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#3882274 - 12/23/13 12:33 PM Allied Force new computer bad performance =/  
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Attackmack Offline
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So earlier i was playing F4AF on my 2008 iMac with bootcamp.
Needless to say, that computer was equipped with a very bad Graphics card but still i could run AF on 1920x1080 without any noticable stutter/lag escept for occationally on crowded airfields.

Now a few weeks ago I bought a new PC, its not a very powerful unit but its way more powerful then the iMac, and carries a much better Graphics card.
Without listing all the specs, just know that in every aspect this new comp is better equipped.

Yet even on 1280, with all Graphics turned down to minimum, i cant get AF to run smooth?

This is really bothering me, I cant understand how this is even possible. All other games run perfectly fine and and performs as expected, drivers and such are all up to date and I got no processes hogging up in the background.

The only diff softwarewise is that i bought Ayed pits and installed them, something i cant Believe to have an impact on performance.
What am I missing here?

Thankful for advice and tips on where to start tweaking this.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3882307 - 12/23/13 01:37 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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Newer hardware does not equate to better performance if the game was optimised for hardware back in the late 00s.

Are you running it on Win XP or are you on Win 7/8? - if so there are config changes required for AF and probably for the Graphics drivers - it was barely supported on Vista even.

are you on the last patch (13) from Lead Pursuit?


Lastly you may wish to get the original Falcon 4 and try BMS 4.32 instead - released in 2012 its far more modern than AF.


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#3882313 - 12/23/13 01:43 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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Since you installed fresh, do you still have the graphics on "Software" in setup?
Make sure your graphics card is selected.

#3882339 - 12/23/13 02:15 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: MigBuster]  
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Originally Posted By: MigBuster
Newer hardware does not equate to better performance if the game was optimised for hardware back in the late 00s.

Are you running it on Win XP or are you on Win 7/8? - if so there are config changes required for AF and probably for the Graphics drivers - it was barely supported on Vista even.

are you on the last patch (13) from Lead Pursuit?


Lastly you may wish to get the original Falcon 4 and try BMS 4.32 instead - released in 2012 its far more modern than AF.




Im running on Win8. Before this i was running win7 (on the imac bootcamp) and it was smooth as silk.
I have the latest patch installed, and as Floyed mentioned, yes I have the correct hardware selection ingame.


Im completely puzzled!?!? =(

I have tried BMS somewhat and while it sure seems to be better/realistic in every aspect, its just a bit TOO much for me at least right now. AF is just about right on the complexity since I dont have a whole lot of time to spend as of now, thats why im sticking with AF atm.
...if i can get it to run properly on my new rig.

#3882470 - 12/23/13 05:17 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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First thing to try is switching from "Direct3D T&L" to "Direct 3D" or vice-versa in graphics options. I remember that helped me some time ago when I upgraded my graphics card.

#3882475 - 12/23/13 05:20 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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BMS really isn't much more than AF as far as avionics. The main difference is that you need to tweak your "data cartridge" in BMS to properly set the radio frequencies and set up your MFDs. For the most part, this is a one-time thing; you set up your MFDs the way you like (and you can set them up the way they are in AF if you prefer) and you can set up your frequencies based on default recommendations. Both of these can be configured easily using Weapon Delivery Planner.


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#3882520 - 12/23/13 06:33 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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- Ice Offline
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I would say MFD setup can be a one-time thing, but you will need to update your radio freqs if you start from a different airbase or if flying online and have agreed on a different VHF freq. Just takes a few clicks from the UI screen tho, so no biggie.


- Ice
#3882548 - 12/23/13 07:20 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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With all due respect to HomeFries and Ice, F4AF is much simplified campared to BMS. Aside from data cardrige and radio there are more complex weapon deliveries mechanics (HARM modes, AGM-65 power up time, or GBU's with new sniper targeting pod for example). Not to mention you have to own original F4 to run BMS. Still F4AF is nice place to start your adventure with the Falcon if you can bare the obsolete graphics engine that is wink.

#3882584 - 12/23/13 08:13 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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- Ice Offline
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Not arguing here... AF is indeed simpler. Just wanted to clarify that BMS isn't really as "complex" as people make it sound. As for the weapon delivery modes, it is up to the player whether to use them or not. So really, it is only as complex as you want it to be. Want to play with the new HARM delivery modes? Sure! Or just load a HTS pod and fire via HAD mode. AGM power up is part of the FENCE IN procedure so shouldn't be a problem. And so on and so forth....

Personally, a fully clickable pit with 6DoF for TIR alone is enough to warrant the jump to BMS. I got so sick of going 2D-3D-2D over and over again (had a button mapped to my HOTAS for it!) and being able to do all my "work" in 3D in BMS really helps with the immersion.


- Ice
#3882795 - 12/24/13 01:58 AM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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Attackmack Offline
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In the future, if i get my simpit up and running and invest in trackIR, i might consider BMS =)
But right now im happy with what Little time i can spend and as mentioned, AF gives me a perfect mix of time, complexity and joy =)


On Another note, i reinstalled AF tonite but with no change to the situation.
So i did some experiments.

