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#3818057 - 08/04/13 12:26 AM Other aircraft  
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jared17 Offline
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Excuse my ignorance if this has already been questioned and answered, but...

Will we have to purchase extra aircraft like we have to do with RoF? I'll be perfectly honest and say I'm really not a fan of the idea. I never liked it with RoF, and am a bit weary.

Thanks!


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#3818070 - 08/04/13 12:53 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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Yes, I believe that's basically how it's going to work. The developers have to get paid for their additional work somehow, so it makes sense to charge a modest fee for any additional content.

If you've got a better business model in mind, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to listen.


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#3818071 - 08/04/13 12:59 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: Pizzicato]  
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jared17 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pizzicato
Yes, I believe that's basically how it's going to work. The developers have to get paid for their additional work somehow, so it makes sense to charge a modest fee for any additional content.

If you've got a better business model in mind, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to listen.


I don't mean any abrasiveness, bud, so keep it in your pants. Thanks for the quick reply.


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#3818079 - 08/04/13 01:18 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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I'm curious when we will get P-39s . . .

#3818098 - 08/04/13 02:41 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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Originally Posted By: jared17
Excuse my ignorance if this has already been questioned and answered, but...

Will we have to purchase extra aircraft like we have to do with RoF? I'll be perfectly honest and say I'm really not a fan of the idea. I never liked it with RoF, and am a bit weary.

Thanks!


This from their website:

"Special Aircraft Set: Buyers of the Premium Edition will also get access to a couple more special aircraft (La-5 and FW-190 A-3) which cannot be obtained in the game, but can be purchased in our store after launch."

http://il2sturmovik.com/

We don't how much they're going to be yet.

#3818136 - 08/04/13 05:16 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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Originally Posted By: jared17
Originally Posted By: Pizzicato
Yes, I believe that's basically how it's going to work. The developers have to get paid for their additional work somehow, so it makes sense to charge a modest fee for any additional content.

If you've got a better business model in mind, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to listen.


I don't mean any abrasiveness, bud, so keep it in your pants. Thanks for the quick reply.


Wasn't meant to be snarky. I was actually being genuine. From what I've seen from Jason and Loft, I really believe that they would be open to new ideas regarding alternate business models.


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#3818144 - 08/04/13 06:47 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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Chivas Offline
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These type of sims are expensive to build and have a small market. I don't mind paying fifty bucks for some basic aircraft and combat theater, then buying other aircraft that I would like to fly. Even buying some I'd probably never fly. The steady income garnered by the developer gives me a better chance of seeing more theaters and aircraft. Selfish I know. wink Gone are the days where you pay once and hope the development stays in business long enough to build another theater. Its become too complex, expensive, and time consuming, with little profit, to keep the old business model.


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#3818145 - 08/04/13 06:57 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: Chivas]  
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
These type of sims are expensive to build and have a small market. I don't mind paying fifty bucks for some basic aircraft and combat theater, then buying other aircraft that I would like to fly. Even buying some I'd probably never fly. The steady income garnered by the developer gives me a better chance of seeing more theaters and aircraft. Selfish I know. wink Gone are the days where you pay once and hope the development stays in business long enough to build another theater. Its become too complex, expensive, and time consuming, with little profit, to keep the old business model.


Yep. That describes my own perspective almost perfectly.


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#3818147 - 08/04/13 07:00 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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A lot if it comes down to what it is worth to you. An FPS, sports game, or even some strategy games, I buy maybe play for a year, then done.

Hi-fi flight sims and wargames I buy and keep installed for years, even a decade or more. Those type of games probably are worth a couple hundred in todays economy.

#3818167 - 08/04/13 10:44 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: Chivas]  
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
These type of sims are expensive to build and have a small market. I don't mind paying fifty bucks for some basic aircraft and combat theater, then buying other aircraft that I would like to fly. Even buying some I'd probably never fly. The steady income garnered by the developer gives me a better chance of seeing more theaters and aircraft. Selfish I know. wink


Ditto. I'll buy this one despite having very little interest in the theatre and plane set, to support development of expansions.

Cheers

Nico


"Et s'il ne pleure personne, que Dieu nous le pardonne "

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#3818171 - 08/04/13 11:08 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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Yes, I think we have to accept that the time when we could buy a complete sim with 15 flyables 40 AI and a dynamic campaign for 30 has long gone.

We expect much more in terms of detail, graphics and engineering, I think detailed sims can survive but only if we accept that we have to pay more. Choosing the aircraft you want to fly as with ROF to me isn't an unreasonable business model.


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#3818178 - 08/04/13 11:46 AM Re: Other aircraft [Re: Mogster]  
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Originally Posted By: Mogster
Choosing the aircraft you want to fly as with ROF to me isn't an unreasonable business model.


