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#379300 - 03/03/01 05:13 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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can of worms here.

I just think it is a bit disappointing to have to wait while we see it on the shelves... and other people who didn't support the sim earlier (ie by buying it) get the patch before those who did support it.

Just an unfortunate PR decision really, but some suit somewhere thinks it a good way to make a few extra bucks. Unfortunately it's this sort of thing that can turn a loyal supporter into a disgruntled customer.


What WW2 Fighter pilots say about Angels and Airspeed:

"Nice job of getting down to the basics - love your choice of a cover!" Col. Clarence 'Bud' Anderson

"I have enjoyed reading angels and airspeed, it should prove good reading for all interested in combat tactics and their application related to the fluid air environment and state of technology in WWII years. All the best as you make it available." - Col. Charles McGee - Tuskegee Airman

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#379301 - 03/03/01 05:31 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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Have patience peoples.

Does anyone remember a game called Swat 3?They released a FREE upgrade(Multiplayer) at the same time as the retail release.

I personally believe this is a good way for them to be compensated for their efforts on 2.5. Heck, if it delivers/adds what they say it will, then I just may go buy it again to show my support for their hard work and support.


--Softball



--SOFTBALL
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"The tragedy of war is that it uses man's best to do man's worst." - Harry Emerson Fosdick 1933
#379302 - 03/03/01 05:37 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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Well .... hmmmm, how do I say this tactfully ... guess I can't so here goes ...

I already have 2.5 ( http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/previews/flanker25/ )and I will be one of the first in the store to buy a copy as well. Even tho I have a cable modem and the 80 meg file would take about 10 minutes to download on a bad day, it is the support issue that I am looking at. $20 bucks to show SSI and their owners (who ever that may be http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/Forum33/HTML/000105.html ) that the community is willing to support these types of simulations. Personally even if they released it for download today, I would be buying it still as well. If the games sell, they will make more ... this is a business after all.

I can see the dissapointment that it is going to be delayed a bit, but this is one of the best free things I have ever seen. Can't say that I have ever really seen anything else anywhere that was free that was actally worth while ... well, except for this site of course.



------------------
Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
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Dan "CRASH" Crenshaw
Author of \"How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky\"

100th AFW Buddy Boys
"We land on the fantail and drive to the wires"
#379303 - 03/03/01 05:49 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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We're talking about 30 days here.............

This isn't Christmas and we're not a bunch of kids who have been had by Santa Claus.

..Let these guys do their job and promote their product......

They delayed the release a little bit, they did not pull the offer back from anybody.
they have good reason and a legit opportunity here....

4 weeks............and everybody is happy.

...would you know it if it bit you??

Jim

#379304 - 03/03/01 05:49 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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When SSI announced that the 2.5 update was going to be free, everyone gushed with offers to donate money to the cause for the developers efforts. Well guess what? SSI has told us how we can do exactly that without even spending an extra dime. Instead of money, all they want is some patience and some time for them to move some inventory and maybe make some cash.

Methinks its time for some people out there to put their money (or time in this case) where their mouths are.

#379305 - 03/03/01 07:41 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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Louie,

You seem to think that we knew about the EB deal when we made the first posting; We did not. You also seem to think that we have no intention of actually making the V2.5 upgrade a free download; We will make it a free download.

If we never release a free V2.5 upgrade you may call me whatever you wish.

I'm willing to bet you a beer of your choice that the free upgrade will be available at the same time as the remastered Flanker boxes appear at EB. How about it? A bet?

Cheers,
Carl

P.S. I'll wager a Guinness.



[This message has been edited by Combatsim_ssi (edited March 03, 2001).]

#379306 - 03/03/01 07:47 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by mglouie:
Carl, maybe you should just honor your/SSI's word:

"GAME Studios / SSI and The Fighter Collection are pleased to announce the scheduled release of the Flanker 2.5 upgrade. The upgrade to Flanker 2.0 will be provided free of charge. The upgrade will be available initially for download and we hope to distribute it by other means in the weeks to come."


Hi Zeke,

Where in the above statement do you see a definitive release date for 2.5? It says in the "weeks to come". That to me means in the future and nothing more.

How do you see what they are doing now as going against their word?

Do you feel that SSI should blow off the EB deal and the financial support for Lock On and future products just to keep the few people upset over this happy? Didn't think so.

I have been receiving free copies of Flanker since 1.5 and yet I still make an effort to go out and buy the sim anyway and I will also do so with the 2.5 bundle.

