Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
#3826994 - 08/25/13 05:07 AM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,974
Master Offline
meh
Master  Offline
meh
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,974
NW Alabama, USA
OR is probably a PITA to implement. The 1080p unit even more so as it requires two separate renders of the same scene from different perspectives at the same time. Thats going to hurt your FPS.


And we as its creators don't feel ready to hear your annoyed jabber about it.
-IL-2 BoS Dev Team

http://www.alt-games-warbirds.com

Unofficial SimHQ Discord

Starcitizen Referal code: STAR-MKC2-CG4K
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/enlist?referral=STAR-MKC2-CG4K
#3827003 - 08/25/13 06:00 AM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 786
NattyIced Offline
Member
NattyIced  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 786
Is it two separate renders, or one render of a higher resolution (like the images split amongst 2 to 3 screens) that is then broken up by the OR software and sent to the device?

If it was two separate renders, every other frame would be rendered in each eye which just wouldn't work.

But honestly, grinding away on constantly inquiring into the OR implementation time and again makes little sense until a consumer version is literally on the horizon and has the proper software to be developed for.

Last edited by NattyIced; 08/25/13 06:03 AM.
#3827004 - 08/25/13 06:15 AM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,674
EinsteinEP Offline
Just a Noob
EinsteinEP  Offline
Just a Noob
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,674
Tucson, AZ
Let's continue to keep the cool heads, folks. I really like the way this community has maintained an overall respectful atmosphere while still discussing differences of opinion. Let's not blow it.


Shoot to Kill.
Play to Have Fun.
#3827012 - 08/25/13 07:04 AM Re: News... [Re: NattyIced]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
Chivas Offline
Senior Member
Chivas  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: NattyIced
Is it two separate renders, or one render of a higher resolution (like the images split amongst 2 to 3 screens) that is then broken up by the OR software and sent to the device?

If it was two separate renders, every other frame would be rendered in each eye which just wouldn't work.

But honestly, grinding away on constantly inquiring into the OR implementation time and again makes little sense until a consumer version is literally on the horizon and has the proper software to be developed for.


It makes every sense for the OR developer to hear from game developers how they can support each other. Otherwise they wouldn't bother sending out the SDK and OR developers kits. Loft is very interested in the OR and implemented the developers kit in BOS in less than three weeks. I'm sure Loft might have suggestions that could help the OR developer.

Grinding away? I asked if the OR was going to be implemented in BOS once in the IL-2 forums, and once in the SimHQ forums, the rest of my posts were discussions with other forum members the merits of the OR, not pestering the developer on whether or not it should be implemented.


Intel core I7 4790K @ 4.4
Asus Maximus Hero VII Motherboard
16 gigs DDR3 2133
EVGA GTX980Ti
Oculus Rift
LG 37" LCD
BLack Mamba III Joystick
Cougar Throttle/X55 Throttle/Saitek Levers
Saitek Pro Rudder pedals
Voice Activation Controls
#3827013 - 08/25/13 07:28 AM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 786
NattyIced Offline
Member
NattyIced  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 786
We know they have implemented the OR dev kit to it's fullest, as that's all they have access to. So this:

I know the OR still needs a lot of work, but do you think the development crew will be able to fully implement the OR in BOS

is sort of pushing the matter into territory that doesn't even exist since what is available is fully implemented from what I've read. The HD version is next in line, but can't be fully implemented without it being available to implement since it, and the rest of the product, is still tech demo stage.

#3827014 - 08/25/13 07:30 AM Re: News... [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
Chivas Offline
Senior Member
Chivas  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Its seems clear though Chivas, that they have already implemented OR in BOS, as Jason said a new version of OR just needs tweaking, and they cant do that until they get more hands on time with the HD version.

Implementing OR into software from what ive seen does not need major time or work, i wouldn't worry about it, it will happen.

I know your very excited about OR, iam too. smile

I dont think you shouldn't of asked your question and i dont think you were being disrespectful either, just as i didn't see Jason comment as a personal attack, i just think Jason is a bit knackered from a week of travelling and working at Gamecom (and the last 9 months too prob) and was a little short of patience.



I was well aware three weeks ago that Loft was going to try to implement the OR in BOS. We knew from members at Gamescom that Loft was able to deliver in quite a short period of time, and users were impressed with BOS, and the OR. We didn't know how the developer felt about its implementation. It was simple question on how the implementation went, and if they were able to try the HD prototype. Not sure why it got such a weird reaction, but I can guess.


