a bit of height, then in again for another pass. Eventually you should get him, without giving him a crack at you.

Easy to say, not so easy to do, and I'm no Guynemer!

I generally fly combat at full throttle, and pay no attention to my speed, unless:

- I am above an enemy, and want to throttle back for a short time before rolling into a tight diving turn to get into a position behind for a diving attack, power back on to make the attack; or

- my plane starts buffetting - I will keep the throttle full open but ease the joystick forward enough to stop the buffeting, as it is increasing drag'reducing my speed, as well as heading for a stall.

I most often do 'out of plane manoeuvres like the yo-yo only in a downward direction, exactly because of what you say - WW1 planes do not seem to have enough power to do a high yo-yo very well. If you do a high yo-yo, you need to make it quick or maybe do it as a stall turn - nose vertical then kick in rudder as you stop and are about to fall backwards. Likely to make you a good target while you hang on your prop! I haven't tried this, after all MvR was scornful about performing aerobatics in combat! I stick to low yo-yos, using the energy gained going down, to get back up again. More than a once or twice is the same for me, I end up 'low and slow' and if I have not succeeded before then in shooting down my enemy I am in trouble and will try to 'extend' to gain a bit of separation from my enemy so i can have the time and space to try something different.

PM replied to!

#3891618 - 01/08/14 10:03 AM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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tirta Offline
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Hi 33lima,

Thanks for all the tips.
After doing some more flying, I am able to save my energy and climb most of the time.
Then I go down try to attack the target but don't turn with him but go up again.

I believe the manuever is called "boom and zoom":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhYaRX8plzU

And that guy have a lot of good tutorial videos,
you should look it up, I find it very helpful.

However I still find it hard to hit the enemy when booming since I am very fast and only have less than a second to hit.
I guess I have to practise a lot.

Watching that guy, it seems very easy to do,
is it because ROF planes easier to fly compared to First Eagles?
and the AI is not good enough?

In FE, the D7 always manage to hit me even when I am already in higher altitude.
May be I am not high enough?

Maybe I should try again to install ROF in the future, after I get better system.
ROF seems demand too much from my current system

And speaking of youtube, I also find these ww1 documentary videos:

Cavalry Of The Clouds. WW1 Pilots Documentary 1987
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO8oWYLhT6o

4 Years of Thunder (1of4): Flying To War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_l6Gv9Neu4

The First World War From Above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-2j9lU2hoE

WW1 Documentary in Color 3- Blood in the Air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNh5NNup2uQ

The First Dogfighters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfgL82jlA-4

Do you know others?

#3892666 - 01/09/14 08:23 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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33lima Offline
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Hi Tirta

if you have been flying 'quick combat', try the SPAD XIII in a campaign instead - you may meet enemies of more variable quality and they will not all be flying Germany's best fighter!

One thing to try is to time your dives carefully, staying above them until they are flying away from you so you can dive from behind and pull up before they can turn enough to get their guns onto you. Better wait or even abort a firing pass rather than rush it.

I don't know if they do it in RoF but in real life, the Fokker DVII was famous for its ability to 'hang on its prop' and fire up at a higher target. There is no getting around it, in skilled hands they are very dangerous.

I think it's fair to say that is IS a bit easier in RoF. The AI is not as good and they tend to go low more often, making it easier to play the game of staying up and controlling the fight.

But FE2 is the best of the three recent WW1 sims I have played - best at air-to-air combat and best at patrol-leading in the single-player campaign.

#3892972 - 01/10/14 10:21 AM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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tirta Offline
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Yes, I have been playing the single mission most of the time to tune up my skill.
But I think now it is the time to try the campaign.
Which stock campaign do you like best?

#3893255 - 01/10/14 07:37 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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33lima Offline
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I like Cambrai best - I prefer 1917 and I am happy flying the Albatros DV against Camels, SE5as and RE8s. In 1918, it is very dangerous, especially against Salmsons with twin Lewis Guns in the rear!

If I was going to fly one of the 1918 campaigns, I would fly Meuse-Argonne with the USAS but replace one of the SPAD XIII squadrons with the CombatAce Nieuport 28 by EmID, with Quack74's great skins.

In real life the Nieu.28 was replaced just before September when the campaign starts but I like the Nieuport even though the little windscreen frame gets in the way a bit...and it adds a bit of variety to the USAS line-up.

