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#3834387 - 09/09/13 09:18 PM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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I would guess that he is just trying to put over his enthusiasm about working with Nick Grey and the Fighter Collection.A lot of people don't seem to realise what a big deal that is, thats as good as it gets regarding access to the real aircraft.
Appealing to flight sim enthusiasts rather than just gamers obviously carries a risk, but TFC are not going to allow any old **** to be sold with their name on it.
A WW2 flight sim, with DCS fidelity and backed by TFC is again, as good as it gets.

#3834388 - 09/09/13 09:19 PM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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The timing of the kickstarter just seems very premature to me, we have been told they already have some backing, so why not wait until they have more actual product to show before launching the kickstarter?

To be honest i think i know why it was timed this way and it has nothing to do with the start of the war, but i would probably get into trouble here for saying it.

#3834401 - 09/09/13 09:38 PM Re: New update and video [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
The timing of the kickstarter just seems very premature to me, we have been told they already have some backing, so why not wait until they have more actual product to show before launching the kickstarter?

To be honest i think i know why it was timed this way and it has nothing to do with the start of the war, but i would probably get into trouble here for saying it.


Totaly agree. Although, luthier's excuse was that if they had started the kickstarter later, they would finish the stretch goals, if any, later too. The thing is that without proper preparation you don't have to worry about stretch goals, cause you won't reach them.

#3834406 - 09/09/13 09:42 PM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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If you're only backing to get the FW190D, I think there is a good chance that it will be available as a separate DCS module long before Ilya's project is finished.

However, if you want a true WWII environment and a couple of additional flyable aircraft to accompany your Long Nose, backing Ilya is the right thing to do. And if you back him with $30, you can choose either the P-51D or the FW190D as a reward. $40 gets you both, plus whatever else Ilya is able to add as flyable beyond the three core 'free to play.'

I see it like this: if Ilya doesn't get the support to at least start making a WWII DCS World then we have no right to moan and complain about the DCS modules being only flyable in modern theaters. Pledge, and your money doesn't leave your pocket unless Ilya makes his $100,000 target next month. If he does make the target, you get to be part of something that could pan out to be really cool, and for just the cost of any one DCS module or FSX addon.


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#3834409 - 09/09/13 09:47 PM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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OEM screenshots & videos of Eu release..So I fly the original game because I am a off-liner and the game's AI was broken after the last good patch, game version 1.0.13954
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#3834410 - 09/09/13 09:48 PM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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They needed WIP pics of the new aircraft.

With AFM and systems modeling being so complex 3D and artwork is supposed to be the quickest to do now.


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#3834413 - 09/09/13 09:51 PM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Seems to be following the same course as the Elite Dangerous Kickstarter - Initially during the first week was the laying down of the Broad scope of the project, with the real meat (Pics an vids) following later as the kickestarter moves on from the initial phase.

Nate

#3834481 - 09/10/13 12:01 AM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Made my pledge. Luv the approach these guys are taking, especially the networking with The Fighter Collection. Smart move.

Admittedly I was very disappointed with COD, but from all comments I've read from Oleg and Ilya they too were bitterly ashamed of how it turned out. Their new approach, if successful, will put them in the driving seat. I'm willing to support them and see where it takes us.


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#3834639 - 09/10/13 09:20 AM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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WW2 reach 50% (51.354$).

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1867547&postcount=1131
Quote:
I'm starting to think we might need to shuffle things about a little bit.

We'll try to change the immediate next stretch goal, and make it a flyable B-17 and British airfields. Move all other stretch goal aircraft one tier up.

We'll talk this over and have a decision for you within a day or two.

Also going to work on adding some more attractive backer rewards.

Oh trust me, I'm very familiar with southern England smile

--------

RRG does not currently have a dedicated AI programmer.

We could theoretically look into hiring one for this project, which would probably give us tons and tons of cool stuff over the course of the project, but I really don't know how to budget for that. We're already pretty far out there for a stretch goal. I'm kind of cautious about adding too many tiers or too many options. If I add, for example, and intermediate "improved AI" stretch goal, all as a part of all additional stretch goals, that might turn off some other people, and make it seem like the aircraft they really want are too far away.