Intel core I7 4790K @ 4.4
Asus Maximus Hero VII Motherboard
16 gigs DDR3 2133
EVGA GTX980Ti
Oculus Rift
LG 37" LCD
BLack Mamba III Joystick
Cougar Throttle/X55 Throttle/Saitek Levers
Saitek Pro Rudder pedals
Voice Activation Controls
#3827017 - 08/25/13 08:05 AM Re: News... [Re: NattyIced]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
Chivas Offline
Senior Member
Chivas  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: NattyIced
We know they have implemented the OR dev kit to it's fullest, as that's all they have access to. So this:

I know the OR still needs a lot of work, but do you think the development crew will be able to fully implement the OR in BOS

is sort of pushing the matter into territory that doesn't even exist since what is available is fully implemented from what I've read. The HD version is next in line, but can't be fully implemented without it being available to implement since it, and the rest of the product, is still tech demo stage.



Timeline...reading it again I can see where Jason might have misconstrued what I was saying.

Chivas said...Most people who have flown BOS with the Oculus Rift seem impressed. Hopefully Jason got his hands on the HD prototype at the show for a quick test.


Jasons said...They gave us an HD unit to test for a couple hours, but it did not work with our implantation. Something needed to be tweaked and we did not have time, but an HD prototype unit does exist. They did give us a new dev kit unit for free though. So there will be two in Moscow office.

Jasons comment about the HD unit "it did not work with our implantation. Something needed to be tweaked and we did not have time" This made me wonder what Jason's thoughts were on implementing the consumer version, did Loft see any issues? so I asked...I see now I should have said consumer version instead of fully, but I thought that was obvious.


Chivas said...I know the OR still needs a lot of work, but do you think the development crew will be able to fully implement the OR in BOS. I believe the OR, or something very much like it, will be revolutionary in so many tasks, and in particular, flight sims. Although very low latency headtracking and a resolution that will allow spotting aircraft at a distance will be critical for combat flight sims.


Jason said...Don't be dense Chivas. We've already implemented the dev kit as we have shown at Gamescom. When they send us a permanent HD version we'll implement it too. The ball is now in Oculus's corner. We've done our pat so far. Back to focusing on more important issues at hand.

I was well aware that the developers kit was implemented. I know users liked it, I wondered what Loft thought about its implementation, and possible issues that would need to be addressed with the consumer version.


Intel core I7 4790K @ 4.4
Asus Maximus Hero VII Motherboard
16 gigs DDR3 2133
EVGA GTX980Ti
Oculus Rift
LG 37" LCD
BLack Mamba III Joystick
Cougar Throttle/X55 Throttle/Saitek Levers
Saitek Pro Rudder pedals
Voice Activation Controls
#3827023 - 08/25/13 08:53 AM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 753
Alexi_Alx_Anova Offline
Member
Alexi_Alx_Anova  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 753
Frome/Bath UK
I viewed Jason's comment as friendly banter. You know, like there would have been in the dispersal hut. How times have changed.

#3827029 - 08/25/13 09:54 AM Re: News... [Re: Alexi_Alx_Anova]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,818
BKHZ_Furbs Offline
Senior Member
BKHZ_Furbs  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,818
Originally Posted By: Alexi_Alx_Anova
I viewed Jason's comment as friendly banter. You know, like there would have been in the dispersal hut. How times have changed.


That's how i saw it. no need for knickers to get twisted. smile

#3827073 - 08/25/13 02:36 PM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,982
bisher Online content
I'll be your Huckleberry
bisher  Online Content
I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,982
Manitoba, Canada
Indeed, but I have seen this 'friendly banter' several times. It's getting in the way of me anticipating this sim. This is the real danger, nothing to do with knickers. Serious gaming stuff.



#3827165 - 08/25/13 08:15 PM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,818
BKHZ_Furbs Offline
Senior Member
BKHZ_Furbs  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,818
Your such a fibber Bish, i heard from my mate, who knows this guy, who once spoke to someone, who once went on holiday in Canada, who said this Bish guy doesn't even play flight sims.

He said you like games with elves, dragons and sometimes fairies.

Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 08/26/13 10:16 AM.
#3827390 - 08/26/13 12:32 PM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 97
SYN_Jedders Offline
Junior Member
SYN_Jedders  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 97
Are the fairies wearing knickers?.....Im lost here....

#3828152 - 08/27/13 11:37 PM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
Bearcat99 Offline
Senior Member
Bearcat99  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
USA
All the guy said was don't be dense .. for crying out loud.. Some people get so wound up over this stuff it just blows my mind.. Things that, if said in a bar over a beer would most likely be be met with a "STFU you don't know what you're talking about... " said with a smile followed by an order for another round and all would be well.

Sometimes it just seems like people get all thin skinned sensitive when online ... and then they will turn around a curse you out in a PM because of it.. (Not saying that this is what Chivas did at all .. just in general.. and I have had that experience )mycomputer I could see it if a person was getting cussed out or called a bunch of names... but dense.. C'mon ... jeeze louise..

It's the internet.. reading

Getting back on topic though... Do we know what the final cost of an OR will be?