In other words, having downloaded and installed the Nieu. 28 from here:

http://combatace.com/files/file/3962-nieuport-28-c1-v102-with-cockpit/

..and the skins from here:

http://combatace.com/files/file/14122-nieuport28s-of-the-usas-1rst-pursuit-group/

...edit the file in your FE2 mods folder WWICAMP.INI as follows:

[USASUnit011]
Squadron=147AS
ForceID=1
UnitID=11
StartDate=9/26/1918
AircraftType=SPAD13 [change to - AircraftType=N28]
DescFile=wwiCamp2Start.txt
StartText=wwiCamp2Start.txt
StartScreen=wwiAlliedAttackStart.JPG
CampaignBaseScreen=wwiBaseSPAD13.JPG

...and in WWICAMP2_DATA.INI change as follows:

[AirUnit011]
AircraftType=SPAD13 [change to - AircraftType=N28]
Squadron=147AS
ForceID=1
Nation=USAS
DefaultTexture=USASCamo2
StartNumber=53
BaseArea=rize-la-Petite Aerodrome
RandomChance=100
BaseMoveChance=0
MaxAircraft=16
StartAircraft=16
MaxPilots=16
StartPilots=16
Experience=30
Morale=100
Supply=50
Intelligence=40
MissionChance[SWEEP]=90
MissionChance[CAP]=90
MissionChance[INTERCEPT]=50
MissionChance[ESCORT]=50
MissionChance[STRIKE]=0
MissionChance[CAS]=10
MissionChance[SEAD]=0
MissionChance[ARMED_RECON]=20
MissionChance[ANTI_SHIP]=0
MissionChance[RECON]=0
MissionChance[BALLOON_BUSTING]=20
MissionChance[BALLOON_DEFENSE]=10
UpgradeType=FIXED
Upgrade[01].Date=10/05/1918
Upgrade[01].Type=SPAD13_235
KnownAce[01].LastName=Meissner
KnownAce[01].FirstName=James
KnownAce[01].RankID=4
KnownAce[01].NumMissions=18
KnownAce[01].AirKills=5
KnownAce[01].AircraftNumber=1

...or any of the other squadrons from the US 1st Pursuit Group which used the Nieu. 28 until the SPAD XIII's arrived (27th Aero Sqdn 'American Eagle', 94th Aero Sqdn 'Hat in the Ring', or 5th Aero Sqdn 'Kickin' Mules')


#3893950 - 01/12/14 01:15 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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tirta Offline
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Thanks 33lima for the reply.

I have tried the campaign, and they give me a mission to bomb an airfield.
How do you accomplish the objective?
Even after I hit the airfield with 2 bombs, the mission result is always a failure.
Why is that?

And I want to ask you about Ojcar Aces campaign.
He write in the readme to add any ground objects
from http://cplengineeringllc.com.
What ground objects does he mean?
Can I substitute them with ground objects from
conbatace?
Please advise.

#3895760 - 01/15/14 08:42 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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33lima Offline
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Hi Tirta

I expect this refers to the WW1 models at the A Team skunkworks, listed under 'weapons and vehicles' - some tanks and some ground AA machine guns.

The tanks are probably not needed. FE2 has tanks already - a British one and one of those captured and in German markings (the Germs did this as often as they could, as the British tanks were a lot better than the German A7V tank). It may have a French tank too, a Schneider of a St Chamond, I'm not sure.

For the ground MGs, the only thing I think that could be substituted from CombatAce is this set of heavier automatic weapons, which may be more dangerous:

http://combatace.com/files/file/6165-37mm-aaa-guns-for-fe-exp1/

It is designed for First Eagles Gold (=original first Eagles plus the Expansion Pack, which FE2 includes) and it may or may not work in FE2.

CA also has an airfield MG gunners mod, but I do not know if the AA MGs in that can be substituted for the A Team ones.

Unfortunately I don't know how to substitute these things. All I can suggest is to open the files in one of Ojcar's campaigns and look for them, then replace their entries with one you have installed.

#3895805 - 01/15/14 10:35 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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33lima Offline
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PS about the 'Mission failed!' result, ignore it. That is also the advice of game developer TK himself.

As far as I know, the results you achieve in campaign missions have some effect on how the campaign goes/ For example, on a recent (campaign) mission rated as successful, I was also told that the local enemy offensive had been repulsed. You may notice that the front line moves on the map. I think this is tied into your chosen difficulty setting - the lower it is, the more effect your flight's action have on the conduct of the war. At harder settings, you have less effect. But it's not important - it may be in other TW sims but not in FE2, I am fairly sure.

#3896145 - 01/16/14 02:22 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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tirta Offline
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My FE is the first one with expansion, not FE2.


BTW I have tried installng ROF again, and with the latest version, it seems the stutter is less frequent, it is almost gone.
And yes flying spad13 is easier here, the plane seems to have more power, it climbs easier compared to FE.
So which one is the more realistic spad13 FM?

#3899299 - 01/21/14 09:43 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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33lima Offline
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Haven't flown the RoF SPAD XIII (or the real one!) so can't say but I think the FE2 FMs are fine at 'Hard' setting and better still with Peter01's FM pack. Spin recovery in many RoF planes seems very hard but I'm not sure that is realistic!

