The main advancement of the S-200V VEGA. V-860PV (5V21V) MISSILE against the earlier version was that it doesn't required CW signal continuously.
If CW signal dropped for a short time, it continued flying and looked for the RPC signal to be switched back again...
... and the KUB has more nastier trick also.

Can you say what "nastier trick" the KUB has? Or is it Hungarian military secret still?

Yes, you have to carefully watch KRO signals and don't missile let fly without CW signal for too long (more than 30 or 60s?) But for how long you have to switch RPC back on again? Is this practice mentioned somewhere in the official manual?

What is the trick of KUB?

From Shilka's thread:


BMS's modeling of SA-5 is not the most accurate, just like all Falcon 4.0 mods I know of. The search radar and the fire control radar was abstracted into a single P-35 set, and apparently the missile was command guided with terminal semi-active radar homing...That meant launch warning.

That's still better than the CLoS+TARH in most Harpoon 3 distributions, however. FAS was apparently -rather- reliable, western professional source and all.

K-9 cabinet, from right to left - 1.Operator for distribution of targets in RPC beam; 2. Operator of target distribution (between zrdn-s?); 3. Commander of the zrdn's group:





Left: Commander of the group:
On the glass of P-14's VIKO could be drawn some additional info, which helps the commander during engagement (here, per example, the border and the zone of responsibility is shown; 1 and 2 - strobs of RPC-1 channel and RPC-2 channel.

Down-left a rotating scale was used for quick determination of killing possibility - here the killing zone against cruise-missiles(KR), fighter-bombers(IB) and strategic bombers(SB) on high and medium (dotted line) altitudes.

Upper-right: 2. Operator of target distribution (between zrdn-s?) - After every channel starts tracking the target in AS, P (parameter) and T (time in killing zone) are calculate by the CVM (central computing machine). The data (Parameter and/or Time) is used by the Commander to make a decision for which target been attacked first.

a) screens before calculation
b) screens after calculation



Operator for distribution of targets in RPC beam:
After CU in "Leader1-Follower2", RPC of both channels (zrdn-s) is following one and the same target (upper part of the picture). After target distribution every channel (RPC) is tracking his own target.(note the left orange screen (target distinction indicator).



K-2B cabinet:

Left column indicators:

1. Target is in process of acquisition, MHI, Velocity tracking is on
2. AS-3, MHI, Velocity tracking is on
3. Target is in process of acquisition, MHI, Velocity tracking is off
4. AS-3, MHI, Velocity tracking is off
5. FKM, AS-4
6. Active, narrow beam noise jamming low intensity (self defense jamming)
7. Active, wide beam noise jamming, medium intensity

Right column indicators:

1. Group of targets, MHI, Velocity tracking is on, AS-3
2. Group of targets, MHI, Velocity tracking is off, AS-3
3. Tracking one of the tarhets, FKM, AS-4
5. Changing the tracking from target 1 to target 2in progress, RU (manual tracking) mode
6. Tracking target 2 in RU mode.
7. In case of Velocity Deception Jamming (Velocity Gate Pull Off) the tracking system might "take the bait" and start tracking the jamming signal. Activated modes - RU, Wide Velocity tracking mode, Auto-retracking on Velocity (KR-266V down left)
8. When certain level of velocity tracking deviation is achieved, the automating tracking strobe(cursor) is switching back to manual tracking (RU) strobe (cursor).




Next two should be familiar to the all dedicated SA-5 fans... :






Source: Source

GREAT!!!! THANKS!!!!

Sorry, but my English is not good enough, but hope it was clear enough to understand...

I have some remnants of my russian, so with help of a translator for some words I think I would be able to read it.

Damn! My english appears to be really bad...

No, your english is very good

My idea is to read the complete text, now when I know basic ideas from your description I will be able to understand it better And also I have found the russian forum where you also found it so I want to read something from there also.
By the way on that forum there is user named halmiso, he is a Slovak SAM veteran and he is also active in czech PVO forum.

I learned russian when I was 11 years old (damn, that's 24 years ago ) for only one year (then the political situation changed and the mandatory russian language was removed from schools unfortunately - I wanted to learn both russian and english). But I still remember your "alphabet" (azbuka in czech and probably also in russian) and I remember some words and so I can read but understanding is worse. It is essential in playing with SAM simulator

guys

I was in a discussion with someone about the Pk ratio of V-880E against Blackbird. Do u know from which manual I could find the G limit of the missile at its terminal? BTW,I know where to find the engagement zone of the system, but the terminal speed and its load factor available cannot be find from this. May u guys have some ideas.

For the V-880VE missile:

n=6g (H=0m)
n=10g (H=20km)
n=2.5g (H=35km)

It is quite high for a missile of his generation...
... but it had several tricks to achieve it.
(mainly it consumed all fuel on board before terminal phase, or could expel it)

Blackbird is a dead meat!

Let us see this discussion - it will be interesting reading...

Thanks, Hpasp

I know nothing about Russian. This causes me a lot of problems when reading the original manual. The only thing I can understand is the diagrams and graphs

I found it in a Hungarian manual.
(explanatory notes for the Firing Manual)

In this link I have found some interesting information regarding combat usage of S-200. Does anyone know some details?


The first combat use of the S-200 was made in 1982 by Syria. At a distance of 190 Km was an American E-2C "HAWKEYE" shot down.

Shoot down a British Tornado in the Iraq war (Syria or Iran?)

In the mean time I have found only THIS.

While there are no Western reports about either US or any other aircraft ever being fired at by Syrian SA-5s, according to Russian and the Ukrainian media reports, the Syrians claimed up to 12 USN aircraft as shot down on 4 December 1983 - all by SA-5s - and including two F-14s, several A-6Es as well as a single Israeli or USN E-2C. Although almost ridiculous - then there is not the slightest trace of evidence for such claims (the USN Corsairs and Intruders lost on 4 December 1984 were all lost to MANPADs and ZSU-23-4s; while the Israelis never lost any of their E-2Cs), such claims are still frequently repeated even in most recent issues of different specialized Russian and the Ukrainian magazines.

In fact it appears that the only "kill" of SA-5 would be Tu-154M of "Siberia Airlines"....

No Israel E-2 was lost (they have four board numbers: IAF - 941 (US - 160771), 942 (160772), 944 (160773) & 946 (160774). ... http://www.iai.co.il/35439-en/SearchResu...rchText=hawkeye

Data about shot down of a UAV (06.12.1983 - MQM-74 "Telem"), but no confirmation that the SA-5 fired, also no data about launches of UAV at that day:

Here: http://skywar.ru/lebsyr.html