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#3828270 - 08/28/13 08:03 AM Re: News... [Re: Bearcat99]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
Chivas Offline
Senior Member
Chivas  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
All the guy said was don't be dense .. for crying out loud.. Some people get so wound up over this stuff it just blows my mind.. Things that, if said in a bar over a beer would most likely be be met with a "STFU you don't know what you're talking about... " said with a smile followed by an order for another round and all would be well.

Sometimes it just seems like people get all thin skinned sensitive when online ... and then they will turn around a curse you out in a PM because of it.. (Not saying that this is what Chivas did at all .. just in general.. and I have had that experience )mycomputer I could see it if a person was getting cussed out or called a bunch of names... but dense.. C'mon ... jeeze louise..

It's the internet.. reading

Getting back on topic though... Do we know what the final cost of an OR will be?


I asked a simple question on the implementation of the OR. Then replied once to Jason's dense comment. I then replied to a few people who saw a chance to throw a few more adjectives my way, much like your doing now. screwy

Back on topic. No word on the final cost of the OR, other than they're hoping to keep the price at around three hundred dollars, even lower if it can be bundled with software. Its cheap considering what we'd pay for the things it would replace. TrackIR and multiple 3D HD monitors.


Intel core I7 4790K @ 4.4
Asus Maximus Hero VII Motherboard
16 gigs DDR3 2133
EVGA GTX980Ti
Oculus Rift
LG 37" LCD
BLack Mamba III Joystick
Cougar Throttle/X55 Throttle/Saitek Levers
Saitek Pro Rudder pedals
Voice Activation Controls
#3828272 - 08/28/13 08:32 AM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,372
Trooper117 Online smile
Hotshot
Trooper117  Online Smile
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,372
UK
The thread topic was actually on the PE-2 screenshots... ahem, but I digress smile

#3828313 - 08/28/13 12:42 PM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,818
BKHZ_Furbs Offline
Senior Member
BKHZ_Furbs  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,818
By the looks of things its going to take a few revisions before we get a viable product for flight sims, even the HD version might not be good enough to be competitive in a hardcore flight sim.




http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-oculus-rift

I have great hopes that OR develops into a great product that does all we need in a flight sim and as soon as it does, im buying one but its at least 2 years away yet IMO.

Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 08/28/13 12:42 PM.
#3828440 - 08/28/13 06:02 PM Re: News... [Re: Chivas]  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
Originally Posted By: Chivas

The Oculus Rift is hardly a luxury item, it will replace the far more expensive TrackIR/ 3D 1080P Mult-Monitor setup, and will give you ten times the immersion. "If" they can continue to increase the resolution and decrease the tracking latency it will be hardware in high demand. They now have more than enough funding, and are hiring some of the brightest minds in the industry, to supplement their already dedicated crew to get it done. It might even be difficult to procure as it could be in demand, by the medical, military, architectural, and gaming industries, etc etc.

The fact that the OR is cheap compared to what its replacing will make its use much higher than 1%. Even people not interested in combat flight sims would buy BOS just to experience the feel of flight if they happened to own an OR. Especially if BOS is an early adopter, and one of the few flight sims with the OR implemented.




I think you are misreading the market.

You may have TIR and multiple monitors. Some others may. I, for example, have a single 24" monitor I bought like 3 years and TIR 4 I bought long before the 5 came out. I know there are many simmers who don't have TIR. I know there are many who don't have multiple monitors. Those who have both is not as large a number as you may think. I know there are those who don't even have a HOTAS, or even a set of rudder pedals.

For those with one monitor and possibly TIR 3, or who are living paycheck to paycheck, the OR is most certainly a luxury item. You are projecting your own desires and willingness to spend onto others whose values are NOT automatically your own.

I'd like an OR, but I seriously doubt I'll get one, even if I wasn't unemployed. But of course, as someone who's been flying flight sims for over 25 years and has owned thousands of dollars of hardware used just for simming (even though the PC and monitor are used for more than that) between CH, Logitech , Thrustmaster, and ACT Labs, I suppose I'm not the target audience. I'd rather spend the money OR costs on new software that I can rely on performing as expected than on a first-gen VR head tracking set.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3828451 - 08/28/13 06:27 PM Re: News... [Re: Jedi Master]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
Chivas Offline
Senior Member
Chivas  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally Posted By: Chivas

The Oculus Rift is hardly a luxury item, it will replace the far more expensive TrackIR/ 3D 1080P Mult-Monitor setup, and will give you ten times the immersion. "If" they can continue to increase the resolution and decrease the tracking latency it will be hardware in high demand. They now have more than enough funding, and are hiring some of the brightest minds in the industry, to supplement their already dedicated crew to get it done. It might even be difficult to procure as it could be in demand, by the medical, military, architectural, and gaming industries, etc etc.

