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#3790864 - 06/02/13 10:41 AM New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions  
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larkis Offline
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Hello,

I love flying study sims and fly a lot in the DCS10C mit TrackIR and my Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X. But im a solo pilot (dont have the time for a wing, and when i have time to fly, most at times where other dont want to fly. :D) And after a while, flying the 10C gets bornig to me. Always do the same "flying to a point, drop loadout, fly back" with no Ai and unespectet situations got boring to me.

So i try to change to Falcon 4. Lots more to do with that plane and the dynamic campaign promise a lot fo single player fun. biggrin

So i start and got a lot of questions. biggrin

1. is the flight model realistic?
Before i fligh the Falcon, i flow the A10C and the Su25T. And this planes still feel like a plane. Its hard to explain, a have lot of feelnigs for the speed, the preasure on the wings while changing course and for exampel i need a lot of trys to get the first landing without somethnig damaged, and i must mostly trimm the plane all over the time to get them real stable in the air, mostly with havy payload.

The Falocn feels like an arcade game. It lies absolute stabel in the air, no need for trimm and landing is really easy. i Thought i need da few days just to be ably to start, fly a round and land. But i got this after the fist minutes of flight. Is this nromal or is the flight system... easy?

2. Where can i find the Nose Wheel Steering Button?
My actual bigeest problem is, to taxi from the runway when i land on the airport. From DCS i know there is a Nose-Wheel-Steering Button, mostly on the Stick, which i must press to enable ground movement, but i didnt found them in cockpit or in the controls. i read a lot about Shift+/ but (maybe i have a german keyboard and the game knows that) in Controlls Shift+/ = Comm2

3. Is there an Ingame Map with infos about Airports ect?
I love it from DCS, getting the F10 Map which shows my plane in relation to the enivroment. Its good for me to get to the runway im supposed, and it also gives me all informations and frequencies to the airports to communicate with them. Is there somethnig similar in Falcon? Or how shoudl i know the frequencies? Its ok for me when i must wirte the on a notice block while briefing, but in mission briefing i dont found them.

4. How can i configure my HOTAS?
i know from DCs there are a lot of buttons there. And i still managed it to get the complete Warthog HOTAS on my Thrustmaster T..Flight HOTAS X. But here i cant define own mutators. For exmaple im mean something like:

Coolie = Trimm
joybut01 + Coolie = Slew
joybut02 + Coolie = TMS
joybut03 + Coolie = DMS

or
joybut01 = Speedbrakes out
joybut05 + joybut01 0 Speedbrakes in.

I hope someone could help me. smile

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3790899 - 06/02/13 02:36 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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Arthonon Offline
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-Ice is the resident Falcon BMS expert around here, but I'll give it shot in providing some info.

1. If you like the flight model in DCS, I think you'll like the flight model in BMS more than regular Falcon. It seems to have more "slop" under certain conditions, asymmetric loads require trimming, etc. Whether it's more realistic or not I can't say, I haven't flown a real F-16 smile .

2. This thread might give you some info: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ub...nd_#Post3680968

3. Morphine's Warthog profile is pretty commonly used. Here's a link to a thread for it over on the BMS forums, but you need an account there to log in:
http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?8147-Morphine-s-Profile


Ken Cartwright

No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.

http://www.techflyer.net

#3790907 - 06/02/13 03:15 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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larkis Offline
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Hi Arthonon smile

To the first, i think i would see it when i fly with loadout. Actual in the first missions there is no loadout and no need for it. biggrin

To the second, i read this thread before. The problem i think is thatim from german. on our keyboard the / is about the 7 and you only can reach them with Shift. So when i press ingame Shift + 7 it only recognise this, as shift + 7. But o looked now where "you" has the / on the keypbard, now it works. smile

To the thirt:
i think i wrote it wrong (sorry im from germany), i fly with the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X, not with the warthog. I only was able to map all A10c-HOTAS knoobs on the T.Flight.

#3790908 - 06/02/13 03:18 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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Originally Posted By: larkis
Hello,

1. is the flight model realistic?
Before i fligh the Falcon, i flow the A10C and the Su25T. And this planes still feel like a plane. Its hard to explain, a have lot of feelnigs for the speed, the preasure on the wings while changing course and for exampel i need a lot of trys to get the first landing without somethnig damaged, and i must mostly trimm the plane all over the time to get them real stable in the air, mostly with havy payload.

The Falocn feels like an arcade game. It lies absolute stabel in the air, no need for trimm and landing is really easy. i Thought i need da few days just to be ably to start, fly a round and land. But i got this after the fist minutes of flight. Is this nromal or is the flight system... easy?