SSI needs our support in these brutal times for combat flight sims and 2.5 will still be free for those who do not wish to support them.

CRASH, Jim, and Spiff... good posts!

Cheers,

Stinger



[This message has been edited by Stinger (edited March 03, 2001).]

#379307 - 03/03/01 08:40 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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First off,

Stinger, did you read the whole annoucement on the F2 web site, the first one about 2.5 release? It said end of February. Ok. Hell I could care less when it comes out, but I see no reason to worry about SSI or Carl giving us information if it is going to change month to month. I can wait until the 'Real' info comes out. I don't need an info fix every week.

Carl, what does 'shortly after it hits the shelves' mean? Now you're telling us it will be availible at the same time? Great!

Guys, whether this thing is free or costs $100 doesn't mean a damn thing to me, I hope I've made my point about good and bad information and how it can cause distrust and anger among the followers. That's all I have to say on the matter.

Cheers,

Louie 'Zeke'


------------------

#379308 - 03/03/01 09:41 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by mglouie:
Carl, what does 'shortly after it hits the shelves' mean? Now you're telling us it will be availible at the same time? Great!


It will be available for download as soon as I am cleared to do it. I was told we could provide it as soon as it hits the shelves. I should probably be more cautious and state that it is not just up to me. If I have any say, it will be available the moment the boxes hit the shelves.

Again, when we posted the notice that stated the end of February, Matt and I had no knowledge of the EB deal and were confident that we would have the upgrade out before the end of February. Shame on us, but we reported what the current plan was at that time.

Carl

#379309 - 03/03/01 09:56 AM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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I would bet the reason they don't want the patch released before the cd is that there are alot of die-hard flanker fans out there who would rather just buy the cd rather than take the trouble to download it. Instant gratification and all that. If the patch came out much before the CD, those same die-hard fans who are all a-twitter in anticipation would definitely download it now matter how many hours it took on their 56k modem and therefore not buy the CD. I am sure there are other reasons as well, but this is just at the top of my head.


Break left... @#!$%^&% Your OTHER left!
#379310 - 03/03/01 12:22 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Troffmeister:
Personally i think this decision sucks big time !!

I get really annoyed when things in general are hyped and then not delivered on time !

Its like the Typhoon - Rage debacle - personlly i wish developers would just shut the f*** up about stuff , until such time as stuff is actually released to shops for purchase or download !

My opinion !!, the flip side of all this hype and disapointment is just this - disappointment !

I dunno about you guys but i think about sims most of the day - i was really looking forward to downloading the patch real soon - despite whatever positive stuff is said after my comments about the developer - yadda yadda yadda - i am still annoyed !

Careless talk costs lives , careless hype causes anger , frustration and disappointment !

Enough said

Troff :-0 :-(



Relax it's just game. It will come out soon. Even if it is delayed a month..that month will go by in no time. Meanwhile you get time to enjoy the sun and the great outdoors.

As for Typhoon, well when information about the game first starting appearing, Infogrames was suppose to publish the game. They sat on their hands and did nothing so the rights reverted back to Rage; causing the delay. Far from the debacle that you describe it as. Sometimes things happen that are beyond anyone's control.

Typhoon will be coming out in May. You can enjoy Flanker 2.5 while you wait. Heck give's me time to finish Baldur's Gate II.

#379311 - 03/03/01 04:55 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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Slappy:

I am buying the CD...since it is only being sold at EB it may take some time to get here so I may download it also.

The reason I am buying it is that I think SSI deserves some cash in return for their teams efforts.

Me I like my sims...and I would like to see new ones developed, not read more notices about closures.

------------------
dogfight.com

#379312 - 03/03/01 06:55 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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As i tried to comment on the F2 board last night (but got the error of doom instead!), the only defence to the rather vitriolic moaners is this: they are disappointed because they have to wait a little longer for a quality product.

But other than that, as I said, I'll probably buy two copies for the F2.0/2.5 combo. One for me, especially since my manual is in Ireland and I am in Canada, and one for my friend Don, who I have been trying to lure into sims for a long while.

And in closing...why is it such a big deal??
The free download is late. OK. That is a nuisance. We are all looking forward to it. But this means you can go and buy it in shops. You can tell your friends to go buy it in shops. SSI get some money, maybe even some profit, and hopefully drink and vacation money; the guys down at accounting think : oh-ho, this bodes well for Lock On, and everyone goes away happy.

Problems? I think not! Troff, I understand man. I know how it feels to wait. But SSI lucked out here, and I think we should trust them.

