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#3858692 - 11/05/13 04:31 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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the dust buster blower design is always loud about 1200 rpm...

in GPU Fans, Dust Busters, Utility/Heat Blower Fans, everything.

The design itself is loud, and doesnt move much more air for the raise in RPM and dBa.

if I had the Chance, I'd Remove the Blower, cut the back of the Shroud off, and Build a Wind Tunnel and Have a 100CFM 120MM Fan blow into it :p

the blower design only moves like 30-40 CFM and has a redonkulously low Static pressure.



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#3858754 - 11/05/13 06:09 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Something needs to be done with all the heat issues we are seeing with modern high-performance cards... I've got an XFX 7970 Ghz Edition card with an aftermarket-design 2-fan cooler and shroud and I wish I'd gone with the dustbuster design. So much heat build-up in my case!

With the side panel of my case on, my card gets to about 90C under load... And that's with 2 intake fans at 1350 RPM a piece and a smaller hard drive intake fan up top. I've got 3 rear fans (A 100mm and two 80mm) and holes at the top for hot air to rise out of.

With the side panel off of my case, the card gets to about 85C max and cools off much much quicker when not under load. Also, the rest of my components stay a lot cooler (CPU, sound card, hard drives) with the side panel off.


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#3858772 - 11/05/13 06:26 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: ArgonV]  
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Originally Posted By: ArgonV
Something needs to be done with all the heat issues we are seeing with modern high-performance cards... I've got an XFX 7970 Ghz Edition card with an aftermarket-design 2-fan cooler and shroud and I wish I'd gone with the dustbuster design. So much heat build-up in my case!

With the side panel of my case on, my card gets to about 90C under load... And that's with 2 intake fans at 1350 RPM a piece and a smaller hard drive intake fan up top. I've got 3 rear fans (A 100mm and two 80mm) and holes at the top for hot air to rise out of.

With the side panel off of my case, the card gets to about 85C max and cools off much much quicker when not under load. Also, the rest of my components stay a lot cooler (CPU, sound card, hard drives) with the side panel off.


I think I Electric tape sealed mine, so the only place the air can go is out the back smile.

Sealed the sides, and inside end, only open place is the vent on the bracket.




TBH I'm Very Surprised we havent seen Vertical Cylindrical Fans yet,

So when You Install the card, you have a Vertically Mounted Cylindrical Fan that Blows Air Evenly Across the Entire Board, Isnt Obstructed by CrossFire/Other Cards and Doesnt Suck Air off the Hot Mainboard.


Last edited by SkateZilla; 11/05/13 06:41 PM.

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#3858785 - 11/05/13 06:47 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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When it gets to the point where all this air-ducting is practically a necessity, custom water-cooling starts to look a lot more practical, albeit no less expensive.

Then again, if you're already spending $400-550 on a graphics card, what's another $100 or so for a full-cover block to keep temps in check?

#3858791 - 11/05/13 06:53 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: NamelessPFG]  
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Originally Posted By: NamelessPFG
When it gets to the point where all this air-ducting is practically a necessity, custom water-cooling starts to look a lot more practical, albeit no less expensive.

Then again, if you're already spending $400-550 on a graphics card, what's another $100 or so for a full-cover block to keep temps in check?


For Me, I'd have to Build A new loop, and replace my H100.

So I'd Have to get the whole kit (Block, Pump, Tubes, Pump, 2 Radiators, Reservoir) that'a another $300 at least for the blocks

Last edited by SkateZilla; 11/05/13 07:01 PM.

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#3858863 - 11/05/13 09:02 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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The problem I see with that method of fan cooling - is in order to get the volume of air you'd need to keep the card cool flowing through, the small fans would have to spin very fast... And thus creating a lot of noise...


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#3858875 - 11/05/13 09:16 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: ArgonV]  
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Originally Posted By: ArgonV
The problem I see with that method of fan cooling - is in order to get the volume of air you'd need to keep the card cool flowing through, the small fans would have to spin very fast... And thus creating a lot of noise...


It's not Multiple Small Fans. It's ONE Tall Cylindrical fan, the Fan Blades are the length of the card. which supplies even flow and pressure.

http://www.orientalmotor.com/technology/articles/cooling-fans-overview.html


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#3858904 - 11/05/13 10:04 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Ah, that makes more sense...


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#3858914 - 11/05/13 10:21 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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#3858920 - 11/05/13 10:32 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Arctic Accelero Xtreme III third-party cooler works on the 290 Series


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#3859564 - 11/07/13 03:54 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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780 Ti is out,
Uses a full GK110 Chip for 2880 CUDA Cores
(something a lot of people swore wasn't possible due to quality of the GK110 yields a year ago)

$700, "stomps everything, Including the Titan."