You certainly do need to trim asymmetric loadouts in BMS - and it is not stable at all compared to what the F4-Allied Force FM was (Assume you have the settings on hard?)

And btw its a FBW jet (the A-10C isn't) - which means the computer has total control of the jet - yes its very easy to fly according to pilots.

The guy who did the FM spent about 10 years on it and its the actual FLCS coded from NASA data - so you wont get more realistic I guess - see here: http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?45-documentation

#3791010 - 06/02/13 08:40 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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1. BMS prides itself on matching NASA test data and I believe using identical FCC code in most/all of the sim. Where F4 rides "on rails" BMS is a lot more "swishy" like the real thing. The F-16 is FBW but it's not that FBW as the original F4 portrays. You can read more here: http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?45-documentation

2. As always check the controls page but the F-16s nosewheel button is on the forefinger side of the SSC, same button that the A-10 uses for the MMCB. Default controls are only default, change as you need.

3. In game there is only the 2D recon data. For more information I like to use http://www.combatsimchecklist.net/MAPKOREA/

4. If you want to use one shift then I suggest Pinky+256 shifting here: http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?153-DirectX-Shifting-Facility . If you want to use more shifts then you need to use an external program like TARGET or other to make distinct inputs. F4 does not handle DirectX input modifiers.

#3791061 - 06/02/13 10:34 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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Hello larkis and welcome to SimHQ and to BMS!

Let me start off by answering your questions:
1. Why would you care if the FM is realistic? Unless you are a Viper pilot, you probably can't tell the difference. They SAY that the F-16 behaves as it should be, based on available data, and suffice to say that I believe that. The BMS team have also mentioned on numerous occasions that they know of fighter pilots (or ex-pilots) who have verified that the thing flies more-or-less as it should.

As for handling the Viper, the FLCS does make it a bit easy. They haven't nailed the FLCS yet; supposedly, the jet can hold pitch angle given enough speed but at the moment it sorta drifts a bit. But yes, the FLCS can compensate a bit for pitch trimming unlike the A-10C. However, you will still have to trim for asymmetrical loads, which I am told is the same for the real jet.

Do note that the F-16 is a different beast when in clean configuration. So much so that if I'm so used to flying the fully-loaded Viper (2 wing tanks, 4 missiles, jammer, ground ordnance) that when I am in a clean aircraft, it's like going from a normal road car to a Ferrari.

2. The NWS is the small button on the right side of the F-16 stick. The control is "Shift+/" and the callback is SimMissileStep. As this control is on the HOTAS, you cannot "press" it in the cockpit, it should be mapped to your joystick or you should know the keyboard combination for it.

3. There are a lot of documents that will help you with the frequencies of the airports. If you look under your \Docs\Airport Approach & Navigation Charts folder, there are a few PDFs there that will give you the info you need. Specifically, look at the Korean Volume BMS 1002 file. As to the F10 view that DCS has, well, we have that too in BMS but is only accessible once you get "out" of the aircraft, unlike in DCS that you can access anytime.

If you want hardcore though, you can dial in the freqs of the airfields you think you are close to and get an idea of where you are, or simply land at the closest airfield based on the distance reading from your HSI/TACAN. biggrin

4. Again, refer to the \Docs\Falcon BMS Manuals folder, take a look at the Dash-1 file. See what callbacks are mapped to the F-16 HOTAS, that is what you want mapped to your T.Flight. An alternative would be to go to the BMS forums and see if someone has a pre-made profile for the same HOTAS you are using and start from there. Even if you change things, at least you are not starting from scratch.


Now with regards to SP vs MP, I take the opposite view from you. I have no patience for babysitting AI, and it grates my nerves when the AI calls out "targets" but no other useful info. DCS A10C was notorious for this... the wingman can "spot" targets a good few miles away, but there was no way he can "talk me on target." I'd rather fly with another "blind" human pilot, thanks! At least when HE says he found a target, I can ask him "where?"

As for having time for a wing, obviously it depends on a lot of factors. Thankfully, in today's world, there are a good few wings out there that realize that this is a hobby and that real-life obligations take priority. Given a good wing, you are only cheating on yourself by choosing to miss out on this experience. Let's just say a 30-person MP flight is quite an experience biggrin

However, I do a few flights with just a small group of guys. PM me your info and location and we might be able to sort something out.

Hope that helps!