That was exactly what I wanted to say. thumbsup

The alternative is what? A much cheaper sim with far fewer planes,features,details etc or something like a 100 + sim with everything in it? The latter seems to work for Steel Beasts but that's not what I would call a mainstream game.Besides I would think that they make their money from their corporate customers.

I own RoF and I only bought the aircraft I was interested in.It didn't spoil the experience for me.

On another note,I'm just wondering if BoS will ever have an unlimited demo like RoF did with just a couple of aircraft?


Last edited by Chucky; 08/04/13 11:48 AM.

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#3818195 - 08/04/13 01:00 PM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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If they move to selling BOS via Steam I think a F2P version with one map and one or two planes would be a smart move.

DCSW has just become available on Steam with the map and the Lock On SU25T available from free download. It seems to have created a bit of a stir, some of the early questions on the Steam DCSW forum are really worth a read biggrin


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#3818224 - 08/04/13 02:33 PM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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#3818650 - 08/05/13 05:07 PM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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In Ye Olden Times, flight sims featured either one plane in a "study" sim or multiple planes in a "survey" sim that were far less detailed that were flyable. Both types had multiple AI planes and ground units on both sides of the fight. Months to a year later we would get "expansion packs" which would add theaters, missions, new features, a small number of new flyable planes, or some combination of those. A couple of years later we got a sequel with all the same planes/theaters, mostly, but upgraded graphics or other features. Then the next round of expansions came to add the things the first expansions had.

The problem was the expansion packs cost $30+ but required buying the original title. So you could never sell more than you had original sales. How many people wouldn't buy it because they didn't want to pay $30 for that ONE thing in the expansion they wanted (ONE plane, ONE map, a campaign for a plane already in the game) as they weren't interested in the other stuff. It also meant your product lifecycle was short. After about a year you couldn't release any more packs because it was time to make the sequel.

On the one hand, the bundling made the cost of making new AI-only units easier to absorb as well as let the team put less popular planes in. Would anyone have bought the Larche for Il-2 as a standalone DLC??? It also has economy of scale...you get all this stuff for one price that's cheaper than paying per-piece.

However, the new reality is a la carte. Get the base product for one price, then add what you want, and only what you want, for extra. This enables a steady slow stream of income that enables the updates to smaller things and keeps the feast/famine cycle to a minimum. It's why ROF is still selling stuff years later and we didn't have to jump to ROF2 with minor improvements and start all over again 2 years ago.





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#3818698 - 08/05/13 06:36 PM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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Anyone have a plane list sofar?

p-39? p-40?


And we as its creators don't feel ready to hear your annoyed jabber about it.
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#3818699 - 08/05/13 06:39 PM Re: Other aircraft [Re: Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Master
Anyone have a plane list sofar?

p-39? p-40?


Don't know about their long term plans (they may not even have any yet), but the currently announced list for launch stands at:

Aircraft at Launch: Buyers of the Standard and Premium Editions will get the same base set of 6 aircraft (LaGG-3 (series 29), Bf-109 F-4, IL-2 AM-38 (1942 year's model, single-seat), Ju-87 D-3, Pe-2 (series 87 and 110) and He-111 H-6) with the possibility to earn 2 more aircrafts in the game (Yak-1 and Bf-109 G-2).

Special Aircraft Set: Buyers of the Premium Edition will also get access to a couple more special aircraft (La-5 and FW-190 A-3) which cannot be obtained in the game, but can be purchased in our store after launch.


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#3818768 - 08/05/13 08:46 PM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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Flight simming has been one of my many hobbies over the years, another is target shooting. Both require an initial outlay in equipment followed by regaular 'payments' to sustain, one with buying programs, the other ammunition.
There isn't really any difference in my book as it's as pointless to sit there with an empty hard drive as an empty gun. biggrin

#3818777 - 08/05/13 09:06 PM Re: Other aircraft [Re: jared17]  
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I don't mind the ROF pricing model. I was wary of the ROF system at first, but I have to say it worked out exceptionally well and they released a great plane set at fair prices. So i look forward to BOS doing so as well.

What I don't like is "earning planes in game". I truly hate the unlock content model, I find it kind of childish and arcade like. I hope they drop this idea or include a workaround to by pass it.

#3818809 - 08/05/13 11:02 PM Re: Other aircraft [Re: Tarnsman]  
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Originally Posted By: Tarnsman
What I don't like is "earning planes in game". I truly hate the unlock content model, I find it kind of childish and arcade like. I hope they drop this idea or include a workaround to by pass it.


I have to agree. This kind of system works very well for MMO games, where people have to grind to unlock new stuff, keeping the servers busy and the game alive and attractive to potential new players. In a flight sim though, I'd expect to be able to jump straight into my Yak without having to suffer (from Il-2 experience, I do believe that is the correct word...) through hours of flying the LaGG-3.

If the aim of the unlock system in BoS is to encourage players to play MP to keep the servers full, I doubt there'll be any workarounds to unlock the planes directly, as that would defeat the purpose of the system.

Cheers

Nico


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