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#4569574 - 05/22/21 11:49 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF ***** [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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Originally Posted by trustworthykebab
Originally Posted by AlbrechtKaseltzer
Originally Posted by vonBaur
The Hanriot shouldn't be that hard to make, either. You probably wouldn't have to make it from scratch. As I recall, it was very similar to the early Nieuports in appearance. I would imagine similar performance, too. A few tweaks to the closest one should do it.

I've read that the Hanriot HD.1 drew heavily from early Sopwith designs like the Strutter - which Hanriot had previously built on license - though the Nieuport aesthetic is unmistakable on the Hanriot.

At ~115 mph, the Hanriot's somewhat faster than any Nieuport fighter save for the infamous Nieuport 28. That's what I get out of Windsock, but lemme know if there's other info out there.

So basically a Sopwith Strutter/Pup dressed up as a Nieuport, but somewhat faster.


and extremely good looking biggrin

hell-to-the-YEAH!
[Linked Image]

#4569579 - 05/23/21 12:24 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
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Originally Posted by AlbrechtKaseltzer
Originally Posted by trustworthykebab
Originally Posted by AlbrechtKaseltzer
Originally Posted by vonBaur
The Hanriot shouldn't be that hard to make, either. You probably wouldn't have to make it from scratch. As I recall, it was very similar to the early Nieuports in appearance. I would imagine similar performance, too. A few tweaks to the closest one should do it.

I've read that the Hanriot HD.1 drew heavily from early Sopwith designs like the Strutter - which Hanriot had previously built on license - though the Nieuport aesthetic is unmistakable on the Hanriot.

At ~115 mph, the Hanriot's somewhat faster than any Nieuport fighter save for the infamous Nieuport 28. That's what I get out of Windsock, but lemme know if there's other info out there.

So basically a Sopwith Strutter/Pup dressed up as a Nieuport, but somewhat faster.


and extremely good looking biggrin

hell-to-the-YEAH!
[Linked Image]

My dear sir you give me pain with that Italian paintjob...Now I want our front even more!

#4569591 - 05/23/21 02:57 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: AlbrechtKaseltzer]  
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VonS Offline
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Originally Posted by AlbrechtKaseltzer
I've read that the Hanriot HD.1 drew heavily from early Sopwith designs like the Strutter - which Hanriot had previously built on license - though the Nieuport aesthetic is unmistakable on the Hanriot. At ~115 mph, the Hanriot's somewhat faster than any Nieuport fighter save for the infamous Nieuport 28. That's what I get out of Windsock, but lemme know if there's other info out there. So basically a Sopwith Strutter/Pup dressed up as a Nieuport, but somewhat faster.


The Hanriot would be a welcome addition indeed to the WOFF series. It is faster than the Nieup. 17 to 23 series.

The Nieup. 24 and 27 are about the same or a bit higher in top speed (116-7 mph/187 kph) - although, keeping in mind that we are talking about WW1 - those are probably best factory specs and may have been lower in the field. Never understood why some pilots preferred the Hanriot to the Nieup. 24-27 series - my favorite Nieup. is the 27 - but I suppose that double-spar lower wing on the Hanriot gave more comfort in dives, although the N.27 did use a thicker single spar, and thicker v-struts, than the N.24.

Ah, always new mysteries to contemplate in the world of WW1 aircraft and design.

Happy flying all,
Von S smile2


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#4569597 - 05/23/21 04:26 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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Originally Posted by trustworthykebab
My dear sir you give me pain with that Italian paintjob...Now I want our front even more!

Yeah, my ideal "ask" would be to include the eastern & southern fronts, along w/Italy + Russia + Austria-Hungary. These are stories that I've never seen get told in a WWI air war game before, and there's a certain unique exoticism to being able to have the experience of flying as, say, a Russian pilot in the final days of the Tsar.

It seems to me like it would be pretty doable, too...

-In terms of game mechanics, just treat the east & south as new "regions" like the game already has w/Flanders, Alsace, Verdun etc.

-You can rely primarily on airplane models that already exist in game: Austria-Hungary relied heavily on German aircraft, Italy & Russia on French etc.

-The scale of the necessary units would be far fewer for these two fronts combined than what OBD has already put in for the west. Germany only had about 10ish non-fighter units back east, and just one actual Jagdstaffel on the eastern front (with another one on the Macedonian front). Austria-Hungary's air service topped out at 77 squadrons total (though about half that number carried the heavy lifting), and in Italy 23 squadrons accounted for all the ace pilots. Russia tops out at like 15 squadrons.