- Ice
#3791063 - 06/02/13 10:44 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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Hmmm... the original poster has never mentioned BMS... I'm not sure whether that's the Falcon incarnate he's flying... Indeed, in some other versions the simmer may have an impression, regarding the FM, that the viper feels a bit stiff and linear at times compared to other aircraft in other simulators (say, the DCS series). IMHO the F-16 flight model in BMS is truly outstanding and no other sim reflects the 'being suspended in a fluid' impression so well. But I'm not a RL viper pilot wink

#3791068 - 06/02/13 10:50 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: TommyGun]  
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Originally Posted By: TommyGun
Hmmm... the original poster has never mentioned BMS...


Hmmm.... I never noticed that. He did say Falcon 4, and I guess my mind just thought "BMS"...

In that case, all the points above do not apply to Falcon 4 or Falcon 4 Allied Force. BMS has improved over those in so many ways.


- Ice
#3791228 - 06/03/13 05:47 AM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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larkis Offline
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I mentioned it on the thread title "New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions".

But i clearly think its feels so railway cause i fly without loadout. biggrin I will ckeck that again with a full loadout plane maybe this feels much more similar to me.

To the point with multiplayer. I fly a lot of times with other guys together. But there start for me a lot of problems which i cant handle.

1. They only flight at evening cause there have time then. But i dont have time to fly at this time, i mostly get time to flight on morning or midday.

2. Cause i dont can fly so often (mostly 1-2 Times in 1-2 weeks) i just learn slowly to handle the plane. For example i only can fly on the waypoints line and drop maveriks and Gbu12, and the other are hunting Tunguskas while triangulate there positions on map with the RWR, or flying Cas with generating there own waypoints. So mostly i can fly there missions cause i dont have the skill level, and they are still bored flying my low skill level missions. biggrin

So its bether for my only flying with Ki. Ki acts allways on my skill level and will never get bored. biggrin

Thanks for the answers. biggrin


Ok my next step now after i can basic manoevers, i will show to get my HOTAS ready.

There is still one question, are they usefull mods i shopudl use, and which work with the actual version of Falcon 4 bms?

i actually use the High Ress Korea Textures:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3775991/NEW_high_res_Korea_terrain_mus#Post3775991

are there more i should use and make the games mor... bether? biggrin

For example, i cant understand nato symbols, is there a mod which change them to icon-graphics of the units which replace the nato symbols so i can understand on what im looking there on the campaign map. biggrin

#3791403 - 06/03/13 05:34 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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Oh, yes, it's right there in the title, isn't it? Tired from work so things escape me.

Re: online flying --- where are you located and what times do you fly at? Best thing to do is to find a virtual squadron that is based around your particular timezone. ie, it's no use flying with USA-based squadron-mates if you're in Norway and can only fly at evenings. Luckily, there are a few squadrons that can cater to all timezones because they have a fair number of members; also, there are others that focus more on guys from a particular area (Master Arms, for instance) so there will always be something for you.

For my squadron, we fly at least once a week and spend about 3 hours (brief, fly, debrief) doing so. I also fly solo doing practice attacks, and there's the smaller SimHQ group I mentioned. So at least 3 flights a week.

Re: skill building --- if you are complaining about the "feel" of the aircraft and you have spent time in DCS A10C, the learning curve for you for BMS isn't that great compared to a guy with little-to-no sim experience. One thing you will learn quick with BMS is that the Viper goes through fuel FAST! Fuel is a big part to consider when doing missions! Another thing to learn is A-A. The Viper is a formidable A-A fighter and although you may fly a ground-attack mission, you need to be always read to drop ground ordnance and go A-A, unlike in the A-10 where you'd dive to the ground and hope you weren't seen.

Re: mods --- there's none for Falcon per se. There are theatre mods and whatnot but they are not a "must," so you can experiment at your leisure. One thing you WILL want to get is Weapon Delivery Planner to help you make data cards and configure your MFDs and countermeasures, as well as to help you with fuel calculations for each mission. Another "mod" is MFDE and Helios if you are flying with multiple monitors and want to extract gauges and MFDs to the second monitor.

Hope that helps!


- Ice
#3791549 - 06/03/13 10:48 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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There's no way to set up key modifiers like in DCS, so if you're serious about BMS, you need a proper HOTAS with lots of hats.

As for mods, i'm using new Korea textures, as mentioned
http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?14615-WIP-New-Tiles-Textures

Viper Sound Mod
http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?13362-RSM-v1-0-F-16-Viper-Sound-mod-Release

HUD mod. It makes hud symbology visible only in the projection circle, not in the whole hud glass.
http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7941-Hud-projection-mod

And Korea 2012 theater. Will become much more useful when the FA18 comes out, but still fun to play with.
http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showt...ght=carrier+war

There are all easy copy-paste "installations". Always backup the originals.