ED has programmers too, of course. We however do not have a current plan for AI improvement.

-----------------

No clue at this point.

---------------

This new video is basically introduction part 2. Nick Grey is a hugely important part of this project, but it felt like putting him in the initial video made everything way too long.

It's also not about passion but about our relationship with TFC. This has immediate, direct, and unique impact on the product. We have access to the actual aircraft and the actual pilot. That's not sentimentality or small talk at all. These are the precise reasons why DCS: P-51 is the best prop simulation available today.

I have another talk video all put together, which I foolishly planned to release as video 3, but I realized the error of my ways while uploading video 2 this morning. Video 3 will be a detailed look at EDGE. Video 4 will be a detailed overview of aircraft modeling in DCS. Video 5 will be a video QnA, and then video 6 will probably be the thing I planned for Video 3.

I also have to point out that it's all just me. I write the scripts, I direct, I shoot, I edit, I release, I discuss. I don't have a marketing staff, anything like that. I'm learning as I go. Hopefully I can do enough to reach at least one stretch goal in the next 30 days. Please don't let the fact that I'm not a marketing professional or a filmmaker influence your opinion of myself as a game developer!

Last edited by Silver_Dragon; 09/10/13 09:21 AM.

More News to the Front
#3834668 - 09/10/13 11:10 AM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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This looks like typical Kickstarter behaviour. There is an initial burst of pledging which then plateaus out to very little and then there is a rush at the end. It's typical that most of the pledging happens just near the end.

At least that's the typical behaviour for just meeting the Kickstarter goals. If they make the basic goal relatively early and start hitting stretch goals, pledging tends to accelerate as the value for money typically (not always) increases.

Not getting to stretch goals is a sign that the Kickstarter isn't that popular, but often has the advantage that the base product gets delivered quicker (many a Kickstarter has been greatly delayed because of all the stretch goals they didn't really anticipate). So in some ways it's a good thing that this only makes the basic goal. The other stuff will probably still come, you'll just have to pay for it via the traditional routes.

For my part, with the likes of Oleg and Luthier, I'm not touching this with a bargepole. The past reputation for timely and effective delivery of a product is simply not there and must be the main reason for the lackluster pledging. If they don't directly address this in some way, they'll get what they deserve for poor PR management.

#3834692 - 09/10/13 11:51 AM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Never heard of il2 then? They made that, probably the most successful CFS of the last decade.

Last edited by JG52Uther; 09/10/13 11:51 AM.
#3834724 - 09/10/13 01:23 PM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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I was along for the IL2 ride pretty much from the start. Yes, it was great, for its time and in comparison to the competition. I also remember the long and troubled gestation of Pacific Fighters and the countless bugs, and fixes that broke more things, etc. Also, by your logic, if IL2 was such a sterling success, then why was CloD such a mess? Surely it should have been better due to their past experience with IL2. I don't underestimate their technical competence (CloD is better than IL2 is so many ways). It's their management of the project that I question (keeping to the sated timeline, declaring only realistic deliverables, QA checking, etc.)

The saving grace here is ED who may be able to keep a tight rein on the production and QA. But there's a saying, "once bitten, twice shy" and people are quite prone to that; my suspicion is that the slow burn of the Kickstarter is directly (completely?) due to the "CloD effect". That's unfortunate. Nothing they can do to change the past. So what they should sensibly do is try to manage expectations in light of the past. Defuse the skepticism. Explain. Communicate. But so far, nada and a fairly third rate Kickstarter presentation. I suppose it's early days...and I'm quite happy to eat my words in the long run.

#3834740 - 09/10/13 01:51 PM Re: New update and video [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Yes, lets hope they get more exciting. TBH I don't think nearly 55k in under a week is too bad, considering the subject matter.Theres a lot mor War Thunder type gaamers around than flight simmers.
For $40 for a DCS level WW2 sim its a no brainer for me, as I like flight sims, its one of my main hobbies, and I support all of them, from RoF, to CoD, BoS, and DCS.
The more the merrier, choice is a wonderful thing.

