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#381566 - 06/04/02 05:36 AM avoiding missiles..yeah right!  

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I've been so called playing this sim for awhile and others also. I have been to the sites, read and d/l the tutorials etc etc.. One thing that i cant do consistently is avoid missiles. I can hardly believe it when i look at a track that has some dude shape up against a aim54 loaded tomcat and dodges them all!!..i follow the same procedure and do you think i can get past more than 1 inbound death stick?..nope. I am no intellectually or coordination challenged individual so i am going mad trying to do this thing!!..i have setup missions and flew past sams and even one or more to one to arrive at a consistent technique..but to my frustration, cant do it!!...i know i know, SA and spot the missile coming in, get it on your beam etc etc..yeah done all that...still gets me.

i feel blessed when one misses me...which isnt often.

can anybody give me some surefire tactics here...?!

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#381567 - 06/04/02 07:51 PM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  

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You bring up an interesting aspect of Flanker & have only seen one other post discuss it.

Flanker appears to calculate percentages of missile success. Like a particular missile approaching at this angle, at a target pumping flares, at such & such closing speed, whether or not ECM is on. This missile under these environmental circumstances has this percentage of a chance of hitting its target; Flanker rolls the dice, and it either hits or does not hit the plane.

So I've noticed even if I fly the very same mission with the very same approach, missile success may be different. Depending on the percentages of the shot.

That dude with the F14 track may have had ten attempts prior to his successful track doing the very same thing each time until he got the showoff track he finally published.

So in answer to your question, wondering if there is never a single missile evasion tactic that works all the time. Depends on its percentages.

About that F14 loaded w/ Phoenix missiles. Since the Tomcat is a nonflyable plane & I have yet to fly online, guess I can give away the store on what success I have had.

I use R27r semi active missiles against the Tom. I know I have been shot at & close anyway until get radar lock & a R27 fired off. Then keeping the radar lock & knowing where the Tom is turning my plane so that there is a 45 degree angle between myself at the Tom. Start pumping chaff when MLW beep goes off. The AIM 54s are usually though not always decoyed away. 54s are designed for shooting down slower larger bombers, & they really seem to go for those decelerating chaff bundles. Your R27 has a high percentage of hitting the large Tomcat solving that problem.

The few tracks I have published under Afghan Campaign. I admit there is some luck involved. On track 4, snuck up on three F15s using electo optical. Fired one R27t each at the first two eagles, switched to R27r and fired at third. First t hit, second missed, held lock on 3rd until missile hit, then yanked plane back toward that second missed eagle.

Right at that yank, a sparrow the 2nd eagle fired whizzed by my plane so close you can hear the missile sizzle. Was just luck yanked the plane at that moment to evade the sparrow.

You might want to check it out. One of the coolest moments have seen on published tracks.

http://home.att.net/~corwin14/Flanker.htm

#381568 - 06/04/02 10:00 PM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  

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I will ! absolutely.

thanks man..going there right now.

out.

#381569 - 06/05/02 12:29 PM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  
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There is only one surefire missle evasion technique - not let yourself be fired upon. This is difficult, but by maintaining high situational awareness, nap of the earth flying, and avoiding high threat environments it may be achieved. Of course this is even more difficult when you must directly combat an aggressor.

#381570 - 06/08/02 02:56 AM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  
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H2H engagement with the F-14, you in SU-27 or 33, in Flanker 2.51.

Have 2 or more R-77s loaded. Approach him at around 4500-6000m altitude, have auto throttle engaged at 950 kmh. When your RWR lights up, fire up your RADAR and start tracking him, he will be able to lock you up before you can lock him up. Listen to your threat reciever, you'll hear the solid tone of his lock, and then it will suddenly drop. This means he has fired an AIM-54, if you've set up a clear, moderately dark sky (around 9pm is good), you soon see the smoke trail heading your way.
Lock him up as far out as possible, but hold your fire until he is 45-50 km away. Fire your 1st R-77 (it usually misses), and break 90 degrees left or right. Panning your view, maintain visual on the inbound Phoenix, this is crucial. If you can't see it, you're gonna eat it.

Establish and hold a 10 degree bank into the missle while holding your altitude. Using the mini HUD to hold your bank ,keep that damn missle in the middle of your screen. At first, you'll see the Phoenix seem to hang nearly motionless, but as it gets closer, the relative motion will make it seem to suddenly accelerate across your canopy. When this happens, execute "The Move". This is essentially an orthagonal roll into the missle. It's very similar to a barrel roll, but instead of pulling the stick into the rear left/right quadrant (which makes the aircraft roll and pitch simultaneously) establish the roll FIRST. Roll, then pull (while continuing to roll). You want to be about a quarter of the way into your roll before you pull, so that you are breaking into the missle and then down (NEVER have an upwards vertical component in this manuever). Stated another way, begin the roll, and when the world is sideways, PULL! It will probably get you the first few times you try, but once you get the timing down of when to initiate "the move", you be able to dodge AIM-54s almost at will.

Be advised that as soon as you dodge the first one, another is gonna be heading your way.

It is not neccesary to complete the roll after you evade, but if you go past 180 degrees (upside down), go ahead and continue it and smoothly pull back into the Tomcat. Lock him back up and shoot another R-77, and smoothly continue your turn until you are 90 degrees abeam to him, going the opposite way you were the first time. The 2nd R-77 will usually get him, repeat "The Move" going the other way.