#3791721 - 06/04/13 05:49 AM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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My problem is, i have short thumbs. With the Warthog, i have problems reaching the rifle-button without moving the stick and break of the attack run. And i dont like the Saitek Sticks it feels really sheep. I love the Thrustmaster T.Flight, its perfect for my hands. biggrin

I try to find out a software for emulating keypboard commands with a stick. This should work i think. biggrin

@Ice
Thanks for your efforts, but thought a lot about this and i want fly alone. smile

i actuall i work trough the basic handling and navigations actual on the quest to get to a specific time to a specific position. This is a lot of more important in Falcon than in dcs i think. biggrin

After that i want to learn to refuel in the air.

I like to learn a plane in realisic way. First lern to fly the plane in all situations, than to fight with them. biggrin

And thank for the mods i will try them. smile

#3791735 - 06/04/13 07:28 AM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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BTW if you want realism, the default sounds with recommended settings are more realistic than that sound mod.

#3791859 - 06/04/13 02:34 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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I like the HUD Mod. biggrin

But the Sound mod hmm is a litle bit to loud for me.

isthere a mod for getting a body, legs and Hands on Throttle and stick? I sont like it beeing a ghost in a cockpit. It would be very cool if there are the legs with the writeboards like the screens in original falcon 4.0 smile

#3791896 - 06/04/13 04:26 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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There is http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7091-Pilot-model-fo-F-16 -


but if you use TrackIR the legs (used to) block the view of certain controls.


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#3791942 - 06/04/13 06:04 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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I have medium hands, and I find myself on two "stages" when flying with the WH. The first stage is when I am just relaxed and flying, and have my hands resting on the base/palm support of the stick. My thumb can reach the TMS and DMS switches with no problem, but not the pickle or trim. Second stage is when I am "at work, and I bring my hand up so that my thumb can reach all hats.

larkis, I'm not trying to force you into MP flying, but just giving you a picture of the "other side" so that you can decide for yourself. I won't question your reasons for wanting to fly alone and wish you luck!

Re: TOT, this is very important in the Real World and in BMS single player --- your mission success or failure may often be determined by whether you were on time, on target.

Re: learning, forgive me for saying this, but your learning will be boosted 10x or more if you fly MP with people who can teach you. Your other option would be to watch YT videos, such as that for A-A refueling, so that you have a "sight picture" of what you want to achieve.

Re: body mod, I would not recommend it. It blocks a few key switches and IMHO looks out of place. In fact, I would recommend **NO MODS** for now until you have a handle on the aircraft and how to fight in it.


- Ice
#3793199 - 06/07/13 07:00 AM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
I have medium hands, and I find myself on two "stages" when flying with the WH. The first stage is when I am just relaxed and flying, and have my hands resting on the base/palm support of the stick. My thumb can reach the TMS and DMS switches with no problem, but not the pickle or trim. Second stage is when I am "at work, and I bring my hand up so that my thumb can reach all hats.


Thahts like i fly with the Warthog-Stick but for me it was not very kompfortable. i still like it handle the Stick the normal way. biggrin

Originally Posted By: - Ice

larkis, I'm not trying to force you into MP flying, but just giving you a picture of the "other side" so that you can decide for yourself. I won't question your reasons for wanting to fly alone and wish you luck!


Re: learning, forgive me for saying this, but your learning will be boosted 10x or more if you fly MP with people who can teach you. Your other option would be to watch YT videos, such as that for A-A refueling, so that you have a "sight picture" of what you want to achieve.


The point is, i still fyl a long time the DCS10A in Multiplayer with a wing which teached me how to use the plane. i know in some options its much bether fly in Mp to learn the plane. But this was in the End not komfortable for me.


Originally Posted By: - Ice

Re: TOT, this is very important in the Real World and in BMS single player --- your mission success or failure may often be determined by whether you were on time, on target.


I hope so. biggrin Mostly in Cs i can wait hours of hours with the takeoff, cause the trigger first starts when im fence in. I dont like it. :P

Originally Posted By: - Ice

Re: body mod, I would not recommend it. It blocks a few key switches and IMHO looks out of place. In fact, I would recommend **NO MODS** for now until you have a handle on the aircraft and how to fight in it.


