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#3704963 - 12/23/12 08:34 AM Repaired airplane not fully repaired?  
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Frederf Offline
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Got hit, had fire, pulled fire handle, emptied an extinguisher bottle in and fire's out. Land and taxi back.

Now the problem is that repairing doesn't allow the engine to be restarted, even with handle back in and extinguisher switch centered. Also my T/O Trim Reset button's associated light doesn't light up any more despite the stick being returned by holding the button.

Anyone else?

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#3705358 - 12/24/12 02:37 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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EinsteinEP Offline
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When you say that repairing doesn't "allow" the engine to be restarted, what's the specific failure? Either engine or just one? When the APU starts, does it settle at 100% RPM, nominal EGT? Repeatable? Track?

Pressing and holding the takeoff trim button will center the control stick, but if there was any yaw trim at all via the SAS yaw trim knob, the TO Trim light will never illuminate. After pressing and holding the button (and being sure that the stick trim is centered), give the yaw trim knob a tweak either direction and see if that does the trick.


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#3705389 - 12/24/12 04:03 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Frederf Offline
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RPM increases normally in start cycle but no light-off. It seems like no fuel is getting to the engine. It was just the engine that suffered the fire/extinguisher/repair. APU and righty start and stop without a hitch.

I'll see if I can set up a trigger for an engine fire in the ME so I can repeat it more reliably.

It might have been the yaw knob. Clicking the knob is a shortcut to re centering it perfectly. I swear I've had this problem when I've never touched the yaw bias knob though.

====

Recreated a situation of right engine fire. Pulled handle, dispensed extinguisher, landed, centered extinguisher, centered handle, repaired.

Right engine was unable to start normally. With ignitor cbs pulled was about 40C EGT. Pushed in it got to about 250C-270C climbing and then failed down to 40C again. I managed once to reignite right using override fuel, max power on left engine for crossbleed, and gentle throttle up. Despite this the engines were clearly very different in profile even after returning their controls to normal.

I didn't compare but I think the normal fuel flow spike at start is more than the tiny amount I was getting. It wasn't zero.

Anyway, feel free to take control after fullstop and see if you can get good ol' #2 going again. Maybe some voodoo ritual depending on the order of fire handle in, extinguisher center, repair will do it.

Last edited by Frederf; 12/24/12 05:03 AM.
#3705404 - 12/24/12 04:34 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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EinsteinEP Offline
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I've heard of folks having issues getting a previously damaged engine to restart - never experienced it myself, so I can't say I know whether it's a genuine bug or if there's some other switch out of kilter. If you can reproduce, a track would be golden.


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#3705411 - 12/24/12 04:54 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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BeachAV8R Offline
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In the real world..the first thing we'd say is de-power the airplane completely (no AC or DC power).. Things seem to magically fix themselves when you remove power (all the fail open or closed valves sort of reset to their "normal" settings..)

I have no idea if that would really help in DCS sims, but it is surprisingly effective in the real world.. thumbsup

BeachAV8R



#3705416 - 12/24/12 05:04 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Frederf Offline
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Here's the track. I'll try going full cold/dark before starting. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17923081/EngineOutLong.trk

#3705454 - 12/24/12 09:49 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Dachs Offline
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I just had the exact same problem yesterday. I thought it might be because I didn't reset the firehandle and extinguisher before doing the repairing, but it's not something I have checked.
When did you reset the fire handles, before or after repair?


Fortes Fortuna Juvat
#3705472 - 12/24/12 10:40 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Frederf Offline
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Before. You can download the track and do whatever process yourself to try different things. I hope the fidelity is enough that it will land you with a burned engine every time.

#3706178 - 12/25/12 02:58 PM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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eno75 Offline
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Had this issue on a number of occasions. Left engine starts fine- right doesn't... no matter what. I thought I'd read elsewhere that it was a known bug. I've certainly heard guys on the server complain about it enough to know that it shouldn't be that way but I'm not sure what kind of pre-conditions need to exist for it to happen. Typically if memory serves it happens after having that engine fail or get damaged before trying to get it fixed. I'm not sure it's ever happened while getting something ELSE repaired. Could be wrong.

I remember one of the fixes suggested to me (don't remember if it worked) was to leave the "motor" setting on as it was supposed to eventually cause the engine to catch fire at which point you could extinguish it and go through a second repair cycle. I think that was it... It's worth trying and though I've tried it before it was so long ago I don't recall if it worked or not? Sorry.

Or... get a new airplane which is- unfortunately- not always a fantastic alternative.

#3706374 - 12/25/12 08:45 PM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Frederf Offline
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I'll give the second engine fire trick a try. Thanks.

#3707016 - 12/27/12 04:03 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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EinsteinEP Offline
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Interesting track, 'derf.

Engine RPM picks up, so there's bleed air to the engine and the air turbine is working - in fact, the system gets the engine to 25% RPM, which should be more than enough for light-off and self-start.
Engine EGT picks up, too, so there *IS* fuel and the ignitors are working.
There's just some hangup at 30% RPM.

I tried to restart this several different ways, including complete shut down (no running APU during repair), manual start, etc., but that engine has some sort of hang up at 30%.

Smells like a bug to me.


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#3707039 - 12/27/12 05:18 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Frederf Offline
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If you stick with the track long enough I do get it started with some voodoo ritual but it's not a healthy run. Maybe ATS valving? What's the normal fuel flow for start?

#3708648 - 12/30/12 05:58 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Football valve is sticking!!!

Just kidding.

Either a bug...or engine fire damaged the engine beyond repair. This is a simulation, but in RL an engine fire IFE would require at least a day to troubleshoot and repair...maybe it's simulating like it should be. Nobody's going to repair an engine within a few minutes after the Fire Pull Handles and Fire Ext has been used. Weird that you can get EGT, but a hung start.

Eno, regarding your tip to motor the engines to cause another fire. Motoring the engines doesn't introduce fuel or spark into the engines unless you move the throttles up to idle. Motoring is generally used to cool the engines because all it does (with throttles in cutoff) is spin the fans with bleed air from the APU. It's also used to put out (blow out) an engine fire after you cut fuel to it, or cool the engine after an overtemp.


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#3708651 - 12/30/12 06:21 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Frederf Offline
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The repair function will sew on a new wing, move the gun back to the nose of the plane, and reattach the landing gear. It would be surprising if these major items were considered acceptable repairs while an engine was not. If the engine issue is only with the right and not the left then divergence from developer intention (bug) is the only logical conclusion.

#3708664 - 12/30/12 06:41 AM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Fair enough. smile


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#3771198 - 04/21/13 08:14 PM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Goblin Offline
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Is there any word on this? Is it a bug or am I missing something?

#3827542 - 08/26/13 05:23 PM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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eno75 Offline
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My solution has been to keep threats on the left hand side.

#3827676 - 08/26/13 10:56 PM Re: Repaired airplane not fully repaired? [Re: Frederf]  
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Ha!


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