Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 14 1 2 3 13 14
#3900842 - 01/24/14 02:09 PM S-300, S-350, S-400 *****  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
I open this topic for my all time favourite SAM system.
The S-300PS Volhov-M6 (export version S-300PMU) [SA-10B Grumble] is the ultimate Soviet SAM system of the '80s.


After synthesizing all the lessons learned during the conflicts of the '60~'70s, Soviet union developed the first 'double digit' SAM, answering all the challenges depicted in the SAM SIMULATOR situations...

- completely mobile system, capable of shooting 5 minutes after stop
- can engage 6 targets parallelly, with 12 missiles (doing Mach6!!!)
- 48 ready to launch missiles, no missile reload time
- 75km range (with V-500R 5V55R)
- hard (almost impossible) to jam V-500R 5V55R (Grumble Mod.1) missiles
- hard to find RPN (fire control radar), only the targeted plane can detect the digitally controlled, narrow pencil-beam
- automatical HARM detection, and acquisition
- detecting ultra low flying targets
- easy to use digital interface



Last edited by Hpasp; 01/10/17 06:19 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3900847 - 01/24/14 02:13 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe

The S-300P (P as PVO Homeland Air Defense) is the first multichannel SAM system developed by Almaz TsKB under the leadership of B. V. Bunkin.

It was the first Soviet SAM system that used phased array fire control radar, and missile seeker aided ground guidance, capable of firing only 5 minutes after stopping.

The first towed version S-300PT Biryusa (SA-10A Grumble) was fielded in 1979, replacing the S-25 Berkut (SA-1 Guild) batteries around Moscow.



The first mobile version S-300PS Volhov-M6 (SA-10B Grumble) was fielded in 1983 replacing the S-75M Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) and S-125M Neva (SA-3B Goa) batteries, and exported outside of the former Soviet Union from 1988 as the S-300PMU (SA-10B Grumble) into Bulgaria, China, and Czechoslovakia.





Second generation of the S-300P is fielded from 1989, as the S-300PM Volhov-M6M (SA-20A Gargoyle), and exported in two versions. The S-300PMU-1 Volhov-M6M (SA-20A Gargoyle) is shipped from 1994, into China, Greece, and Vietnam. The S-300PMU-2 Favorit (SA-20B Gargoyle) is shipped from 2004 into China.




Third generation of the S-300P is fielded in Russia from 2007 replacing the S-200 (SA-5 Gammon) batteries, as the S-400 Triumph (SA-21 Growler).

Hungary planned to field two S-300PMU batteries during the 1990s, but the Cold War ended.


Last edited by Hpasp; 01/24/14 10:13 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3900877 - 01/24/14 02:43 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe


At the left sits the Firing Officer, before a matrix of 6 targets (horizontal) and 4 group of launchers (4x4 vertical) indicators.
He pairs the missile to the target, then launch it.

At the center, sits the Target Acquisition Officer.
He acquires the target on the lower (smaller) rectangular screen, then assigns it to one of the 6 target channels (above larger screen).

Right of the picture sits the Range Officer.
He can acquire, and manually track one target in range.

There are two workstations right of him, with two Angle Officers.
They can acquire, and manually track one target in angle.

Last edited by Hpasp; 01/24/14 02:48 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3900906 - 01/24/14 03:10 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Best book so far...

Der Fla-Raketenkomplex S-300PMU in der NVA



Also...

http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/S_trista_01.pdf
http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/S_trista_02.pdf

Last edited by Hpasp; 01/24/14 05:01 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3900908 - 01/24/14 03:10 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 614
Czech Republic
Do you have also pictures of panels of those angle officers?

#3900915 - 01/24/14 03:17 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
here



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3900919 - 01/24/14 03:22 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 174
apelles Offline
Member
apelles  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 174
Hungary, Szkesfehrvr
The Sa-10b system have capabilitys against tactical ballistic missiles like Frog-7 or scud?

#3900928 - 01/24/14 03:32 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: apelles]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: apelles
The Sa-10b system have capabilitys against tactical ballistic missiles like Frog-7 or scud?


The S-300PS/PMU Volhov-M6 (SA-10B) can hit the SCUD in theory, as good as the Patriot was able during the first Gulf War...
(any target with the speed of 1200m/s)

... but the S-300PM/PMU1 Volhov-M6M (SA-20A) is designed from scratch to be able to kill it.
(any target with the speed of 2800m/s)

ATBM Capability
Testing of new capabilities for the S-300P and S-300PM continued even after the S-300PM entered service. The most significant testing occurred in the aftermath of Operation DESERT STORM.
Almaz and Fakel engineers had examined the performance of the American PATRIOT missile system during SCUD missile intercepts and found that the PATRIOT was not nearly as effective as was needed to defend a large populated area. Accuracy was not the issue; PATRIOT missiles consistently found their targets. The problem was one of target destruction.
When the PATRIOT missile warheads detonated, they often simply knocked the SCUD off its flight path without destroying the inbound warhead. When defending an isolated facility, this would be sufficient. However, intercepts attempted by Israeli PATRIOT batteries were of particular interest to the Russian engineers. Often times the inbound warheads still landed in populated areas. To be truly effective in an ATBM capacity, a SAM system would have to destroy the warhead in-flight.
Testing of various S-300P variants at both Sary Shagan and Kapustin Yar proved that the system did have the ability to intercept tactical ballistic missiles at various ranges, depending on the missile system employed and the speed of the incoming target. Fakel MKB engineers, however, developed an even more effective solution in the aftermath of DESERT STORM: a special warhead designed to cause the inbound warhead to detonate in-flight.
The first test firing of the modified warhead occurred in August of 1995 at Kapustin Yar. The missile's warhead successfully caused the warhead of the 8K14 target to detonate in the atmosphere. The missile employed a directional warhead, which is roughly analogous to a shaped charge system insofar as it is able to direct the bulk of the explosive force of the warhead towards the target.