When flying above sea i avrage just under 30fps.
When i get to land, and fly low above Buildings and cities, it drops down to about 15-20...
Taxiing to takeoff from a crowded Airport in Campaign is difficult to say the least.


Whats more weird is that it doesnt seem to care if I use ayes pits or not, or even what resolution/gfx settings i choose, the impact on the frames is small, maybe +/-5...

Its like F4AF just doesnt like my hardware =(

#3882805 - 12/24/13 02:23 AM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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What exactly is your CPU / gfx card / RAM?

You installed it to an SSD?

Win 8 and graphics drivers could be the issue - haven't seen anybody try and run AF on Win 8 so not aware of issues.

Graphics card configuration might be required to increase fps.

Also check some basics - what other programs are running (AV)?


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#3882971 - 12/24/13 11:58 AM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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- Ice Offline
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No TIR? I was like that when I played AF when it came out, and I mainly did A-G stuff. I do hope you get a TIR, I can't recommend it enough. Flying without TIR is like flying an A-G mission without bringing a TGP. biggrin

As for your framerate problems, it could be two things: 1) Windows 8 or 2) weak hardware. As others have said, just because it's "new" doesn't mean it's more powerful than your 2008 iMac. Even if the parts installed are "new" in the sense that they have been released within the last 2 years, that doesn't mean they are powerful. Parts are released all the time and some are catered to the low-end, casual, mid-end, enthusiast, and money-burning-a-hole-in-my-pocket demographics. Best solution here is to post your system specs and let the community see if it is up to snuff.

As for the OS, any chance you can install Win7 or an earlier OS? If you have bootcamp, then I assume you have at least a copy of WinXP or Vista? Then try installing that in your new system and check your framerates. Remember to download the proper drivers for your hardware depending on your OS.

Good luck!


- Ice
#3883408 - 12/24/13 10:26 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: MigBuster]  
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Originally Posted By: MigBuster
What exactly is your CPU / gfx card / RAM?

You installed it to an SSD?

Win 8 and graphics drivers could be the issue - haven't seen anybody try and run AF on Win 8 so not aware of issues.

Graphics card configuration might be required to increase fps.

Also check some basics - what other programs are running (AV)?




New pc:
AMD A10-6700 APU 3.7 GHz
Radeon HD 8670D Dual Graphics
8gb RAM
Windows 8.1 x64

Old iMac
Intel Core i3
Radeon HD 4670
8gb RAM
Windows 7 x64


I have a very basic knowledge about computer hardware (knew alot several years ago, then I got the iMac and since then Everythings changed alot!) but safe to say, I expect both of these rigs to perform excellent on vanilla Allied Force.

And since the iMac runs it wonderfully, its puzzling the new one doesnt.
I only get 30fps in AF, and it doesnt seem to care how i set the resolution/gfx settings either.

All drivers are latest and AF is patched with 1.013.
And based on the performance of Everything else ive tried, Everything performs MUCH MUCH better on the new rig.


The only difference is the OS and this is where I migh run into a big issue.
This new rig is a complete kit bought at a good price. I know its not a good or anywhere near the highend gaming rigs today, but it was cheap and still outperforms the iMac on gaming. And I simply needed a second rig aswell.
The problem with it is that I tried reverting from the included windows8 to windows7 but the hardware simply wont accept the drivers for windows 7...
More exact, the network and Graphics wont accept any drivers, and Believe me ive tried every driver i could find on just about ever site.

It seems the hardware has been somehow hardwired to only accept the drivers supplied by HP (who makes the computer) thus forcing me to use Windows 8.
This is awful since I prefer win7 over win8 and leads to a whole other discussion about the ethics of said company to force the choice of OS upon the user, but ill leave that aside.

#3884213 - 12/26/13 02:51 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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Floyd Offline
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Win 8.1 might have problems with the Directx 9 of F4:AF.
You can install it:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/179113/en-us

Another idea is to run F4:AF as an application in Win 7 or XP
compatability mode.

If you run 'dxdiag', are all Diectx functions activated (display tab)?
Woukd be bad to not have hardware acceleration activated ...

#3884728 - 12/27/13 01:54 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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Attackmack Offline
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Thanks for the tips Floyd.

Sad to say, Ive now checked through Everything you listed and all seems to be in order.
Ive come to the conclusion that it must be windows 8 (or rather 8.1 which is what my puter was delivered with).

I do have windows7 but as i mentioned earlier, HP has locked the hardware somehow and I am completely bound to use THEIR drivers and they only deliver them for win8.1 for this rig =(


Slowely im coming to terms with being forced into BMS. And its not like i dislike bms, it does seem superior in every way, It just seems so daunting! Like starting over again...


Oh well...Theres not much else to do now.
TrackIR is on the "get" list for next month!

#3884779 - 12/27/13 03:36 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#3884847 - 12/27/13 05:33 PM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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Originally Posted By: Attackmack

Slowely im coming to terms with being forced into BMS. And its not like i dislike bms, it does seem superior in every way, It just seems so daunting! Like starting over again...