Tips and alternatives.
Instead of firing a single missle, fire your first R-77 at around 52 km, then your second at 45 km.
Another trick you can try is to begin your beaming manuever as soon as you detect him. Look at your RWR, and turn until he is 90 degrees left/right. This cuts down the kinematic range advantge he has, although he will still lock you up before you can return the favor. Only when the lock drops do you need to worry. Just wait for him to be well inside your missle envelope before you break back into him and your first missle will have a better chance. You still gotta execute "The Move".
BIG TIP: Watch your heading, noting first and foremost what heading the bad guy is down. This will help you find your 90 degree abeam heading, and also helps you re-aquire him after you dodge his missle(s).

Finally, if the weather conditions are cloudy, DO NOT engage F-14s. You MUST see the Phoenix to dodge it.

R-33 toting MiG-31s on the other hand, can be engaged in all weather. But thats another story.

Good luck, and gute jagd.


Molôn Labé!
#381571 - 06/10/02 05:01 AM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  

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LOL!
Did everybody get that!
Wait let me get the pause key to make sure didnt miss anything.

#381572 - 06/11/02 07:26 AM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  

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The biggest problem is the fact that we can't padlock that damn missile. Therefore, if you are fired upon in the day time, you got no hope in hell to visually see the incoming missile.

All the AIM-54's that I've dodged, and it's only a handful, have been cuz of pure luck

Another alternative is to have another player to give you cues when to turn. This ofcourse means you have to be in a multiplayer session. We did this a few nights ago where I was yelling out on comms to our fearless CO 331st_Beowulf, the turning cues. It was quite funny...I could see the missile coming up his six then yelling out "HIT THE DECK BEO! GO GO GO! BANK LEFT 90 DEGREES! DIVE! HOLD YOUR COURSE ITS NEARLY THERE....BANK HARD LEFT NOW! NOSE DOWN!"..... and voila! he survived

Other than that..if you get a missile launch and you know its an AIM54...just hit CTRL-E



*salute*

Le B

#381573 - 06/13/02 02:00 PM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  
Joined: May 2002
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al21 Offline
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Hi Oxy,
Take a look at this thread:

http://207.212.235.18/flanker2/Forum1/HTML/004071.html

I start praying on day 1 I realized this terrible weapon modelling that no other sim in the future will repeat such a mistake. Especially LOMAC.

#381574 - 06/13/02 10:01 PM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  

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Ahh, just put it on High Survivability and Easy Missiles... this'll more than make up for the bad missile modeling.
(v2.5 of course)

There's always been a problem with missiles in this series. In v1.2 they were too accurate and too maneuverable. Ive seen R73s do 100 degree turns and put a fire up my ... In v2.3, the second one always nails you-me-them-everybody.

Hopefully LOMAC

#381575 - 08/11/02 08:07 PM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  
Joined: Aug 2002
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I stopped downloading patches after being very disappointed in the final product.

Does beaming/notching even work in the sim?

Do any of the missiles proximity explode?

When I was flying the sim neither worked. I'd have a SAM or missile just whizz right by me but never could I notch a missile. And I never saw one proximity detonate.


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#381576 - 08/12/02 04:41 AM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  
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Take a look at this :
http://207.212.235.18/flanker2/Forum1/HTML/004267.html

Everyone shares your disappointment.

#381577 - 08/12/02 06:29 AM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by al21:
Take a look at this :
http://207.212.235.18/flanker2/Forum1/HTML/004267.html

Everyone shares your disappointment.


Not everybody, some of us are having a blast evading missiles. Take a look at this: http://www.alasrojas.com/tablon/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=750&forum=1&14

Cheers,

Juan Andrés "Susto"
Alas Rojas
http://www.alasrojas.com

#381578 - 08/12/02 06:54 AM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  
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al21 Offline
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Posts: 104
Hong Kong, China
Well, not every one got a B52 to decoy.

#381579 - 08/12/02 10:56 AM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  
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Chicago Ridge
Just keep in mind that whenever you record a mission, missile evasion is much easier. You won't get hit by proximity hits.

Louie 'Zeke'

------------------
CO 333rd VFS 'Punkbusters' (F2.5, LOMAC)
XO 33rd VCS 'Red Storm' (IL2)

#381580 - 08/12/02 02:27 PM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  
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Hehe.....I never though of using a flying truck as a blocker :P Very funny though. I can't read spanish...wish I could.. I bet those posts are good reads.

As for proximity hits....I can honestly say that I've never seen a SAM or A2A missile proximity detonate near me. I haven't tried 2.51 out but to me it felt pretty dumb doing a barrel roll around a missile launched from a Hawk site. There goes a missile whizzin by my head into the sunset

I've always considered myself fairly good at evading missiles. I understand the basics involved. But in F2 I really feel like a noob at times. Those deathsticks seem to never loose energy even at the outside of there envelopes. If it were for Rich showing me how easy it is to spoof certain missiles in the sim I'd never believe it. I think he carries a top secret jammer on his bird.


Asus A7N8X Dlx. 1.06 (1004 Uber/SATA)|XP1700+ OC'd to 2341mhz|512mb XMS3500
ATI AIW 9700 pro 340/310 (Currently running Cat 3.10's)|WD 120gig SE
SoundStorm|Nvidia NIC|LiteOn 52x24x52|LiteOn 16x DVD
Antec 1000 AMG LE|460 Enermax
#381581 - 08/13/02 03:02 AM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  
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Posts: 104
al21 Offline
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Can't agree anymore .

#381582 - 08/18/02 03:51 AM Re: avoiding missiles..yeah right!  

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I'm pretty sure F2 models proximity blasts. After all, its normally the one that just doesnt quite hit you that ends up blasting you to peices.


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