Last edited by Hpasp; 01/25/14 06:35 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3900933 - 01/24/14 03:37 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 174
apelles Offline
Member
apelles  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 174
Hungary, Szkesfehrvr
And against it the NATO could use the medium altitude attacks like in Serbia or would have to return to their low attack tactics? (Tornado, F-111)

#3900966 - 01/24/14 04:21 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: apelles]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: apelles
And against it the NATO could use the medium altitude attacks like in Serbia or would have to return to their low attack tactics? (Tornado, F-111)


Serbia planned to field 3 battery S-300PMU1 Volhov-M6M (SA-20A) in 1999, but the shipment was blocked on the Hungarian border.



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3901039 - 01/24/14 06:12 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,844
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,844
Does SA-10 target tracking radar is a CW radar? How it works with 0 degrees radial speed targets?

#3901384 - 01/25/14 06:53 AM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 245
Mdore Offline
Member
Mdore  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 245
I'd like to know this too. I thought the SA-10 would be a monopulse radar, but I don't understand how you can manually track a target using a monopulse radar.

I'm confused.

#3901414 - 01/25/14 09:46 AM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
ePap Offline
Member
ePap  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
Athens
Originally Posted By: Mdore
I'd like to know this too. I thought the SA-10 would be a monopulse radar, but I don't understand how you can manually track a target using a monopulse radar.

I'm confused.


You can manually follow target returns with tracking gates velocity or range (CW or Monopulse) while follow manually in azimuth watching PPI screen or
with the use of a camera (day/night).

#3901415 - 01/25/14 09:51 AM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
ePap Offline
Member
ePap  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
Athens
Originally Posted By: piston79
Does SA-10 target tracking radar is a CW radar? How it works with 0 degrees radial speed targets?


But the missile on air is NOT in zero Doppler position !!! It gets reruns from target illumination.
The main issue is to some how illuminate the target...

#3901559 - 01/25/14 06:19 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3901575 - 01/25/14 07:02 PM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
Does SA-10 target tracking radar is a CW radar? How it works with 0 degrees radial speed targets?


According to the monograph linked above (page 13), the RPN can track targets with radial speed between 50~1200m/s.

So anything flying under 180km/h, cannot be tracked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust
banghead


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3901712 - 01/26/14 12:38 AM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 432
jazjar Offline
Member
jazjar  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 432
So technically, only the firing and target acquisition officers are needed for normal operation? How does the firing officer "pair" targets? is it just pressing and holding down on the channel button, and then pressing the fire button to fire, or is it something else?

#3901840 - 01/26/14 08:41 AM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 174
apelles Offline
Member
apelles  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 174
Hungary, Szkesfehrvr
This also meant if the target beaming the SA-10B lose tracking, and missiles go ballistic???

#3901857 - 01/26/14 11:08 AM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: apelles]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: apelles
This also meant if the target beaming the SA-10B lose tracking, and missiles go ballistic???


There is no official material available, and open source ones are contradicting...
... so handle it with grain of salt.


Last edited by Hpasp; 01/26/14 11:10 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3901860 - 01/26/14 11:25 AM Re: S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B Grumble) [Re: jazjar]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: jazjar
So technically, only the firing and target acquisition officers are needed for normal operation? How does the firing officer "pair" targets? is it just pressing and holding down on the channel button, and then pressing the fire button to fire, or is it something else?




3 launcher groups are available, with 3 launchers each (total 36 missiles).
At the 2nd top row, you can see 12 selectable missiles.


The Firing Officer assigns 2 missiles from the 12, against the 6th target.
Now you have only 10 selectable at the 2nd top row, and 2 assigned against target 6.


Missile launched.


Last edited by Hpasp; 01/26/14 11:26 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
Page 1 of 14 1 2 3 13 14

Moderated by  Cat, Hpasp, RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
F1 2018 FREE
by Red2112. 08/07/20 09:43 PM
When you think you are unlucky.....remember this
by Blade_RJ. 08/06/20 05:41 PM
August 6th, 1945, 75 years later.
by NoFlyBoy. 08/04/20 07:49 PM
Massive Blast in Beirut
by KRT_Bong. 08/04/20 05:22 PM
So who was the better singer?
by PanzerMeyer. 08/04/20 02:41 PM
Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire (DARE)
by KraziKanuK. 07/31/20 09:51 PM
A Day at the Beach: Normandy 1944
by KraziKanuK. 07/31/20 09:46 PM
Any legal guys here?
by NoFlyBoy. 07/31/20 09:10 PM
Nuclear Disaster Everyone Promptly Forgot
by Blade_RJ. 07/30/20 04:12 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0