Though the first 2 reviews I tried to read were nothing more than shallow 290x Bashing attempts.

The Few benches I've seen it's roughly ~10% difference, at 1080p Benches, it's pointless to use 1080p benches, as nearly every top tier card runs above 60Hz, and below 120Hz.

So Single 60Hz Screen either one will work, and you'll need 2 or 3 for 120/144Hz

So for 1080p 60Hz, That extra $150 gets you ~8 more FPS you wont see if you use VSYNC.

780Ti Runs Cooler/Quieter,

Compatible with nVidia ShadowPlay


R9-290X still chews through 4K / 3 Screen Resolutions and beats the 780Ti in most benches, while barely losing in others.

I think the reviewers got "Golden Samples" cuz they have them clocked at 7000MHz Memory (1750MHzx4), Which is alot higher than any 780 or Titan, even 3rd Party Overclocked Boards only went up to 6000MHz.


like I said, $150 more for a Performance difference that you wont see on a 60Hz Screen with VSYNC On.

120/144Hz Screens would require 2 of the either card, and again both can easily do 120/144Hz in XFire/SLI and with VSYNC on, the extra 10-15 FPS wont mean didly.

Only Reason to go with the 780Ti is if you are a benchmarker that needs to hit an absolute top score.

Infact, nVidia Crippled/disabled the double precision floating point on the 780ti, so the Titan still beats it when doing Pro/Workstation workloads.

Why Choose 290X Over 780 Ti?
-Cheaper
-4GB of VRAM (Versus 3GB on 780Ti)

-xDMA Crossfire-
Bridge Interlinking between cards has bandwidth restrictions,
As we move to 4k And Multiple displays for Gaming, this becomes a Bigger issue,
With R9-290X/R9-290 the xDMA removes the bandwidth issue, xDMA also supports Frame Pacing on Multiple Displays/4K Displays

-Upgraded Display Clocks
AMD's R9 Series now Allow 3 Screens to be used Without Display Port, Due to Addition of a 3rd Timing Pipeline from the VPU,
and up to 6 Displays. (3 from VPU Timing Pipes (DVI, DVI,HDMI)), and 3 from DisplayPORT2.0 MST Hubs ($~149)

-TrueAudio and Mantle (Meh, depends on how well they are used).


Why Choose 780Ti?
-Higher (~10%) Benchmark Numbers
-Less Power Consumption/Heat
-CUDA PhysX
-Shadow Play

(*Note, Some MMO's Actually ban users that use Screen recorders, SHADOWPLAY INCLUDED).


Alternate Notes:
AMD is Working on a Embedded Hardware H264 Recorder Like Shadow Play.
AMD's Card is 5-10% Slower in Some benches, and Matches Titan and 780 in other, while still having Cooling/Throttling Issues.

While people can say, 780Ti will be better with 3rd Party Cooling Too,

Fact Remains on the AMD 290s with AfterMarket Cooling, the Card no longer throttles and Stomps both the Titan and 780Ti,

That's not saying anything about Overclocking. Which I've already seen users on the AMD Gaming Boards that Switched out the Coolers and are getting 1.1 GHz and 6.5 Ghz Ram Easily with minimal Voltage adjustments. which their benches stomp 780Ti by over 15%.

The Limiting Factor of the 290x/290 is the Crappy Cooling Design, and the Crappy fan Profile they stuck into the Firmware.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 11/07/13 08:01 PM.

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#3860018 - 11/08/13 04:16 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Toms seems to be the only one to be digging deeper, but:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290-driver-fix,3666.html


I say, Red Mod the Sucker. smile


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#3860031 - 11/08/13 04:35 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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It is rumored the latest AMD beta driver for R9-290s fixes the throttling problem and results in higher practical FPS. Apparently, it is surmised, the throttling was unintentional -- more likely "growing pains" that one gets sometimes when a new GPU is released. Of course, I don't know for sure as I do not own R9.


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#3860032 - 11/08/13 04:39 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Was an issue where the BIOS/Driver controlled Fan Speed by % and Not RPM, w/ a Cheapo Centrifugal Fan Model that has a Huge +/- Variance, 40% RPM can mean a difference of 400-550 RPM.

The Driver Overrides the BIOS and Sets it to a Specific RPM.


If anyone is interested, to AIO Water Block it with a Asetek Designed Loop, you need a Copper Shim.


None of this will be an issue with Aftermarket Coolers... if not I'll get mine and spend the extra money to Waterblock it.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 11/08/13 04:40 PM.

