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#3865115 - 11/20/13 05:35 AM So the FW190 A-3 not available in game?  
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Hmm so i finally checked out the website for this and the premium package says that 2 planes will only be available with the premium package. Is this info correct? If it is, that's already a turn off for me.

I'll have a browse through the official forums but if so, I'm gonna just wait for DCS: Dora.

#3865118 - 11/20/13 05:44 AM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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It says "and 2 special aircraft (La-5 and Fw 190 A-3, which cannot be obtained in the game". I do recall it used to say they would be available to purchase separately after release, just won't be available within the game.

#3865119 - 11/20/13 05:47 AM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: TheBlackPenguin]  
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Originally Posted By: TheBlackPenguin
It says "and 2 special aircraft (La-5 and Fw 190 A-3, which cannot be obtained in the game". I do recall it used to say they would be available to purchase separately after release, just won't be available within the game.

Still trawling through their forums to get a definitive answer. But if it's not available in game and you have to pay for it either in the premium package or with money later... well that's the very definition of P2W. Disappointing. I hope it isn't so.

Ok, found something in the FAQ:

What planes do I get?

* Standard edition - 8 planes; Premium edition - 10 planes on release day.
* La-5 and Fw 190 A-3 will only be available to Premium edition owners. If you have Standard edition you'll be able to buy them separately after the release in spring 2014.
* Not all planes announced for release will be available during early access period.


Will have to think about this one.

Last edited by WynnTTr; 11/20/13 05:53 AM.
#3865208 - 11/20/13 12:49 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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The premium package buys you both the La-5 and Fw 190 right from the start. The standard edition does not, but buth planes can be purchased seperately after release sometime next year. That's my way of reading it.


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#3865211 - 11/20/13 12:58 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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I think the 190 is going to be devastating in this game as it is auto everything.

Last night I tried a dive in the LaGG and once you throttle back the engine cools VERY fast at that speed. I actually wish the 190 wasn't in the game at all because I like flying the IL-2 and feel that a single 190 is so devastating to a pack of Sturmoviks that it spoils it, esp as there were no 190's at Stalingrad.

#3865218 - 11/20/13 01:11 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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I think the 190's and La5's will be limited by the servers, i want to fly them, but maybe in their own servers, maybe as a dogfight match up, until the sim catches up with them with the next theatre release.

#3865221 - 11/20/13 01:20 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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AFAIK the russian community is already building a smaller map especially for the Fw 190 (around Velikiye Luki).


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#3865258 - 11/20/13 02:34 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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If it is like RoF (which it is) then it will all be limited by the server hosts. You almost never get to fly the best planes in RoF. It will probably be the same here and if they do include them they will be heavily limited in their number.


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#3865444 - 11/20/13 08:37 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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Originally 2 planes (I forget which) were included in both versions of the game but were not accessible from the start--you had to "unlock" them somehow or another during gameplay.

This decision was later reversed and those 2 planes will not be locked.

The statement "La-5 and Fw 190 A-3, which cannot be obtained in the game" refers to the fact that they are not unlockable, you must pay for them. You either buy the premium version or you buy the DLC later for the standard ed. Frankly I think the statement should be modified as it now is contrasting itself with a situation that no longer exists.



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#3865533 - 11/20/13 11:18 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally 2 planes (I forget which) were included in both versions of the game but were not accessible from the start--you had to "unlock" them somehow or another during gameplay.

Yak-1 and Bf109-G2

Last edited by Rama; 11/20/13 11:18 PM.
#3865583 - 11/21/13 01:49 AM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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Originally Posted By: WynnTTr
Hmm so i finally checked out the website for this and the premium package says that 2 planes will only be available with the premium package. Is this info correct? If it is, that's already a turn off for me.
I'll have a browse through the official forums but if so, I'm gonna just wait for DCS: Dora.


This IL2 BoS is what you will get buying the premium.. I am not sure if the La & FW will be there on release .. but when they are ready if you buy Premium you will et them when they are available.

Originally Posted By: WynnTTr

Still trawling through their forums to get a definitive answer. But if it's not available in game and you have to pay for it either in the premium package or with money later... well that's the very definition of P2W. Disappointing. I hope it isn't so.


I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. This sim is going to be revolutionary.. right now it is in Alpha ... but when it is released and starts to evolve it will be more than worth it. I wouldn't worry about "P2W" .. this is not WT.. and believe me this will be unlike anything you have ever flown..


