#3917466 - 02/27/14 11:04 AM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: JimAttrill]
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Olham
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Some anachronisms are forgiveable - like the Fokker Triplanes in 'The Blue Max' - at least one had a real rotary engine, but the other aircraft had radials.
Well, working rotaries might have been rare by then - that's excuseable. But if I remember it correct, then there are much worse mistakes. Like guns, which don't have any feeding belts - but they still fire!
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#3917527 - 02/27/14 02:13 PM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: Olham]
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JimAttrill
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Some anachronisms are forgiveable - like the Fokker Triplanes in 'The Blue Max' - at least one had a real rotary engine, but the other aircraft had radials.
Well, working rotaries might have been rare by then - that's excuseable. But if I remember it correct, then there are much worse mistakes. Like guns, which don't have any feeding belts - but they still fire! Ah, but I was a 'sumpy' or 'oiler' in the RAF - not a 'plumber'
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#3919238 - 03/02/14 10:38 PM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: Hellshade]
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vonBaur
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The film was probably made by the same people who made John Wayne Westerns, Olham. John could fire one bullet and kill three Indians with it! ahhh Hollywood. The Duke's pistols just never needed reloading, Hellshade. You're thinking about Joey Bishop as Dean Martin's Indian sidekick in "Texas Across the River". I've only seen the movie once, but the scene was hillarious. Typical wagon train attack. Wagons in a circle barricade, everyone firing. Martin walks to Bishop's position and Bishop fires...three Comanche fall. Bishop fires again...three Comanche fall (the same three, btw). Later the movie cuts back to Bishop who fires again and the same three Comanche fall. He pulls the trigger and the gun is empty, so he throws it.... Do I have to say what happens next? **edit** I should say "The Duke's pistols never needed reloading except as a plot device." sorry
Last edited by vonBaur; 03/02/14 10:39 PM.
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#3923563 - 03/12/14 06:47 AM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: Lieste]
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JimAttrill
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The earliest use of "FlaK" must be at least prior to 1923, as there was a 2cm FlaK 28 introduced (and immediately outlawed by the Versailles Agreement, the weapons being sold to Switzerland).
The WW1 "flaming onion" gun was also referred correctly as the Masch-FlaK (presumably machine anti aircraft gun, which might permit a hand loaded weapon to be referred to as merely "FlaK") I have no doubt what you say is correct. The original point is that the RFC pilots always talked and wrote about 'Archie' and never used the word 'Flak' which the RAF did use after about 1938 and through that war. In a similar vein, the USAF in Vietnam started to use 'AAA' instead of 'AA', possibly because they were up against SAM2's as well as guns. This is a good example of how the US beaurocracy will never use 2 words when 3 will do.
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#3925915 - 03/17/14 01:30 PM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: JimAttrill]
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Al Lowe
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In a similar vein, the USAF in Vietnam started to use 'AAA' instead of 'AA', possibly because they were up against SAM2's as well as guns. This is a good example of how the US beaurocracy will never use 2 words when 3 will do.
Yeah, calling it "Anti-Aircraft" wasn't enough for our government. They had to refer to it as "Anti-Aircraft Artillery." Why? I don't know, because. Triple Play!!! (Abbot and Costello reference. )
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#3926065 - 03/17/14 06:41 PM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: Al Lowe]
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Robert_Wiggins
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In a similar vein, the USAF in Vietnam started to use 'AAA' instead of 'AA', possibly because they were up against SAM2's as well as guns. This is a good example of how the US beaurocracy will never use 2 words when 3 will do.
Yeah, calling it "Anti-Aircraft" wasn't enough for our government. They had to refer to it as "Anti-Aircraft Artillery." Why? I don't know, because. Triple Play!!! (Abbot and Costello reference. ) I know..."He's on first!"
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#3926351 - 03/18/14 09:39 AM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: JimAttrill]
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JimAttrill
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Yes, the British radio phonetic alphabet at that time had 'Ack' for A. In WWII it became 'A for Apple' before being taken over by the NATO standard 'Alpha'.
In WWI the fitters and riggers were called 'Air Mechanics' which was shortened to 'Ack Emma'. This is possibly where the RAF slang term 'erk' came from for an airman (not an NCO or an Officer). But don't quote me as nobody seems to know where the term came from. I think the word went out of use sometime in the 50s anyway.
And the USAF don't say 'Alpha Alpha Alpha' for AAA. They say 'triple A' which sounds much better I suppose.
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#3926619 - 03/18/14 07:54 PM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: JimAttrill]
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vonBaur
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Of course, that makes it sound like you can pull over to the nearest cloud and wait for a tow truck if you have engine trouble. But I guess that's better than "AA", which makes it sound like they're all a bunch of drunks.
pilots, a bunch of drunks??? on second thought....
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#3927371 - 03/20/14 10:56 AM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: JimAttrill]
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JimAttrill
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If you can believe 'Goshawk Squadron' it seems a lot of them were drunk. One mistake the author makes is stressing the effects of Castor oil on their digestions which was not a problem with in-line engines with long exhaust pipes as used in the SE5a. It was a problem with all the rotary engines of the time.
He also stresses that their aircraft were obsolete in early 1918 which was not true at all.
But the book is still fun to read, although I prefer 'War Story' which is much more accurate and less sensational.
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#3946010 - 04/28/14 08:14 PM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: JimAttrill]
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Thomas
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I was too lazy to go through all six pages, so someone may have posted this already... The word "Archie" stems from a then-favorite dancehall hit titled "Archibald, certainly not!" The word "Flugabwehrkanone" and thus "FLAK" was officially adopted in 1916 by the German Air Service to replace the older "BAK" which had been in use until then. I don't know about the origin of "AAA", but I would assume it stands for "Anti-Aircraft Artillery".
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#3946380 - 04/29/14 12:47 PM
Re: The word 'flak' was not used in WWI
[Re: JimAttrill]
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JimAttrill
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Right on all three points thomas. I should have named this thread "the word 'flak' was not used by the British in WWI", but at the time I didn't know that the Germans used it at that time. You live and learn...
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