So with ~100ish squadrons combined, you could easily capture most of the historical experience on these multiple fronts. Compare that to the roughly 500 units OBD has placed on the western front already.

Added bonuses:

-For the first time ever, you could trace the actual career paths of German fighter pilots who actually started out on the eastern front before transferring out west - e.g. I remember some dude named Manfred started his career with FFA 69 near Brest-Litovsk.

-For the first time ever, there could be a chance for people to fly one of the Oeffag-built Albatros D.III's - which look very very similar to the German-made ones already in game, but reportedly had markedly superior performance.

-For the first time ever, you could fly with or against Godwin Brumowski, Francesco Baracca, Alexander Kozakov etc - accomplished fighter pilots who so often get forgotten because they weren't stationed out on the western front.

-If OBD included Belgian squadrons on the west, they could use the Hanriot HD.1 in both Belgium and Italy, and at that point you've basically got a complete fighter complement for the Italian units. You'd just need a Caproni model or two to start to fill out the Italian side.

A pony would also be nice.

#4569598 - 05/23/21 04:35 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: VonS]  
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Originally Posted by VonS
Originally Posted by AlbrechtKaseltzer
I've read that the Hanriot HD.1 drew heavily from early Sopwith designs like the Strutter - which Hanriot had previously built on license - though the Nieuport aesthetic is unmistakable on the Hanriot. At ~115 mph, the Hanriot's somewhat faster than any Nieuport fighter save for the infamous Nieuport 28. That's what I get out of Windsock, but lemme know if there's other info out there. So basically a Sopwith Strutter/Pup dressed up as a Nieuport, but somewhat faster.


The Hanriot would be a welcome addition indeed to the WOFF series. It is faster than the Nieup. 17 to 23 series.

The Nieup. 24 and 27 are about the same or a bit higher in top speed (116-7 mph/187 kph) - although, keeping in mind that we are talking about WW1 - those are probably best factory specs and may have been lower in the field. Never understood why some pilots preferred the Hanriot to the Nieup. 24-27 series - my favorite Nieup. is the 27 - but I suppose that double-spar lower wing on the Hanriot gave more comfort in dives, although the N.27 did use a thicker single spar, and thicker v-struts, than the N.24.

Ah, always new mysteries to contemplate in the world of WW1 aircraft and design.

Happy flying all,
Von S smile2

So I'm going off of Windsock and a couple book-length sources that have the N 24 as the fastest of the bunch, topping out at 176 km/h (109 mph). Would you happen to recall who has the N 24/27 at 187 kph? I'm always on the hunt for as many sources as possible, because I know the information from any one author is going to be super incomplete. It's so maddening trying to patch it all together! (I suspect the major discrepancies are coming from measuring a craft's speed at different altitudes and/or with different engines)

#4569600 - 05/23/21 04:51 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Other wish list ideas:

-The Sopwith Dolphin! This was all over the place throughout 1918. Probably the one thing I'd consider to be a "glaring hole" for fighters, historically speaking.

-the Roland D.II/D.IIa series, to give German pilots an alternative to the Albatros in mid-1917. (At their peak, the Roland D.II's were ~1/4 of Germany's inventory on the western front in early/mid 1917). The D.VIa/D.VIb and the Siemens-Schuckert SSW's would also be cool for 1918, but the lack of choice is much more pressing for 1917 IMO.

-more of the big bombers: the British Handley Page series, the German Friedrichshafens (which outnumbered the Gothas for the last year to 17 months of the war), the Italian Capronis (if WOFF ever includes the Italian front!) - also the French Breguet bomber while you're at it (could draw very heavily from the pre-existing Breguet A14 model already in game)

-naval units w/more specialized aircraft - like the German Friedrichshafen FF33/FF49's or British Short Type 184. I've NEVER gotten to fight on the water in a WWI air war game!

-the ability to shoot a Foster-mounted Lewis gun in an upright position a la Albert Ball.

Do I expect all of these to happen? Like the eastern front/Italian front thing, not necessarily. But hey, maybe one of these might stick. You never know.

