|
#3800708 - 06/23/13 06:21 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: ePap]
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
|
In July 1968, the Commission has suspended further testing of the failing OSA system.  The Commission lists all identified weaknesses: - Layout war machine ... does not provide a circular firing in a given zone of destruction, given the effectiveness of shooting at low-flying targets and fire at the target zone by two series of rockets launched; - Do not provide the required lower limit of the affected area of 50-100 m and the efficiency of fire due to the large pointing errors; - Not be guaranteed because of the burning rocket nozzle of the engine block, which leads to additional errors guidance; - The complex has a large dead time, which limits its ability to engage suddenly appearing targets; - In connection with a significant overload of combat vehicle can not be conformed to reserve, walking speed and buoyancy of the complex. During testing, one example sinked in the Black Sea...  And yet, despite the fact that by the time the work on the complex Mauler (US equivalent system) stopped (and it gave a good reason for making similar decisions), the creators of "Osa" was still determined to bring this work to completion. As a result, they had released two more years. The Council of Ministers of the USSR, the new deadline to "Osa" on state tests was set II quarter of 1970. Soon, the NII-20 (NIEMI) held a meeting on the question of principle with GRAU Chief Marshal of Artillery PN Kuleshov. After explaining the situation, the VP Efremov proposed to delete the requirement of shooting on the run from TTP to develop "Osa", replacing it with a short stop shooting. However, he suggested to keep the ability to detect targets in motion, on the march, and enter into a fighting machine second channel auto-tracking missiles, providing salvo firing at a target. After a heated discussion of the proposals, despite the protests were on the meeting as representatives of Grau, PN Kuleshov agreed to changes in the technical order.
|
|
|
#3801045 - 06/24/13 05:24 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: ePap]
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
|
|
|
|
#3801063 - 06/24/13 06:21 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: ePap]
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
|
So I assume differences in prencipals, in naval version and land OSA versions ?
All I know is that they are 100% equal in missile (9M33) and 70% in transmitting device...: http://www.snariad.ru/navy-pvo/osa-m/http://www.warships.ru/Russia/Weapons/ZRK/OSA/   It looks like it has only one SVR (Missile Tracking Radar - Narrow Beam)... Is that means that it could guide only one missile at a target?... Here some "first hand" commentary: It's work logic scheme, in my opinion, has not big difference, but the layout and AVS! LAnd variant of the Complex is far better ! When in 2005 me and Igor Nedviginym (former battalion commander with the TFR, and then the officer Urawa PF) in my school looked at OSA (I was on the 25th anniversary of the release, and Igor's son did), he was amazed at how wonderfully done and closed AVS (antenna power cable system). And we have the version with open cables, rotting from the sea water! And Clumsy wide beam antena. Hitting planes was not something challenging for OSA. In the army, improving the system followed the path of struggle with helicopters, and we have become aware that main target for our OSA are anti-ship missiles, and here http://svzriu.ru/teh.php?type=osa clearly traces the history of the modification of the complex. When I went to the Navy after college I saw that OSA-MA, the almost complete analog of OSA-AK. Layout and antennas are not counted. Here are just a different PSA(analog computer) and stability system - on land airframe (gyros and vertical gyroscopes). A rocket is the same, except that the wings fold up and stuff in TPK. ....Because cipher and has 9M33M2. But this universality of all evils. How not to upgrade your PSA, and if the rocket is not designed to destroy aircraft (aircraft), but only for his defeat, the result respectively. Aspen missiles with high-explosive effect within 5m, and that we are on the TTC - complex provides guidance to within 15m. That is, the destruction of the aircraft is not guaranteed. And we have to deal with anti-ship missiles flying at a low altitude, the discovery of which, and its fire can be the minimum distance at which the affected but not destroyed (not destroyed) Anti-Ship Missile can fly into the board. I do not know if my idea is clear, but it is that in the Navy as opposed to the land we have to deal with the ship and anti-ship missiles, and the ship is easier to be hit. And in the performance of practical shooting, and even if such violations that were at the last shooting "Monsoon" further increases this risk. I believe that the versatility of this missile has also become one of the factors that led to the death of the "Monsoon".
|
|
#3801068 - 06/24/13 06:30 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
|
|
|
|
#3801096 - 06/24/13 07:27 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
ePap
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
Athens
|
piston79. Thanks for all these nice feedbacks. 