And do you know. When the 2.0/2.5 combo may be the time when you can look back, five years from now, and say: this is where the death of sims ended.

Gavin

#379313 - 03/03/01 08:03 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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Asteroid off the coast of Jupi...
Quote:
Originally posted by Gavin Bennett:

And do you know. When the 2.0/2.5 combo may be the time when you can look back, five years from now, and say: this is where the death of sims ended.

Gavin


All hail the Carl! Saviour of flight sims, bringer of light and other good stuff. Let us make burnt offerings before him!

As if his poor, fragile ego needs a boost.

Here, throw my Flanker CD on the fire, I'm outta here.

*Phage walks to the graven image which looks oddly like the south end of a horse going north. He suddenly notices a better place for his CD.

#379314 - 03/03/01 08:47 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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Well, this has got to be a new all time low in the world of flight sims.

Someone is giving away a game for free and people are bitching about it.... give me a break.

If you people had ANY class whatsoever you would go out and buy the game again just to show your SUPPORT.

Instead you throw a fit and look like a bunch of asses.....unbelievable.


Hook'em Horns
#379315 - 03/03/01 09:00 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Phage:
All hail the Carl! Saviour of flight sims, bringer of light and other good stuff. Let us make burnt offerings before him!

As if his poor, fragile ego needs a boost.

Here, throw my Flanker CD on the fire, I'm outta here.

*Phage walks to the graven image which looks oddly like the south end of a horse going north. He suddenly notices a better place for his CD.


I didn't deserve or ask for that. Bye now.

Carl

#379316 - 03/03/01 09:02 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Phage:
All hail the Carl! Saviour of flight sims, bringer of light and other good stuff. Let us make burnt offerings before him!

If you don't mind me asking, what would you have them do?

At a time when the flight sim market is producing ever thinner profits, and with a warehouse of Flanker 2.0 packs that cost the company money to make and then store, EB says that they'll put the product out on shelves again, with the addon. SSI gets rid of it's warehoused Flanker discs, *and* gets some cash money for them and the game gets another outing in the stores, to raise it's profile & hopefully get more people interested in it.

The only condition EB put on this is that the downloadable version doesn't go out before their add on pack.

What do you do? Turn down the money and the publicity?

In all seriousness, what would you have said to EB? What would you have said to your bosses when they heard you'd turned down the offer because people downloading the addon (who, in the eyes of management, aren't contributing to the bottom line) would have had to wait thirty days to get it?


------------------
Flt. Lt. Bertie "Binky" Farqhuarson,
No.1 AGHL Squadron
"Nous Sommes Tous Les Singes"
----------------------

#379317 - 03/03/01 09:40 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  
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Asteroid off the coast of Jupi...
Quote:
Originally posted by Combatsim_ssi:
I didn't deserve or ask for that. Bye now.

Carl


Oh. My mistake. Sorry then. It was a feeble attempt at keeping the adulation to a reasonable level. Bye.

#379318 - 03/03/01 10:01 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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Huh?

Adulation?
My definition of adulation is obviously not yours then.
Carl AND HIS TEAM are making a quality product. Using this quality product makes me happy and entertains me when i am bored. I get to watch cool dogfights, look at cool scenery and play around with a cool plane flight model. It's fun. Its about to become more fun.

I do not adore Carl and his TEAM. But i do respect them, and I do appreciate their work. That's all.

And believe me, this is it. Flanker and Typhoon are the only fast jet sims in development right now. Typhoon is having publishing problems. Flanker and its sequels are pretty much the whole story right now.

The future of this flight simming hobby as a commercial enterprise turns on Flanker right now. If Flanker/Lock On does well, we may see more sims in the future. If it does not, well, we probably won't. Not for a long time.

Understandably, as someone who likes sims... supporting Carl and his team's efforts is a good thing.

Not adulation. Respect. Appreciation. Not adulation. Carl can accept criticism. Criticism. Of the constructive sort. He takes this abuse from people. But still he answers questions and listens to concerns.

Again, appreciation of this service. Not adulation. Carl is just some guy (probably a scary one up close..., but just some guy). He and his team make a computer game.

A computer game. One that takes up large amounts of my time. But only a game. I play F/A-18 and EECH and Falcon 4 more. But I still play Flanker 2. and enjoy it.

That's all.

Gavin

#379319 - 03/03/01 10:43 PM Re: 2.5 on shelves before being downloadable?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Phage:
Oh. My mistake. Sorry then. It was a feeble attempt at keeping the adulation to a reasonable level. Bye.


I thought you were leaving.

Carl

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