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#3826081 - 08/23/13 07:15 AM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Vadifon]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
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Posts: 916
I-RAN
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hi dear .... what is your samsim version ? also please tell me that you choose f-111 on ashuluk by jamming pod dm / cm or not ?
Last edited by farokh; 08/23/13 07:43 AM.
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#3826122 - 08/23/13 10:02 AM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: farokh]
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Vadifon
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Ukraine
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hi dear .... what is your samsim version ?
also please tell me that you choose f-111 on ashuluk by jamming pod dm / cm or not ?
SAMSim_v926_7 Volhov Jamming free if P>10km it happens in 100% of cases
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#3826134 - 08/23/13 10:35 AM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Vadifon]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
Member
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Posts: 916
I-RAN
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hi dear .... what is your samsim version ?
also please tell me that you choose f-111 on ashuluk by jamming pod dm / cm or not ?
SAMSim_v926_7 Volhov Jamming free if P>10km it happens in 100% of cases i try this... f-111 without jamming i dont see nothing unnormal ! my missile exploded from 90+ meters of the target ! Asuluk training ground.
Practice target:
RM-207M Belka [program-2] simulating F-111 Aardvark
S-75M3 Volkhov
+++++++++++++++++
00:00:00, SNR ON AIR
00:00:06, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------
+++++++++++++++++
00:00:06, SNR ON AIR
00:10, Practice target RM-207M Belka [program-2] simulating F-111 Aardvark launched
00:01:31, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 22km
Target azimuth: 85°
Target elevation: 6°
Target altitude: 2.5km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)
00:01:36, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 22km
Target azimuth: 82°
Target elevation: 6°
Target altitude: 2.5km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)
00:01:42, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 22km
Target azimuth: 77°
Target elevation: 6°
Target altitude: 2.5km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:01:50, Missile exploded on Channel-1
00:02:01, Missile exploded on Channel-3
Practice target RM-207M Belka [program-2] simulating F-111 Aardvark killed by SAM. (miss distance: 94m)
00:02:08, Missile exploded on Channel-2
Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 44sec
you think missiles fired by UPR and K method should kill the target like T/T? ps: of course in RABOT VM method usually i JUST locked azimuth and elevation degree ! not range locker used by me ! and T/T can catch it very smooth PS2 : really i dont get your problem ! would you explain about your problem ?
Last edited by farokh; 08/23/13 10:48 AM.
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#3826163 - 08/23/13 11:52 AM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: farokh]
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Vadifon
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Ukraine
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you think missiles fired by UPR and K method should kill the target like T/T?
ps: of course in RABOT VM method usually i JUST locked azimuth and elevation degree ! not range locker used by me !
and T/T can catch it very smooth
PS2 : really i dont get your problem ! would you explain about your problem ?
The problem is not a miss/hit (is the result of a strange missile trajectory) It's only guidance problem. video later
Last edited by Vadifon; 08/29/13 01:11 PM.
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#3826180 - 08/23/13 12:33 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Vadifon]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
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you think missiles fired by UPR and K method should kill the target like T/T?
ps: of course in RABOT VM method usually i JUST locked azimuth and elevation degree ! not range locker used by me !
and T/T can catch it very smooth
PS2 : really i dont get your problem ! would you explain about your problem ?
The problem is not a miss/hit (is the result of a strange missile trajectory) It's only guidance problem. video later  humm... i see its not the bug at all please read the advance manual completly ! in there wrote about UPR flight path ! usually ... UPR flying to impact zone with 4 degree Further of target that missile and target will meet together at there with UPR and K your missiles doing more maneuver but T/t flying direct to the target ! 
Last edited by farokh; 08/23/13 01:04 PM.
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#3826369 - 08/23/13 06:50 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
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bug number 7
hpasp... LORO mode is the subject
in sa-2E pdf wrote ... we can detect fighter between jamming line by LORO from 30km
but in libya and operation allied forces i cant detect them at all from 20 km or closer
Last edited by farokh; 08/23/13 06:57 PM.
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#3826407 - 08/23/13 07:38 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: farokh]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
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Posts: 2,011
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bug number 7
hpasp... LORO mode is the subject
in sa-2E pdf wrote ... we can detect fighter between jamming line by LORO from 30km
but in libya and operation allied forces i cant detect them at all from 20 km or closer Jamming pod detected...: The burn through range is depending on the target aspect (heading in relation to the radar) and the radar beam type:
Against fighter-sized targets:
using wide-beam mode: 5 ~ 10km
using narrow beam - LORO mode: 10 ~ 20km
Against bomber-sized targets..... .... 
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#3826454 - 08/23/13 09:20 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
Member
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Posts: 916
I-RAN
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bug number 7
hpasp... LORO mode is the subject
in sa-2E pdf wrote ... we can detect fighter between jamming line by LORO from 30km
but in libya and operation allied forces i cant detect them at all from 20 km or closer Jamming pod detected...: The burn through range is depending on the target aspect (heading in relation to the radar) and the radar beam type:
Against fighter-sized targets:
using wide-beam mode: 5 ~ 10km
using narrow beam - LORO mode: 10 ~ 20km
Against bomber-sized targets..... .... PS:... i download latest version of samsim... i try hit the A-4 in ashuluk target ! usually A-4 alt was around 400 till 700 ... but right now in this version in after action report wrote ALT = 4 km ! please test it and put your result in here killed by rabot-vm based on T/T Asuluk training ground.