Last edited by AlbrechtKaseltzer; 05/23/21 04:54 AM.
#4569601 - 05/23/21 05:13 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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@Albrecht,

I agree that some of the sources are inconsistent. Possible also is that some of those speeds were taken at alt. If I remember correctly I think it's Jane's 'Fighter Aircraft of WW1' that lists some of those top speeds on later Nieups. as in the mid-180s kph. Some other websites that discuss the various numbers:

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_nieuport_27.html (I'm surprised to find that the top speed for the 27 is listed as noticeably higher than for the N.24, on 'History of War')

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34190 (some discussion there between the legendary Greybeard of RB3D FM fame, and Yavor D., regarding speeds on Nieups.)

https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/10352-nieuport-17-speed/ (Nieup. speeds and nos. being discussed on a RoF forum)

I don't have access to other sources at the moment, but I have also seen varied top speeds listed for the famous N.28 too - such as 196, 198, 203, also 205-6 kph - it becomes a rabbit hole of numbers. My own little pet theory is that the top speeds of 203 and 205-6 kph on the N.28 are with the 160-165 hp rotary mounts, Gnome?, maybe also LeRhone variants at such higher hp - while the lower nos. are with rotaries in the range of 120 to 150 hp, earlier Gnomes and whatnot. 160+ hp rotaries were also mounted on some Nieup. 24 types and possibly the 27 too - post-war, such as during the Russian Civil War (so those might have had top speeds similar to the N.28 too - I'm taking educated guesses here - "Crawford" is the fellow to contact on the FE2 forums over on CombatAce, for specs. on rare and obscure Nieup. variants - he is a walking encyclopedia of all things related to the eastern front in WW1).

But to get back on topic regarding this wish list - I am wishing for the SSW D.1 to appear eventually (the Nieup. 16 knock-off) - used as a fighter briefly in 1917. Rumor has it that some German pilots preferred its maneuverability to that of the early Albies (the D.I and D.II). Possible also is that the SSW D.1 sported some light over-compression on its Siemens-Halske 9-cyl. - 110 hp normal, up to about 140 hp with over-compressed throttle - top speed about 155 kph on that one but, again, who knows if that was taken at alt. or near SL. The later, bigger, 11-cyl. Siemens-Halske engines also had this over-compression ability. I wonder if Mikael Carlson has this over-compressed part of the throttle on his Pfalz D.VIII.

Cheers all and happy flying,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 05/23/21 05:21 AM. Reason: Edited post.

// Installation instructions regarding WOFF UE/PE/BH&H2 on Macs (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // WOFF/WOTR mods. (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFWOTRmods) // VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. // FE2 FM & Realism mods. (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // RoF United AI/DM & Other mods. (https://tinyurl.com/RoFmodsVonS) //
#4569602 - 05/23/21 05:43 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Originally Posted by VonS
@Albrecht,

I agree that some of the sources are inconsistent. Possible also is that some of those speeds were taken at alt. If I remember correctly I think it's Jane's 'Fighter Aircraft of WW1' that lists some of those top speeds on later Nieups. as in the mid-180s kph. Some other websites that discuss the various numbers:

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_nieuport_27.html (I'm surprised to find that the top speed for the 27 is listed as noticeably higher than for the N.24, on 'History of War')

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34190 (some discussion there between the legendary Greybeard of RB3D FM fame, and Yavor D., regarding speeds on Nieups.)

https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/10352-nieuport-17-speed/ (Nieup. speeds and nos. being discussed on a RoF forum)

I don't have access to other sources at the moment, but I have also seen varied top speeds listed for the famous N.28 too - such as 196, 198, 203, also 205-6 kph - it becomes a rabbit hole of numbers. My own little pet theory is that the top speeds of 203 and 205-6 kph on the N.28 are with the 160-165 hp rotary mounts, Gnome?, maybe also LeRhone variants at such higher hp - while the lower nos. are with rotaries in the range of 120 to 150 hp, earlier Gnomes and whatnot. 160+ hp rotaries were also mounted on some Nieup. 24 types and possibly the 27 too - post-war, such as during the Russian Civil War (so those might have had top speeds similar to the N.28 too - I'm taking educated guesses here - "Crawford" is the fellow to contact on the FE2 forums over on CombatAce, for specs. on rare and obscure Nieup. variants - he is a walking encyclopedia of all things related to the eastern front in WW1).

But to get back on topic regarding this wish list - I am wishing for the SSW D.1 to appear eventually (the Nieup. 16 knock-off) - used as a fighter briefly in 1917. Rumor has it that some German pilots preferred its maneuverability to that of the early Albies (the D.I and D.II). Possible also is that the SSW D.1 sported some light over-compression on its Siemens-Halske 9-cyl. - 110 hp normal, up to about 140 hp with over-compressed throttle - top speed about 155 kph on that one but, again, who knows if that was taken at alt. or near SL. The later, bigger, 11-cyl. Siemens-Halske engines also had this over-compression ability. I wonder if Mikael Carlson has this over-compressed part of the throttle on his Pfalz D.VIII.