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#3865617 - 11/21/13 03:26 AM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Originally Posted By: Bearcat99


I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. This sim is going to be revolutionary.. right now it is in Alpha ... but when it is released and starts to evolve it will be more than worth it. I wouldn't worry about "P2W" .. this is not WT.. and believe me this will be unlike anything you have ever flown..


How so? Like many here I've flown alot of flight sims, I don't see how they could make it any more special than some sims out there. Does it beat a DCS title for realism or FM? a BMS for immersive campaign, il2 for modability and sheer depth?

Sorry, call me old but the old tired lines don't work as well as they used to anymore. I just don't see how it can do anything new in the world of combat flight sims.

The problem I have with the FW/LA5 being paid only is that it does make it P2W. Imagine bringing a 190 into a competitive online match.

Now I don't have a problem with it being P2W if the game was structured around that, like RoF is, which is basically free at its core and you choose which planes you want to buy.
But this is being sold as a complete game at a premium price. When I buy "complete" games I'd expect to get everything that the game has to offer on release. It seems like 777 Studios want it all - charge a premium price for a full game but then have a shop system like RoF too.
That bugs me for some reason and I think I'll skip this whole series. Wasn't much into the eastern front anyway and I'd only really be flying half the planes - the Axis ones.

#3865636 - 11/21/13 04:08 AM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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Originally Posted By: WynnTTr

How so? Like many here I've flown alot of flight sims, I don't see how they could make it any more special than some sims out there. Does it beat a DCS title for realism or FM? a BMS for immersive campaign, il2 for modability and sheer depth?

Sorry, call me old but the old tired lines don't work as well as they used to anymore. I just don't see how it can do anything new in the world of combat flight sims.

The problem I have with the FW/LA5 being paid only is that it does make it P2W. Imagine bringing a 190 into a competitive online match.

Now I don't have a problem with it being P2W if the game was structured around that, like RoF is, which is basically free at its core and you choose which planes you want to buy.
But this is being sold as a complete game at a premium price. When I buy "complete" games I'd expect to get everything that the game has to offer on release. It seems like 777 Studios want it all - charge a premium price for a full game but then have a shop system like RoF too.
That bugs me for some reason and I think I'll skip this whole series. Wasn't much into the eastern front anyway and I'd only really be flying half the planes - the Axis ones.


Suit yourself.. The business model of RoF is a sound business model that will keep developers getting paid and simmers getting new content. From my understanding this will not be quite like RoF.. In any case, regardless to what you think this isn't pay to win. IMO the sounds, graphics, and FMs are just as good if not better than anything out there including CoD & DCS.. As far as the campaign goes.. I have no idea how that will be because at the moment the sim is 32% finished.. and beating IL2 for modability and depth? That may not happen at all anywhere for a long long time. IL2 is still IMO the best pound for pound WWII flight sim on the market when you factor in a complete package. There are some sims that do many things better.. but no sim on the market today does everything that IL2 does in total the way IL2 does it.. but BoS could be that product.. because CoD will not be... Neither will DCS WWII. DCS could... but as far as I am concerned DCS WWII is still just a concept until I see something more concrete and as good as the DCS P-51 is.. one well modeled warbird does not a WWII sim make.

I can't convince you and I won't try .. The sim will. If you are the simmer you insinuate you are you will be getting BoS within the next 12 months. cheers


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#3865656 - 11/21/13 04:43 AM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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WynnTTr, I really recommend reading the interview with Oleg Maddox, this is the last section:

"Fred: Hardware / bandwidth advances mean that massively multiplayer combat flight simulation is now possible. Advances in 3D and virtual reality technology will also make the experience even more compelling and realistic. Do you have any thoughts about the future of online flight simulation?

Oleg: Advances in technology also mean that budgets have grown exponentially.

At the same time, the genre has shrunk. There are not that many flight sim fans out there anymore. That means that if anyone has the budget to make a really big online game, they will probably not make it a flight sim. And if anyone tries to make an online flight sim, they will not have anywhere near the budget they need to compete.

There is probably a future in massive online flying games, but not in realistic massive multiplayer online (MMO) flight sims.

Finally, advances in technology mean that computers become more capable of complex physics. And todays flight sims are still ways off from doing full complex aerodynamics. Were years if not decades away from doing real-time wind tunnels on complex 3D shapes. Even todays supercomputers cant do anywhere near fast enough. So, with all advances, people doing realistic flight sims will probably spend their resources on making flight more realistic, meaning there will not be that much left for massive online. If you have a thousand planes in the air, each is probably using a lot less bandwidth, and therefore is much less realistic, than a sim capped at 32 online players.