#3899587 - 01/22/14 09:05 AM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: 33lima]  
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tirta Offline
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I have not used Peter01's FM pack.
Is it used only for add on aircrafts?

Does it affect stock aircrafts?

Is there difference between FE2 FM and FE1 FM?
My FE is FE1.

#3907191 - 02/04/14 09:17 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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33lima Offline
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Hi Tirta

I believe that Peter01's FM pack provided new FMs for most or all of the FE aircraft available at the time, both stock planes and user-made ones. So yes it does affect stock planes, too.

I think it is essential to use, if you have FMs set to 'Hard', because some user made planes have FMs which don't work right unbless you use 'Normal' setting for example will not take off.

I *think* Peter01's FMs are the same for both FE1 and FE2, but I'm not sure; I guess that the separate installs just use the different installation paths for FE1 and FE2, with the same data, but I have never checked!

#3919374 - 03/03/14 08:51 AM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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tirta Offline
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Hi 33lima,

Thanks for the explanation.
How about wing leveller in ww1 aircrafts?

Do they have it on the real aircraft?

#3921072 - 03/06/14 02:47 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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33lima Offline
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Hi Tirta

a few WW1 planes like the SE5 and RE8 had devices to enable the pilot to trim the tailplane in a roughly similar way that elevator trim works in modern aircraft. FE2 may have inherited control surface trim commands from Strike Fighters but I never use them, if they exist. FE planes do not need too strong control pressure to maintain level flight, the worst is usually a tendency to roll opposite to propeller rotation/torque but I just apply enough opposite aileron to stop this or throttle back a bit.

In real life I believe that a WW1 pilot's rigger (the groundcrew member who looked after the airframe; a 'fitter' looked after the engine) could adjust the tension of the aircraft's rigging to help it maintain level flight for a given airspeed and loading. But there will have been limits on what was possible. For example, in 'Into the Blue', 45 Squadron's Norman McMillan, when they were changing from 1 1/2 Strutters to Camels, says of the latter 'She was tail heavy, so that one had to press the stick forward in normal flight because there was no tailplane adjustment'.

In RoF nearly all planes seem to be exceptionally tail heavy, so I have started using the sim's control profile facility to set the planes I fly to fly level at full throttle with the joystick neutral. I am not sure of the extent to which this was possible in real life for planes with no tailplane adjustment but it certainly makes flying in RoF less tiring, as well as reducing my tendency to wander all over the sky! Even manage to shoot things down now and again, like this guy:



Mission report here:

http://combatace.com/topic/81517-the-pfalz-dxii-in-rise-of-flight/

Last edited by 33lima; 03/07/14 10:10 PM.
#3922514 - 03/10/14 07:33 AM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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tirta Offline
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Thanks 33lima for the explanation.

Now I am trying to install ojcar aces' campaign (1915, 1916, 1917, 1918).
I want to change "BE-2C" to "RAFBE2C" (stephen1918) like you write in previous post.
But there is a lot of campaign ini files to be changed.

I think it is easier to change the the name of "RAFBE2C" in the objects/aircraft/ folder to "BE-2C",
so there is no need to change the campaign ini files.

Will it give me the same result?

#3929413 - 03/24/14 07:26 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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33lima Offline
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I considered doing that but thought it might break something in the plane's folder, which used the original name, so I just did a 'find and replace' in the many campaign files. Try it but maybe but be prepared to re-install!

#3936403 - 04/08/14 06:14 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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I think Uncleal is just pulling your chain at this point.


FTX Global
#3971717 - 06/23/14 01:57 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: Captain_Napalm]  
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apelles Offline
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Hungary, Szkesfehrvr
If i only want buy one of them, wich one is the winner? Which one resemble more the Red Baron feel of war?

#3979352 - 07/10/14 09:34 PM Re: Best Current WWI Sim? [Re: apelles]  
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33lima Offline
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To the question, which is most like Red Baron 3d, I think the majority would answer 'Wings Over Flanders Fields'.

FE2 (modded) and RoF (+PWCG) both have good SP campaigns too, with advantages of their own.

As for your other question, which is the winner, it depends on what importance you attach to different factors - for example, how much FE's massive plane set and extra theatres of war (now including Palestine, as well as the Western Front, the Eastern Front, Italy and the North Sea) appeal to you. Modded, FE2 is hot stuff. WOFF is I think easily the best 'out of the box' - it has an awful lot going for it - a great package and an instant classic sim: http://combatace.com/topic/82050-wings-over-flanders-fields-the-combatace-review/

Until WOFF appeared, my answer would have been, without hesitation, 'My winner is FE/FE2, modded'. With WOFF's arrival, it's now a matter of personal preference (assuming relative cost and required system specs are not major issues). I prefer both of them! And as RoF is free, I've got that too (and a good many planes). No need to choose just one.

Good luck and watch your six!






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