Cheers all and happy flying,
Von S smile2

Thank you, this is really helpful! I'll go digging around to find the Jane book. I also see that the links you provided have plenty of other sources for me to search out. You really went above and beyond here.

Last edited by AlbrechtKaseltzer; 05/23/21 05:44 AM.
#4569612 - 05/23/21 10:29 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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From the Janes book... The Hanriot top speed is 183 kph.

#4569812 - 05/24/21 07:22 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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epower Offline
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A Ring and/or Aldis sight for the Sopwith Pup. As part of my research for the DID, I downloaded all of No. 54 Squadron's Combat reports from 1917 and every last one of them show that the sight used was either the Ring, the Aldis or both. After June 1917, it was Aldis exclusively.

Samples attached.

Attached Files Cole CR 14 April 1917.jpgStrugnell CR 14 April 1917 .jpg
Last edited by epower; 05/24/21 07:22 PM.
#4570065 - 05/27/21 04:50 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Another feature that would be great is if we had the option of immediate transfers. Sometimes your squadron switches from fighter to reconnaissance overnight, and what makes it even worse is that there won't be any observer pilots...so you don't get to fly missions to work your way any closer to getting that transfer. So your pilot is just stuck in limbo. There really needs to be a fall-back option to save the gameplay from these sorts of situations.

EDIT: Also, what happens if your squadron goes out of service? "Your campaign is over." So there's another reason WOFF needs to have the option for immediate transfers.

Last edited by AlbrechtKaseltzer; 05/27/21 05:13 AM.
#4570903 - 06/04/21 01:03 AM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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I would love the ability to manually assign skins to AI squadmates. Most squads have unique markings for each squad member for when using historical pilots, but when using generated pilots they default to the same skin for everyone. Since most of these "historical pilot" skins are just properly squadron marked planes, it would be nice to, at least for the Player squad, to be able to have everyone with proper markings.

#4572256 - 06/19/21 05:22 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Perhaps a revision to the damage modeling for the coolant system for inline engines? I'm not sure if the coolant reservoir is supposed to represent the radiator, but there doesn't seem to be any difference in terms of the placement of the reservoir/radiator for inline planes. For example, the radiator for the Se5a and the Spad series are at the front of the engine, while the radiator for the Albs is located on the upper right wing. Perhaps this is taken into account in the drawing of the damage boxes for each, but I'm not sure. Also, shouldn't there be a more significant difference between the two in terms of hit probability and hit points?

Related to this is how damage to the engine is handled (I know I have brought this up before). Currently, there appears to be a 1 to 1 linear relationship between hits to the engine and loss of engine power. Any way to make this linear relationship non-linear or logarithmic, instead? As an alternative, don't let the engine lose significant power until its hit points are almost used up. At the same time, allow damage to the radiator after a certain length of time to result in loss of engine power as it becomes overheated?

Sorry for my ramblings. I have recently been thinking about creating a mod to revise some of the hit point values in the damage model, so this naturally came up again.

#4572584 - 06/23/21 05:30 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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My vote also goes to adding Belgium and eastern and/or North Italian front (I would buy it as DLC)

#4573565 - 07/03/21 05:20 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Just a thank you...a belated thank you. I've been meaning to do this for a few weeks now, but I noticed that two of my pet peeves have been addressed. First, rendezvous altitudes are now included in the briefings for escort missions (I haven't noticed any on intercept missions, but hopefully some day). Second, anti-aircraft bursts now show up even if they weren't initially in your fov.


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4573892 - 07/07/21 12:45 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
Perhaps a revision to the damage modeling for the coolant system for inline engines? I'm not sure if the coolant reservoir is supposed to represent the radiator, but there doesn't seem to be any difference in terms of the placement of the reservoir/radiator for inline planes. For example, the radiator for the Se5a and the Spad series are at the front of the engine, while the radiator for the Albs is located on the upper right wing. Perhaps this is taken into account in the drawing of the damage boxes for each, but I'm not sure. Also, shouldn't there be a more significant difference between the two in terms of hit probability and hit points?