So the future? I think theres a fork in the road. There is a path towards more accessible, more massive, less realistic online or towards less accessible, smaller, more realistic games."

The rest of part 1 is here.

I do believe I saw Jason say multiple times that the business model will be different for BOS, but its yet to be finalized. Honestly, whatever he chooses he is damned as someone is going to complain though.

I have the DCS P-51, brilliant plane, but its an oddball for the sim as it doesn't yet have a theatre and that could well be awhile away while BOS is already shaping up well ahead of DCS WWII, which I backed too (I want to see the genre flourish again).

Look through the threads over on the Il2 BOS forum , personally I look for feedback from real pilots and especially those with experience of types close to the planes modelled.

#3865659 - 11/21/13 05:18 AM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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I'm all for realism. But it's hardly a revolutionary step or "not been done before".

AS to business model I don't understand what path they're going to take. So far it looks to me that they want to charge what a full game costs nowadays but also have an item shop like RoF. So you're not only not getting full content but you have to pay extra on top of the full game purchase.

This is not for cosmetic or convenience fluff items either. This is for planes that would dominate in any competitive online server - and it's not available in game. In essence, it's the very definition of P2W. Like gold ammo was in WoT but more significant cos it's the actual powerful tank being available only for cash now.

#3865703 - 11/21/13 10:55 AM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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Well we can agree to disagree on that point. I don't see it that way. In any case ... BoS will be on your HD within the next 12 months.. 18 at the most if not sooner. I'll see you then. wink


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#3865717 - 11/21/13 12:13 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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I must be weird. I bought A LOT of aircraft for Rise of Flight and "performance on competetive servers" was probably the least important point for me when deciding which one to buy.

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#3865791 - 11/21/13 03:12 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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It's hardly pay to win when you may not even be able to fly the 190 or La5 online since servers have full control over the planesets. I've been on servers in RoF that allow a couple of Camels while the rest are unlimited SPADs or Nieups, or Se5As - if those Camels don't make it back, they get subtracted from the pool of available Camels. Each time someone takes off in a Camel, less Camels available until they bring it back and if they don't - have to wait a while for a new one to replace it. Additionally factories can be bombed and that prevents more Camels from being made. Same with DVIIF for the Central side.

So it's hardly pay to win, that's just a label some like to toss about to simplify things.

Last edited by NattyIced; 11/21/13 03:13 PM.
#3865869 - 11/21/13 05:57 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: Para_Bellum]  
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Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
I must be weird. I bought A LOT of aircraft for Rise of Flight and "performance on competetive servers" was probably the least important point for me when deciding which one to buy.
driving


Me too.. I bought them because they were on sale but I rarely fly them.. but I bought them so I could have them if I wanted to try them and because I used to make balsa models of them when I was a kid... smile

Originally Posted By: NattyIced
It's hardly pay to win when you may not even be able to fly the 190 or La5 online since servers have full control over the planesets. I've been on servers in RoF that allow a couple of Camels while the rest are unlimited SPADs or Nieups, or Se5As - if those Camels don't make it back, they get subtracted from the pool of available Camels. Each time someone takes off in a Camel, less Camels available until they bring it back and if they don't - have to wait a while for a new one to replace it. Additionally factories can be bombed and that prevents more Camels from being made. Same with DVIIF for the Central side.

So it's hardly pay to win, that's just a label some like to toss about to simplify things.


Or to justify their dislike of a product ...


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#3865884 - 11/21/13 06:21 PM Re: So the FW190 A-3 not available in game? [Re: NattyIced]  
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Originally Posted By: NattyIced
It's hardly pay to win when you may not even be able to fly the 190 or La5 online since servers have full control over the planesets. I've been on servers in RoF that allow a couple of Camels while the rest are unlimited SPADs or Nieups, or Se5As - if those Camels don't make it back, they get subtracted from the pool of available Camels. Each time someone takes off in a Camel, less Camels available until they bring it back and if they don't - have to wait a while for a new one to replace it. Additionally factories can be bombed and that prevents more Camels from being made. Same with DVIIF for the Central side.

So it's hardly pay to win, that's just a label some like to toss about to simplify things.


Agreed. The servers control everything and in RoF the "overpowered" aircraft could always be limited in engaging ways. I'm not worried.


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