Actually i only try sounds and graphic mods, no mods which changing gameplay. But the the Body, i use TrackIR 5 Pro with 6 Degrees of Freedom. biggrin So when i can see a switch, i look to the side. and know see them. biggrin

IMo, i hate it to be a ghost in a plane. it destroy a lot of atmosphere not seeing my legs. Bad textured and animates lgs for me are much bether then no legs and this wierd ghost feeling.

#3794134 - 06/09/13 10:53 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
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Originally Posted By: larkis
The point is, i still fyl a long time the DCS10A in Multiplayer with a wing which teached me how to use the plane. i know in some options its much bether fly in Mp to learn the plane. But this was in the End not komfortable for me.


To be honest, DCS was easier to learn simply because of the "interactive" tutorial. I do not know what your skill level is with BMS, but if you needed a wing to help you in DCS A10C, you may want to consider one for BMS as well. Why? Simply because in terms of documentation, BMS is very fragmented. The old manuals are still good for theory-learning, but not for how to actually operate the sim or the jet. For example, it will tell you to operate this [switch] by using this [key combination] --- that key combination may very well not work in BMS and unless you know where the [switch] is, it can get frustrating. Also, while BMS has loads of tutorial TEs, help or documentation for them is scarce, if any. Some TEs, like the rampstart TE, is very good, but the rest are not of the same level, not even close.

As for the virtual squadrons, I've found that a Falcon squadron is much tighter-run than a Warthog squadron. When I flew the A10, we would just connect, startup, and fly, with the briefing done very briefly either during startup or enroute. The mission itself can take 2-4 hours. In BMS, my squadron can take up to 30 minutes or more just to brief, then we fly for 1.5 hours, then debrief. The point is, any adverse effects or any "uncomfortable feeling" you may have taken from your DCS squadron does not necessarily apply to all squadrons, much less a BMS squadron.

Some people also think that joining a squadron is a "commitment" and I guess it is --- you commit to join the squadron and abide by their rules and fly more-or-less according to their SOPs. However, any mature squadron will understand that we desktop pilots have lives and sometimes have to drop out of simming to attend to real-life matters, so as far as "commitment to fly each and every week," I guess that's how it was in the early days (I knew of a few squadrons that had me addressing every "officer" as "sir") but that should no longer be the case for squadrons who've been around for some time.

Again, I am not trying to recruit you or anything like that but I am simply telling you my experience as a member of a very good squadron. I very strongly encourage you to join one, but in the end, it is always up to you. Not all squadrons are equal, as you know, so don't let a "bad experience" from one group limit your entire multiplayer experience. Flight sims, especially Falcon, are 1,000,000x better in MP.


Originally Posted By: larkis
I hope so. biggrin Mostly in Cs i can wait hours of hours with the takeoff, cause the trigger first starts when im fence in. I dont like it. :P

No idea what you said there...


Originally Posted By: larkis
IMo, i hate it to be a ghost in a plane. it destroy a lot of atmosphere not seeing my legs. Bad textured and animates lgs for me are much bether then no legs and this wierd ghost feeling.

I know what you are saying, but if you play this sim right, you will not "see" your legs --- you will be too busy looking outside or at your MFDs/HUD. Some people complain about the ugly terrain, especially Korea, some people complain about the "fuzzy" shadows in the pit, some people complain about the delay in the proper flight surfaces moving. If you have time to worry about these, then I think you are not playing Falcon correctly --- I am too busy searching for threats and staying in formation to notice whether the terrain has 10 3D buildings or 100 3D buildings. I am too busy dogfighting and keeping tally/padlock to worry about the fuzzy shadows in the pit. I am too busy flying and fighting in the Viper to notice any delay in the flight surface movement.

When I "look down" on my instrument panel (my touchscreen monitor), I actually see my legs, my own legs. I also operate the entire cockpit's set of switches and knobs from my touchscreen monitor so I guess with me focusing on that instead of "looking around" in the pit, that makes it a different situation for myself vs. others.


- Ice
#3794154 - 06/09/13 11:50 PM Re: New to Falcon 4.0 BMS - lots of Questions [Re: larkis]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,599
Frederf Offline
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Frederf  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,599
Instruction from a live person I think is the fastest but it is very OK if you want to learn it solo. Most of my learning was by myself. It took a long time with lots of reading. My tactics aren't strong but my systems knowledge is sufficient. Once educated I think flying with other people is many times more enjoyable than the best singleplayer experience.

Body in plane is whatever you like. I like it too but I don't have a strong opinion. Most of the time my brain is thinking outside so legs or no legs I don't notice too much.


Moderated by  RacerGT 

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