#3791074 - 06/02/13 11:03 PM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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oldgrognard
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Lifer
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Last edited by oldgrognard; 06/02/13 11:12 PM.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#3791080 - 06/02/13 11:12 PM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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Mace71
Dread pirate Mace
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Dread pirate Mace
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Thanks, interesting that just a few years after WW2 they had moved along so fast. Also, is that a DIY foregrip or were they commonplace then?
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#3791082 - 06/02/13 11:17 PM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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oldgrognard
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Lifer
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It is more than a vertical grip. It is the control for the IR light. Here is more on that. Specifically it is a US M1 or M3 scope. If you look around in this link you can see a few examples. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Us+m...e&FORM=IGRE
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#3791126 - 06/03/13 01:11 AM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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oldgrognard
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Here is some better info I found on it. http://ugca.org/07jan/night.htm
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#3791129 - 06/03/13 01:21 AM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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oldgrognard
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Lifer
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The Germans were using it in The Bulge.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#3791135 - 06/03/13 01:49 AM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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Rick.50cal
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Lifer
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Thanks, interesting that just a few years after WW2 they had moved along so fast. Also, is that a DIY foregrip or were they commonplace then? Every picture I've seen of those early Carbines having night scopes on them, have that same vertical grip. I believe they were all modified that way right from the start, and I believe it was entirely due to the top-heavy weight, and INCREASED weight...to actually hold it to observe a target, without it flopping over a bit. In the days of the early 1930's Tommy Guns, they seemed to have the forward grips to help control muzzle rise, just as they had a Cutts Compensator on the muzzles...and it works, got to try a full auto one in Las Vegas years ago! Still climbs though, just less than it might otherwise. The military Thompson SMG's had both those features removed: no cutts compensator, no vertical grip, never issued drum mags either AFAIK, and I think there was some stamped parts to reduce the time/cost to manufacture the military version. In the last number of years, it's become fashionable to include vertical grips on M-4 carbines, and I think this has more to do with simply indexing for a consistent hold, and as use as a "hand stop". But in limited useage it helps with muzzle climb in full auto too. It's just that militaries have reverted away from actually using our rifles on full auto, it's FAR LESS common today than it was in the 1960's, 70's and even 80's IMO.
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#3791137 - 06/03/13 01:51 AM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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oldgrognard
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Rick, it is the control switch for the illuminator; that is why it's there. To turn the IR light (illuminator) on and off. Done so that the non-firing hand had an easy way to actuate a switch.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#3791171 - 06/03/13 02:32 AM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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NH2112
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Big disadvantage of Active is that someone else using Night Vision can see you illuminator just like you were shining a flashlight. Yep, it's why we never used the IR periscope and headlights on our M577 tracks. You might as well have driven with service drive on.
Phil
“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
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#3791191 - 06/03/13 02:59 AM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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NH2112
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If I'm right, IR is even less energetic than visible light, so it won't penetrate as far as visible light does.
Phil
“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
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#3791204 - 06/03/13 04:14 AM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Mace71]
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NH2112
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I don't see why not, but for a given amount of power the IR would be absorbed at a shorter distance than visible light would. Let's say visible light sources provided usable light at a max range of 100'. IR of the same power would only be usable from perhaps 90'. Or to use my earlier example, let's say both the service drive and IR headlights on the M577 track were 55W. The IR lights won't illuminate as far ahead of the track as the service drive ones would.
Last edited by NH2112; 06/03/13 04:16 AM.
Phil
“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
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#3791223 - 06/03/13 05:24 AM
Re: What is this?
[Re: Murphy]
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Damocles
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Really interesting that they were that far advanced back then. Too bad they didn't put up the cash to arm the rest of the troops with that gear. Would have saved some lives I'm thinking. But maybe it was a little delicate or too complex at first.
Really interesting that they even had access to that technology back then. Had no idea. From a Grunt's perspective, along with the battery pack, it looks bloomin heavy to be lugging around along with the rest of your kit and I can pretty much guaranty that it doesn't work as well as advertised or when you want or, more importantly, need it. It would not surprise me in the least if it was copied and based on something the Germans had developed during the war, they certainly went to a lot of trouble developing anti-IR paint for their subs, falsely believing the Brit's had developed the vision technology to spot them.
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