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#3860109 - 11/08/13 06:41 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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The "Red Mod" Drops the 290X Load Temps from 95^C to About 50-55^C.


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#3860217 - 11/08/13 10:50 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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It's astounding AMD can't design a decent fan solution. It's like buying a Ferrari and finding out if you try to make a turn greater than 45 degrees on the steering wheel it snaps off.

The nvidia cards are sports cars, the 290s are muscle cars--cheaper, better performance for the price, but not elegant.

The 780Ti really has a ridiculous price, though. It's obviously only for people that either A) must have the fastest possible, even if it's not really noticeable in most cases or B) hate AMD's drivers. Otherwise they'd price it lower.

With the price cuts, I'm leaning towards a 770 now. Will blow away my 570.




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#3860233 - 11/08/13 11:31 PM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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AMD Just cut CPU and APU Prices.


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#3860250 - 11/09/13 12:04 AM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Unlike GPUs, the CPU improvement train is in low gear now. Intel hasn't made a major stride since the Sandy Bridge, it's just coasting.

My i7-2600k is even older than my 570 but I've no need to replace it, and I'm not even OC'ing it. So many games are no more than dual-threaded it runs at 3.8GHz most of the time and has plenty of performance for almost everything I do.




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#3860274 - 11/09/13 01:07 AM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Quote:
Unlike GPUs, the CPU improvement train is in low gear now. Intel hasn't made a major stride since the Sandy Bridge, it's just coasting...


Back when I was in the Materials Science/Microgravity Science business, we had a microgravity experiment for the Shuttle to come up with a better semi conductor material -- one that could do more ops per second in IC form than silicon. Back in that ancient day, it was believed that silicon ICs would be limited to under 1GHz (actually, the official guess was 500MHz). The fact that we got to about 5GHz in nominally-silicon CPU's is, thus, interesting to me -- just another situation where mankind exceeded expectations (and the Science was wrong on that point -- happens a lot).

On the other hand, I think technology is now about at the limit for CPUs like we currently have. Probably, 10GHz (for a round number) is a ceiling (actually seems lower based on lack of GHz progress). So, they're going for power reduction at the same GHz.

Consequently, for for the last few years, I've expected little improvement in CPU GHz -- rather, I expected improvements in design to lead to more ops per second. I'm guessing that in several years, everyone's CPU will be as good as everyone else's (AMD and Intel will be equal in performance, for example) -- unless there is that "practical" breakthrough that I've not yet read about (of course, there are things being researched -- and one will eventually work -- but when).

Seeing the handwriting, the industry move to multi core started years ago. I imagine there will be dozens of cores at some point. However, that does no good if programmers have no use for dozens of threads. Windows OS, in principle, could make use of over 200 threads. But, would any one notice that in the OS. Meanwhile, the needs of games can probably be met with a dozen or so threads (once programmers learn how to make good use of them).

Interesting to watch how the CPU game plays out over the next few years. I expect AMD to catch Intel (assuming AMD stays in business). GPUs still have a few big improvements left under the hood, I think.

As a practical thing, a top end CPU of today might still be good enough 5 years from now. So, one can buy a really good CPU and expect it to hold its own (no longer obsolete in 2 years).

Prognostications and speculations. But, heck, I've been wrong a couple times -- so, don't bet on it smile


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#3860311 - 11/09/13 03:22 AM Re: AMD R Series GPU Discussion [Re: SkateZilla]  
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SkateZilla  Offline
Skate Zilla Graphics
Veteran

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,632
Virginia Beach, VA
AMD took a kick in the groin when Intel Discontinued Development and Support for Socket 7, and AMD was Forced to Build their own Chipset/Socket (which eventually became SLOT A Athlons) and they used VIA/SiS to build the Chipsets, which caused more issues.

It was a Bumpy road from Slot A to Socket 939, AM2 was Finally a More stable Platform.


HAF922, Corsair RM850, ASRock Fata1ity 990FX Pro,
Modified Corsair H100, AMD FX8350 @ 5.31GHz, 16GB G.SKILL@DDR2133,
2x R7970 Lightnings, +1 HD7950 @ 1.1/6.0GHz, Creative XFi Fata1ity Platinum Champ.,
3x ASUS VS248HP + Hanns�G HZ201HPB + Acer AL2002 (5760x1080+1600x900+1680x1050), Oculus Rift CV
CH Fighterstick, Pro Throt., Pro Pedals, TM Warthog & MFDs, Fanatec CSR Wheel/Shifter, Elite Pedals
Intensity Pro 10-Bit, TrackIR 4 Pro, WD Black 1.5TB, WD Black 640GB, Samsung 850 500GB, My Book 4TB
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