Last edited by ePap; 06/24/13 08:47 PM.
|
|
|
#3801891 - 06/26/13 06:27 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: farokh]
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
|
farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
|
 new generation of osa ? EPAP@ this picture for osa missile ?" this missile is very smooth ! so why fly it like drunk man on sky ? So I assume differences in prencipals, in naval version and land OSA versions ?
All I know is that they are 100% equal in missile (9M33) and 70% in transmitting device...: http://www.snariad.ru/navy-pvo/osa-m/http://www.warships.ru/Russia/Weapons/ZRK/OSA/ It looks like it has only one SVR (Missile Tracking Radar - Narrow Beam)... Is that means that it could guide only one missile at a target?... Here some "first hand" commentary: It's work logic scheme, in my opinion, has not big difference, but the layout and AVS! LAnd variant of the Complex is far better ! When in 2005 me and Igor Nedviginym (former battalion commander with the TFR, and then the officer Urawa PF) in my school looked at OSA (I was on the 25th anniversary of the release, and Igor's son did), he was amazed at how wonderfully done and closed AVS (antenna power cable system). And we have the version with open cables, rotting from the sea water! And Clumsy wide beam antena. Hitting planes was not something challenging for OSA. In the army, improving the system followed the path of struggle with helicopters, and we have become aware that main target for our OSA are anti-ship missiles, and here http://svzriu.ru/teh.php?type=osa clearly traces the history of the modification of the complex. When I went to the Navy after college I saw that OSA-MA, the almost complete analog of OSA-AK. Layout and antennas are not counted. Here are just a different PSA(analog computer) and stability system - on land airframe (gyros and vertical gyroscopes). A rocket is the same, except that the wings fold up and stuff in TPK. ....Because cipher and has 9M33M2. But this universality of all evils. How not to upgrade your PSA, and if the rocket is not designed to destroy aircraft (aircraft), but only for his defeat, the result respectively. Aspen missiles with high-explosive effect within 5m, and that we are on the TTC - complex provides guidance to within 15m. That is, the destruction of the aircraft is not guaranteed. And we have to deal with anti-ship missiles flying at a low altitude, the discovery of which, and its fire can be the minimum distance at which the affected but not destroyed (not destroyed) Anti-Ship Missile can fly into the board. I do not know if my idea is clear, but it is that in the Navy as opposed to the land we have to deal with the ship and anti-ship missiles, and the ship is easier to be hit. And in the performance of practical shooting, and even if such violations that were at the last shooting "Monsoon" further increases this risk. I believe that the versatility of this missile has also become one of the factors that led to the death of the "Monsoon". piston you dud a great job on my greate begginner subject 
Last edited by farokh; 06/26/13 06:36 PM.
|
|
|
#3801971 - 06/26/13 10:10 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: piston79]
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 10
crotalito
Junior Member
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 10
|
To developer:
Will "Karat" became blind/broken when targeting the sun? The karat becomes blind when targeting the sun but the video camera has got some filters (x3) to avoid this problem type.
|
|
|
#3802107 - 06/27/13 07:52 AM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: piston79]
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
|
To developer:
Will "Karat" became blind/broken when targeting the sun? Not decided yet... ... probably not. Still Karat is seen as an experiment, not sure if it will be in the final release... (depends if it will be smooth enough in my Intel-i7 8 core 2.8Ghz CPU) ... anyway, if you do not switch it on, than the code will be faster.