#3834823 - 09/10/13 04:22 PM Re: New update and video [Re: Alexi_Alx_Anova]  
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Originally Posted By: Alexi_Alx_Anova
I was along for the IL2 ride pretty much from the start. Yes, it was great, for its time and in comparison to the competition. I also remember the long and troubled gestation of Pacific Fighters and the countless bugs, and fixes that broke more things, etc. Also, by your logic, if IL2 was such a sterling success, then why was CloD such a mess? Surely it should have been better due to their past experience with IL2. I don't underestimate their technical competence (CloD is better than IL2 is so many ways). It's their management of the project that I question (keeping to the sated timeline, declaring only realistic deliverables, QA checking, etc.)

The saving grace here is ED who may be able to keep a tight rein on the production and QA. But there's a saying, "once bitten, twice shy" and people are quite prone to that; my suspicion is that the slow burn of the Kickstarter is directly (completely?) due to the "CloD effect". That's unfortunate. Nothing they can do to change the past. So what they should sensibly do is try to manage expectations in light of the past. Defuse the skepticism. Explain. Communicate. But so far, nada and a fairly third rate Kickstarter presentation. I suppose it's early days...and I'm quite happy to eat my words in the long run.


+1

Good post.


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#3835026 - 09/10/13 10:35 PM Re: DCS WWII: Europe 1944 Kickstarter [Re: SkateZilla]  
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I don't doubt Ilya's technical skills, either. He was the one, after all, who taught me how to use 3DS max and guided me through making the He 162 cockpit for IL2 (who knows how many e-mails I sent him!) However, his management of Pacific Fighters and CLoD left a lot to be desired. I don't hate the guy and wish him the best with this DCS project, but he's gotta get a more coherent plan together than what he's shown so far.

#3835053 - 09/10/13 11:43 PM Re: DCS WWII: Europe 1944 Kickstarter [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Regarding project management and budgetary planning:

One of the old rules of thumb (that I always used). When budgeting for a unique project, figure the costs of everything you need to do -- don't leave anything out or make any optimistic suppositions. Get a total cost.

Then, if you are good, the true cost will be about 30 percent greater. Add that to your total. Never seen it to fail to come out that way.

Of course, if you are not good and many managers aren't, costs can easily double or triple the original estimate for a project breaking new creative ground.

So, hope that's all figured into the budget. Anyhow, as I noted, I'm in for $100.


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#3835054 - 09/10/13 11:43 PM Re: DCS WWII: Europe 1944 Kickstarter [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Reading through some of these comments, quite frankly, makes me sick. People talk about all the time and money they spent with IL2 (pretty small time per money investment, probably ever in flight sim history) yet say they won't back a project because of what "they believe" is a management problem?

Holy crap.. I spend more in a couple hours in the pub that it costs to support this entire venture, and you won't do it because of some speculation? It's as if you think the developers the only decision makers. The bottom line is these folks produced the most successful and longest lasting combat flight sim of all time.

Then I see people saying patches etc., to games produced bugs? Really? Name a single game in history that has released a patch that didn't break something else? I don't think anyone needs to keep a tight rein on quality control. If any of you ever looked under the hood of Cliffs, and not just the surface of it, you'll find so many more details, features, an absolute labor of love, that isn't duplicated ANYWHERE in any flight sim out there.

People say they were robbed/screwed over with Cliffs of Dover? Hell I robbed them. I have almost 2000 hours in the game and still, to this day, continue to see new things, new details, that I never noticed before. Modded Clod is perfectly flyable on a medium system btw.

So anyone that continually bashes on Ilya or Oleg really needs a reality check. They've already long proved themselves in the business. It's simply amazing how easily people forget just how big IL2 became because of the game it provided it's players. There was modding communities everywhere. People making online wars (because the game allowed them to) a plethora of other features etc., all because of the sandbox that was IL2.