The fact that the OR is cheap compared to what its replacing will make its use much higher than 1%. Even people not interested in combat flight sims would buy BOS just to experience the feel of flight if they happened to own an OR. Especially if BOS is an early adopter, and one of the few flight sims with the OR implemented.




I think you are misreading the market.

You may have TIR and multiple monitors. Some others may. I, for example, have a single 24" monitor I bought like 3 years and TIR 4 I bought long before the 5 came out. I know there are many simmers who don't have TIR. I know there are many who don't have multiple monitors. Those who have both is not as large a number as you may think. I know there are those who don't even have a HOTAS, or even a set of rudder pedals.

For those with one monitor and possibly TIR 3, or who are living paycheck to paycheck, the OR is most certainly a luxury item. You are projecting your own desires and willingness to spend onto others whose values are NOT automatically your own.

I'd like an OR, but I seriously doubt I'll get one, even if I wasn't unemployed. But of course, as someone who's been flying flight sims for over 25 years and has owned thousands of dollars of hardware used just for simming (even though the PC and monitor are used for more than that) between CH, Logitech , Thrustmaster, and ACT Labs, I suppose I'm not the target audience. I'd rather spend the money OR costs on new software that I can rely on performing as expected than on a first-gen VR head tracking set.





The Jedi Master



I may have totally misread the market, but the possibilities of more people wanting to experience flight sims because of the possible high immersion levels of the OR could increase exponentially.

My point on the OR is that people wouldn't have to buy the more expensive TRackIR/decent monitor combination and experience even higher immersion at a much lower price point.

The developers know they have to get the first consumer version right. They now have the financing, and have hired even more of the brightest minds in the industry to get it done. Now its just a wait and see, as the consumer version will have to have a much higher resolution than 1920x1080 to effectively spot aircraft, and very low latency's to avoid motion blur and smooth headtracking. Time will tell.

Last edited by Chivas; 08/28/13 06:35 PM.

Intel core I7 4790K @ 4.4
Asus Maximus Hero VII Motherboard
16 gigs DDR3 2133
EVGA GTX980Ti
Oculus Rift
LG 37" LCD
BLack Mamba III Joystick
Cougar Throttle/X55 Throttle/Saitek Levers
Saitek Pro Rudder pedals
Voice Activation Controls
#3828606 - 08/29/13 12:28 AM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 786
NattyIced Offline
Member
NattyIced  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 786
Everyone has to have a monitor. OR doesn't replace that need. It will still be required for other operations.

And OR definitely will not bring people into flight Sims. Flight Sims will get some into using OR, but not the inverse.

#3828708 - 08/29/13 05:07 AM Re: News... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
Chivas Offline
Senior Member
Chivas  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
B.C. Canada
Man has always wanted to explore flight. The OR could possibly be the most immersive way to do just that without leaving the ground. So yes there is a good chance that anyone interested in buying the OR, just might buy a flight sim along with other gaming software, for that experience.

People are always upgrading their Monitors and even TrackIR's. I've bought a quite a number of Computer systems, upgrading CPU's, GPU's, Memory, Monitors, and TrackIR versions{V1/V3/V5} in the last fifteen years of flight simming. For the last two years, I've looking to upgrade my current monitors, for a new gaming monitor, but the industry has concentrated on 3D monitors neglecting most other possible innovations. I've stopped looking as the OR might just be what I'm looking for, and my current office 37" HD TV, and 27" HD monitor, will still do just fine for web surfing etc.


Intel core I7 4790K @ 4.4
Asus Maximus Hero VII Motherboard
16 gigs DDR3 2133
EVGA GTX980Ti
Oculus Rift
LG 37" LCD
BLack Mamba III Joystick
Cougar Throttle/X55 Throttle/Saitek Levers
Saitek Pro Rudder pedals
Voice Activation Controls
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  CyBerkut, RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
CATS... IN... SPACE...
by Chef. 09/25/20 11:01 AM
Flight Testing In The Real World
by bolox. 09/23/20 12:42 PM
MEN ARE JUST HAPPIER PEOPLE
by NoFlyBoy. 09/22/20 11:06 PM
U.S. Space Force funny gaffe
by NoFlyBoy. 09/22/20 02:20 AM
Microsoft have bought Bethesda
by WangoTango. 09/21/20 02:23 PM
Death Stranding
by Chucky. 09/21/20 11:49 AM
The most compelling anti-heroes?
by PanzerMeyer. 09/21/20 03:55 AM
didn't know they did this to airplanes.
by NoFlyBoy. 09/21/20 02:20 AM
B-25 Damaged in Crash Landing
by F4UDash4. 09/20/20 04:48 PM
I will be on vacation
by NoFlyBoy. 09/19/20 05:57 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0