Last edited by Hpasp; 06/27/13 07:53 AM.
|
|
|
#3802263 - 06/27/13 07:29 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: Alien_MasterMynd]
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
|
Hello Hpasp, is SAMSIM able to use more than one CPU core or is it a single threaded application? I do not know if multithreading is even possible in VB (I program only in Delphi and C). The main SAMSIM VB code is using one processor only (for logic, and math) but for displaying, I extensively use 2d graphic API of Windows. That use all available system resources.
|
|
|
#3802570 - 06/28/13 03:00 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
|
farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
|
To developer:
Will "Karat" became blind/broken when targeting the sun? Not decided yet... ... probably not. Still Karat is seen as an experiment, not sure if it will be in the final release... (depends if it will be smooth enough in my Intel-i7 8 core 2.8Ghz CPU) ... anyway, if you do not switch it on, than the code will be faster. i am full agree with hpasp decision ! Karat item could be an experiment for systems im not sure that we should wait more than 9 months just for karat item ! hpasp could create karat for samsim as a expansion patch at future !i guess it is good idea right hpasp ? if u agree that karat could an expantion patch , so you can keep working on samsim without stress and without wasing time for karat without karat , samsim stand on top of other simulators head ! like a boss 
Last edited by farokh; 06/28/13 03:03 PM.
|
|
|
#3802601 - 06/28/13 04:35 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: Mdore]
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
ePap
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
Athens
|
Guys, once we have Karat for the SA-8, it could probably be very easily ported to the SA-2E, SA-2F, SA-4 and ZSU-23-4. All of these have either a TV or telescope system.
It's not a tiny thing restricted to just the SA-8, It could revolutionise the entire simulator!
For SHORAD TV/IR camera is a must. For medium and long range systems is not an essential feature . What ever Hpasp will decide it will well accepted.
Last edited by ePap; 06/28/13 05:01 PM.
|
|
|
#3802631 - 06/28/13 05:24 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: ePap]
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
|
Guys, once we have Karat for the SA-8, it could probably be very easily ported to the SA-2E, SA-2F, SA-4 and ZSU-23-4. All of these have either a TV or telescope system.
It's not a tiny thing restricted to just the SA-8, It could revolutionise the entire simulator!
For SHORAD TV/IR camera is a must. For medium and long range systems is not an essential feature . What ever Hpasp will decide it will well accepted. During Desert Storm, the most effective SAM system was the S-75M Volhov (SA-2E). They used Karat, and launched only at close range. Pretty effective tactics against jamming and HARMs... 
|
|
|
#3802638 - 06/28/13 05:39 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: Mdore]
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
|
farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
|
Guys, once we have Karat for the SA-8, it could probably be very easily ported to the SA-2E, SA-2F, SA-4 and ZSU-23-4. All of these have either a TV or telescope system.
It's not a tiny thing restricted to just the SA-8, It could revolutionise the entire simulator!
mdore@ i dont said no karat ! i just said , we can have it after release normal sa-8 ! hpasp could done karats for all systems at one expansion patch at future after sa-8 ! i guess it could be logical decision ! hum?hpasp?
Last edited by farokh; 06/28/13 05:44 PM.
|
|
|
#3802654 - 06/28/13 05:57 PM
Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
ePap
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
Athens
|
Guys, once we have Karat for the SA-8, it could probably be very easily ported to the SA-2E, SA-2F, SA-4 and ZSU-23-4. All of these have either a TV or telescope system.
It's not a tiny thing restricted to just the SA-8, It could revolutionise the entire simulator!
For SHORAD TV/IR camera is a must. For medium and long range systems is not an essential feature . What ever Hpasp will decide it will well accepted. During Desert Storm, the most effective SAM system was the S-75M Volhov (SA-2E). They used Karat, and launched only at close range. Pretty effective tactics against jamming and HARMs... The only system with verified target destruction was sa-8b. 18 tomahawk downed !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
|
|