Cliffs of Dover is no different. It's biggest problem is it was released unfinished. And unfinished obviously means it's going to have problems out the wazoo. But it's as if all you people think the people at MG were the decision makers on it's release date. People complain about all the development dollars spent, but then don't realize there isn't a single game out there that can do what Cliffs can with it's game engine. You boast about ROF/BOS and don't even realize you're going to have the most sterile ground war you've ever seen, all in a theater of war almost entirely about the ground war in the 1st place.

Go ahead and fire up your other collection of sims and place 1000's of objects in a mission and see what happens. Go ahead and place 1000 AI planes in a mission and see what happens. Cliffs and IL2 can at least run that mission. The other games crash at far less objects or AI. It's stuff like that that determines a good game engine. I guess, just like a good book, I don't judge it by it's cover, but what is inside of it. It's an utter shame that Clod was released how it was, and even worse shame, they couldn't even work on it after it's release (99% of the time was on their BoS sequel) and even far worse of a shame that the IL2 game is going to a far more inferior game engine all the way around. And had Clod been to the state of modded Clod out of the gate, we'd already be far into IL2BoS by now. One day this little niche market is going to die, and it's because of some of the people that post in this thread.

And then people talk about the "plan for this venture"? Are you serious? Here's a map, on a game engine that is getting upgraded (EDGE), and here's all the planes for that map. Of course there's going to be objects for mission builders, going to be MP (dedicated server is supposed to come for EDGE), and bam, you have a flight sim in a certain theater of war. How much more of a plan is needed? It's about as logical of one as you can imagine. Ilya's / Oleg's team are building the 3d stuff, and possibly helping with programming of other things as need be, while Eagle Dynamics is working on their game engine. I'm sure people have seen a cockpit or 2 from Clod? It's pretty much the best cockpit model ever made in a flight sim. I think they'll be able to model just fine.

I'm at a complete loss from some people. It's as if some of you think Ilya killed your dog or something. For old men, I'd be ashamed. Support your hobby and anyone that tries to make something in it. Jesus.

#3835063 - 09/10/13 11:51 PM Re: DCS WWII: Europe 1944 Kickstarter [Re: ATAG_Bliss]  
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ATAG_Bliss,

Thanks, +1 cheers


Taxes are my part time profession, flying is my passion.
#3835072 - 09/11/13 12:04 AM Re: DCS WWII: Europe 1944 Kickstarter [Re: SkateZilla]  
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I do find it amusing Bliss that your upset about people finding fault in CLOD, Luthier and Oleg but in the same post you think its fine to slag off BOS, a sim not even released yet.

So its fine to bash ROF, Jason and BOS but not ok to bash CLOD, Luthier or DSC44?

Is BOS not part of the same hobby you say we should support?

You dont think your being ever so slightly hypocritical?

Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 09/11/13 12:14 AM.
#3835074 - 09/11/13 12:16 AM Re: DCS WWII: Europe 1944 Kickstarter [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
I do find it amusing Bliss that your upset about people finding fault in CLOD, Luthier and Oleg but in the same post you think its fine to slag off BOS, a sim not even released yet.

Is BOS not part of the same hobby you say we should support?

You dont think your being ever so slightly hypocritical?


Not really. All I'm doing is stating the facts. I've long pre-ordered the premium version of BoS quite a while ago. Again, I support flight sims. But I'll also give my reasons for losing my continued support of any flight sim. And what I spoke of about ROF, is exactly why after several hundreds of dollars and several years of play, I quit playing it. They never fixed the core issues with it.

But when 4 years worth of ROF + the prior 5 years before it's release couldn't make the Digital Nature game engine more capable with it's object limitations, it's master browser limitations, it's MP limitations etc., what leads you to believe they are going to be able to make a new WWII flight sim and fix the game engine at the same time in a little over a year? I again, would love to be proved wrong, and very gladly hope so. But again, they are making a flight sim, and it does look very good. And again, I bought it.

So when are you hopping in the KS for DCS WWII? Or are you the hypocrite?

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