Practice target:
LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk
S-75M3 Volkhov
00:00, Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk launched
+++++++++++++++++
00:00:16, SNR ON AIR
00:02:26, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 31km
Target azimuth: 63°
Target elevation: 7°
Target altitude: 4.1km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:02:51, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 31km
Target azimuth: 60°
Target elevation: 8°
Target altitude: 4.4km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:02:56, Missile exploded on Channel-3
Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 36m)
00:03:10, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 16sec
Last edited by farokh; 08/23/13 09:22 PM.
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#3826456 - 08/23/13 09:26 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: farokh]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
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PS:... i download latest version of samsim... i try hit the A-4 in ashuluk target !
usually A-4 alt was around 400 till 700 ... but right now in this version in after action report wrote
ALT = 4 km !
please test it and put your result in here
This is an old bug, that reappeared again, 'caused by "<5 km" mode... Old code used, probably...
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#3828810 - 08/29/13 01:09 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: farokh]
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Vadifon
Junior Member
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Junior Member
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Posts: 9
Ukraine
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humm... i see
its not the bug at all
please read the advance manual completly ! Of course reading and many more in Russian 1) Why only 4 degree? 6 or 7 degrees would be more correct. [see attach] in there wrote about UPR flight path ! usually ... UPR flying to impact zone with 4 degree Further of target that missile and target will meet together at there with UPR and K your missiles doing more maneuver but T/t flying direct to the target ! I think the current version has an incorrect missile flight path when impact point further than 4 degrees. Therefore TT more effective than UPR in the case when P > 15-20 km. [at high-speed V/H=const target] ...should be conversely. Incorrect flight path - because missile overstay at the edge of "+/-4° gate" until impact point will not be in the "+/-4° gate" [see attach]
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#3832096 - 09/05/13 12:42 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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Of course reading and many more in Russian 1) Why only 4 degree? 6 or 7 degrees would be more correct. [see attach] Since now I don't find an exact explanation about that, just some thoughts about it: 1. The UPR method is a half-lead method, so no big lead is needed (compare with SA-5). 2. The missile is unguided right after launch, it must "hit" strobes, thus some oscilations during this initiation stage are in place (as it is relatively close), also launchers are "leading" too, depending of antena rotation speed, so this could be also a reason for such difference between lead angle and RPK diagram size.... 3. Missiles aerodinamic matters too... Anyway, lead angle is more than a half of RPK diagram (5-7.5 degrees), so no big difference IMHO...
Last edited by piston79; 09/05/13 01:24 PM.
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#3832616 - 09/06/13 05:55 AM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Vadifon]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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...remained unconvinced  If you found the reason, please, be so kind to share it with the community... I spoked with an ex-chief enginier of a AirDefence brigade and an officer, that served on Volkhov....
Last edited by piston79; 09/06/13 05:56 AM.
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#3834402 - 09/09/13 09:38 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Vadifon
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Ukraine
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+/-8°=16°
SAM Sim: +/-4°=8°
Last edited by Vadifon; 09/09/13 09:42 PM.
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#3837279 - 09/15/13 05:47 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Vadifon]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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...remained unconvinced This is exactly why I require ex Fire Control Officers to help creating SAMSIM. They were there and done that... Live missile is flying to kill RS2US target at Ustka... 
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#3837299 - 09/15/13 06:44 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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Since now I don't find an exact explanation about that, just some thoughts about it:
1. The UPR method is a half-lead method, so no big lead is needed (compare with SA-5).
2. The missile is unguided right after launch, it must "hit" strobes, thus some oscilations during this initiation stage are in place (as it is relatively close), also launchers are "leading" too, depending of antena rotation speed, so this could be also a reason for such difference between lead angle and RPK diagram size....
3. Missiles aerodinamic matters too...
Anyway, lead angle is more than a half of RPK diagram (5-7.5 degrees), so no big difference IMHO...
4. When bigger lead angle is needed, bigger overload capacity of the missiles is needed too.... ----------------------------- Looks like K method on P=0... 
Last edited by piston79; 09/15/13 06:45 PM.
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#3851582 - 10/18/13 08:29 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
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little bug in ashuluk ! i hunt it under 300 meters!!! Asuluk training ground.
Practice target:
RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado
S-200VE Vega-E
00:44, Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado launched
+++++++++++++++++
00:00:52, SNR ON AIR
00:01:09, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 48km
Target azimuth: 57°
Target elevation: 0°
Target angular speed: 419m/s (1.4 Mach)
Target altitude: 251m
RPC mode: FKM - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 35.6dB
00:01:14, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 45km
Target azimuth: 57°
Target elevation: 0°
Target angular speed: 492m/s (1.7 Mach)
Target altitude: 186m
RPC mode: FKM - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 35.9dB
00:01:40, Missile exploded
Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 12m)
00:01:44, Missile exploded
Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 9m)
Total, SNR On Air Time: 54sec
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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