Related to this is how damage to the engine is handled (I know I have brought this up before). Currently, there appears to be a 1 to 1 linear relationship between hits to the engine and loss of engine power. Any way to make this linear relationship non-linear or logarithmic, instead? As an alternative, don't let the engine lose significant power until its hit points are almost used up. At the same time, allow damage to the radiator after a certain length of time to result in loss of engine power as it becomes overheated?

Sorry for my ramblings. I have recently been thinking about creating a mod to revise some of the hit point values in the damage model, so this naturally came up again.


There's really little need for modification.
Each radiator has its own damage box, as does the engine and oil, fuel etc all placed correctly and the box is relative size to the actual object, so that caters to allow one small radiator to be harder to hit than another. No there is not 1:1 damage for the engine, we have code that ramps it up as you say already it takes significant damage before it breaks. Also there is progressive damage that can occur on most parts. When the radiator is badly damaged after a while the engine will usually become damaged.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4573898 - 07/07/21 03:04 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Thank you for clearing up my confusion about the radiator and cooling system, Pol.

We the regard to the engine damage, I understand about the breakage rules and the progressive damage model for various subsystems. Very nicely done! However, I was mainly concerned with the "robustness" of the engine damage model. Being made mostly out of metal, shouldn't the hit points be a little higher than they are? I see that there is an 80% probability of causing damage when a bullet strike enters the engine damage box area, perhaps that could be tweaked a bit to reflect a greater possibility of ricochets or deflected bullet strikes that don't do much damage to the engine? Unless a critical part is hit (cracked cylinder, broken rocker arm, etc.), shouldn't the engine perform fairly normally until it has taken significant damage? In my experience, most WOFF aircraft lose significant engine power after only a few bullet strikes. Adjusting the values here might result in more challenging dogfights, IMO.

Please don't mind my ramblings on this subject; I understand that I have probably simplified things a bit, and I also realize you are dealing with game code that is almost 20 years old, so there may not be much that can be done without breaking something else. That's why this is in the wishlist thread! Thanks for listening!

#4575397 - 07/25/21 07:36 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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One Post Wonder Offline
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Make rank and running a squadron actually mean something. Allow Squadron Commanders to set up flights and decide who will fly, meeting general parameters where high command will say they want this section of front photographed 7 times over the next week or things like that. Have commanders manage their pilots morale by sending shaken up people on leave or grounding them for a few days. Send new pilots on easy flights so they can get their hours in without getting killed. Ordering planes, things like that. You could make a pretty good management game alone out of this, and I know that's not what this game is but why have ranks above flight leader at all if the duties of those ranks are not historically accurate? It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do compared to adding aircraft or flying in the middle east or over the Alps (which I'd also like but one thing at a time). This is an ancient game engine as I understand it, but what I'm suggesting would largely be text-based.

On another note, give flight leaders some leeway on who they want to fly with, which is historically accurate as I've read it. Also there should be every effort made to have like planes fly with like when possible. This thing where you're in a fast recon plane but half of your flight are Be2cs... that doesn't make sense, and I'm sure commanders at the time understood the drawbacks of setting up flights like that.

#4575452 - 07/26/21 02:00 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Since this is the wishlist thread, I thought I might post my pie-in-the-sky, never be able to be done wish: three (or more) FM's for AI crates: one for turn-fighters, one for "boom and zoom" fighters, and one for hybrid fighters that don't fit neatly into the first two categories. Actually, I guess what I am "wishing" for is for separate AI maneuvering routines, based on the type of plane they are flying. What I would like to avoid, for example, are Spad's that try to turn fight and Strutter's that boom and zoom.

Short of that, perhaps some plane types could be given a "favorite" or preferred manuever that would be chosen when in a jam? For instance, Pfalz's that dive out of trouble?

Just musing here....

#4575880 - 07/29/21 07:01 PM Re: Wish List for WOFF [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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Here's a thing I'm certain is impossible but would be a great fancy: Sea/floatplanes.


In realm of possibility though. Alb two seater ( C.III)?

Last edited by NotRelevant; 07/29/21 07:05 PM.

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Every guy's dream toy
by NoFlyBoy. 01/14/22 05:29 AM
Mountain Coaster in Switzerland
by Coot. 01/14/22 05:11 AM
Please bring back colors in TV & Movies.
by NoFlyBoy. 01/13/22 03:12 AM
Heavy rain causing mass flooding in minas gerais
by Blade_RJ. 01/12/22 10:53 PM
Not Staying Logged In
by Allen. 01/12/22 06:55 PM
Spitfire women
by NoFlyBoy. 01/11/22 09:28 AM
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