Oh well...Theres not much else to do now.
TrackIR is on the "get" list for next month!



Lol, once you get a few flights in, you'll wonder why you even bothered resisting!! wink Might even be a good idea to hold off BMS until after you get the TIR... the fully-working 6DoF clickable pit should be amazing after AF.

As for "starting over again," if you've played AF for some time, it shouldn't be too hard to adapt to BMS. Just a few changes to how some things are done, but I would say that if you are capable of playing a campaign in AF (and make good progress in it), you have maybe 80% of what you need to know. Surely, the core things such as A-A fighting, A-G searching, and most of weapons employment CCIP/CCRP stay the same, if not 99.99% so.

Good luck!


- Ice
#3885517 - 12/29/13 01:27 AM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: - Ice]  
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Attackmack Offline
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
Originally Posted By: Attackmack

Slowely im coming to terms with being forced into BMS. And its not like i dislike bms, it does seem superior in every way, It just seems so daunting! Like starting over again...


Oh well...Theres not much else to do now.
TrackIR is on the "get" list for next month!



Lol, once you get a few flights in, you'll wonder why you even bothered resisting!! wink Might even be a good idea to hold off BMS until after you get the TIR... the fully-working 6DoF clickable pit should be amazing after AF.

As for "starting over again," if you've played AF for some time, it shouldn't be too hard to adapt to BMS. Just a few changes to how some things are done, but I would say that if you are capable of playing a campaign in AF (and make good progress in it), you have maybe 80% of what you need to know. Surely, the core things such as A-A fighting, A-G searching, and most of weapons employment CCIP/CCRP stay the same, if not 99.99% so.

Good luck!


Yeah I hope so, its just that BMS seems to require way much more understanding foreverything.then AF ever did.
I can't say Ive played a lot of AF, certainly not compared to you guys here, and as far as I have played have been far from successful.
But in AF i felt I could play a campaign even if I'm not very knowledgable about air tactics, munitions, strategies and the finer details of what the aircrafts systems can and can't do.
In bms, i feel out of place flipping a switch not knowing in detail what it does and why its flipped.
I guess this is the charm of it all, but it also requires time that i don't really have at the moment.


In any case, since I'm an impulsive nutcase I ordered TrackIR tonight and should expect it before next weekend.
From time to time I do invest a lot of time in flightsims, and racing sims aswell so I'm confident this will turn out to be a good purchase.
It'll be a christmaspresent to myself and a good way to start the new year =)
Looking forward to next weekend!

#3885639 - 12/29/13 11:01 AM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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#3885644 - 12/29/13 11:48 AM Re: Allied Force new computer bad performance =/ [Re: Attackmack]  
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Originally Posted By: Attackmack
Yeah I hope so, its just that BMS seems to require way much more understanding foreverything.then AF ever did.
I can't say Ive played a lot of AF, certainly not compared to you guys here, and as far as I have played have been far from successful.
But in AF i felt I could play a campaign even if I'm not very knowledgable about air tactics, munitions, strategies and the finer details of what the aircrafts systems can and can't do.
In bms, i feel out of place flipping a switch not knowing in detail what it does and why its flipped.
I guess this is the charm of it all, but it also requires time that i don't really have at the moment.


In any case, since I'm an impulsive nutcase I ordered TrackIR tonight and should expect it before next weekend.
From time to time I do invest a lot of time in flightsims, and racing sims aswell so I'm confident this will turn out to be a good purchase.
It'll be a christmaspresent to myself and a good way to start the new year =)
Looking forward to next weekend!


Congrats on the TIR purchase! Trust me, once you get it, you'll wonder how you ever managed without it! I never did A-A in AF because I couldn't keep my eyes on the enemy and the "padlock" feature just confused me, but with TIR, well, I give the bad guys a good fight now, and manage to win my fair share! Being able to padlock the enemy by moving your head, then checking the HUD (speed, orientation) and then back on the enemy with just half-a-second head movement, that's when you'll see how your purchase paid off.

As for switch flicking, if you are referring to startup procedures, BMS has a really, really, REALLY good startup procedure tutorial (need to disable TIR for it though!) and Red Dog's Dash-1 manual will show you each switch and its function, so you are covered on that front. The Dash-1 manual is even included in the base BMS install so there is no need to scour the interwebz to look for it! smile

If you are referring to the switches you will be using during combat, then that is also easy to cover and since you will be using those on EVERY FLIGHT (vs. the startup switches as you will probably not do cold starts 100% of the time), you will learn them quick. Also makes you appreciate the importance of the Fence In step.

Probably the most confusing bit will be the ICP panel, its modes and sub pages. How to check for estimated fuel remaining at base? How to check ETA to steerpoint? How to make mark points and which SOI to check for? How to set up datalink? And so on.... I would not worry about this as I would say this is icing on the cake and is easy to teach. Heck, on multiplayer flights, I still hear a lot of "how do you...?" questions and is solved easily.

Good luck!


- Ice
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