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#3767126 - 04/13/13 12:02 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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but there lies the RUB AGAIN!. The best east/west equipment/gear historical proxy/regional conflict..... 1973 Yom Yippear war. LOL At least there everybody worth anything knows about it. biggrin Pakistan VS India.... I mean theres plenty of em. Gravi should just give in an do stupid nato warsaw pact fanatsy war. frown

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#3767133 - 04/13/13 12:36 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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Originally Posted By: Dane49
Yet,both NATO and the Warsaw Pact Alliance spent billions of dollars in tactical training maneuvers over the course of the cold war era in anticipation of the very same conflict you consider fantasy.


Yes, that is what made the fact of WWIII type of war unreal and this setting is fantasy.


As we know the best criterion of truth is practice.

For example for new DLC:
Was the war in Afghanistan with the Soviet Union? Yes
Whether to support from the Iranian theocrats for bandits in Afghanistan? Yes

Accepted by practice - this setting is based on real story.

Was the war between the WP and of NATO in Europe? No
Will there ever be? No

Not accepted by practice - WWIII setting is totally fantasy.



Last edited by andrey12345; 04/13/13 12:36 PM.
#3767136 - 04/13/13 12:47 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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I personally wouldn't be offended by seeing a fantasy type Warsaw Pact vs NATO type DLC but without the nukes though.

I think what most of us would like is something semi plausible that pits the best against the best that doesn't involve some proxy 3rd world countrys' cold war warriors.Sure NATO vs Warsaw Pact is probably pure fantasy,but I think most of us except maybe your purist tunnel vision types have all fantasized about what it would be like to game that situation and think it would be fun and fun games sell.

I think most of us who share an interest in seeing a NATO vs Warsaw Pact type campaign battle aren't interested in how this conflict would play out on the world stage at the political and strategic level but are only interested in it from a tactical stand point of view.

Now if it's purely a cost vs sales and profit thing,then fine I think I can swallow that more than since it didn't and most likely couldn't happen then it shouldn't happen in a game of this type.

Last edited by Dane49; 04/13/13 01:39 PM.
#3767155 - 04/13/13 01:55 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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Originally Posted By: Dane49
I think most of us who share an interest in seeing a NATO vs Warsaw Pact type campaign battle aren't interested in how this conflict would play out on the world stage at the political and strategic level but are only interested in it from a tactical stand point of view.


May be, but I think it is clear that it will be exactly like elves against orcs or space marines against chaos. Especially with a lot of games already released in which you can try and make sure.

I wonder why no one else is interested as if such tanks will be placed in space? It's also so interesting and entertaining, even may be interesting than WW3 copter

Originally Posted By: Dane49

Now if it's purely a cost vs sales and profit thing,then fine I think I can swallow that more than since it didn't and most likely couldn't happen then it shouldn't happen in a game of this type.


If things go really bad, so we make some sort of crap. Have no doubt smile

#3767159 - 04/13/13 02:11 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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OK,

Graviteam isn't interested in making a DLC about NATO vs Warsaw Pact.

Proxy Cold Wars only.

I thought it would be interesting and fun to simulate a tactical confrontation between NATO and Warsaw Pact forces without the Orcs and Space Nazis or Martians.

But it seems pointless to continue beating a dead horse here on this subject. deadhorse

#3767160 - 04/13/13 02:16 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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Originally Posted By: Dane49
But it seems pointless to continue beating a dead horse here on this subject. deadhorse


This is better smile icon over all SimHQ smile

#3767251 - 04/13/13 07:03 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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then make georgian 2008 DLC! reading

#3767461 - 04/14/13 11:58 AM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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Like Dane49 said it's deadhorse and the dead horse is definitely SABoW. Steam Greenlight project is on life support, UIG still not talking to GRAVITEAM and UIG has taken down any reference to SABoW on their website. Unless someone figures out how to crack this nut (legally of course) then it is what it is, an interesting look at what GRAVITEAM had the potential to do with this title if the publishers wanted it so.
R.I.P SABoW frown


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3767554 - 04/14/13 05:51 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: godzilla1985]  
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Originally Posted By: godzilla1985
Like Dane49 said it's deadhorse and the dead horse is definitely SABoW. Steam Greenlight project is on life support, UIG still not talking to GRAVITEAM and UIG has taken down any reference to SABoW on their website. Unless someone figures out how to crack this nut (legally of course) then it is what it is, an interesting look at what GRAVITEAM had the potential to do with this title if the publishers wanted it so.
R.I.P SABoW frown


Grenlight it is initially loterry without win. UIG (and ND) is a little bit strange publishers, yes.
But all that is being done - for the better rofl

T-72 BoF was supposed to be the wargame in the setting of World War II. But became arcade tank simulator in the semi-fantastic setting. Now everything is back as it should be burnout

Last edited by andrey12345; 04/14/13 05:52 PM.
#3767563 - 04/14/13 06:08 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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I think of sabow as test bed now. I loved the title....it got the shaft. But everything in place for super duper ww2 sim IMO.... NO BAD PUBLISHERS PLS>

GTOS with DLC's all over shows the way how could be done with a new tank sim.......ER VEHICLE SIM dear gawd PLEASE!.... BAse game.... DLC's of campaigns and vehicles etc...etc... With official thrid party support of talented makers of stuff to get a little chump change lol.... Ok the last is just a wish of mine.

maybe off shoot of meus game? but all that would be off in future somewhere if ever.. Of course graviteam would have to make that decision. It is gamble (again) as they keep getting stung with tank sims.

Last edited by FlashBurn; 04/14/13 06:14 PM.
#3768248 - 04/16/13 01:01 AM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: andrey12345]  
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Originally Posted By: andrey12345
Originally Posted By: godzilla1985
Like Dane49 said it's deadhorse and the dead horse is definitely SABoW. Steam Greenlight project is on life support, UIG still not talking to GRAVITEAM and UIG has taken down any reference to SABoW on their website. Unless someone figures out how to crack this nut (legally of course) then it is what it is, an interesting look at what GRAVITEAM had the potential to do with this title if the publishers wanted it so.
R.I.P SABoW frown


Grenlight it is initially loterry without win. UIG (and ND) is a little bit strange publishers, yes.
But all that is being done - for the better rofl

T-72 BoF was supposed to be the wargame in the setting of World War II. But became arcade tank simulator in the semi-fantastic setting. Now everything is back as it should be burnout


No offense Andrey but take it from someone who has grown up in probably the most market driven society the world has ever known and has a more then casual background in Marketing & Sales. So it's real easy for myself to understand what a boon getting SABoW Greenlighted on Steam could have meant to GRAVITEAM. You consider it a lottery and you might well be correct, but take it from me comrade it's definitely one lottery too approach with a winning attitude and one you pull out all the big guns to be successful in. UIG understood the benefits of getting SABoW on Steam ($$$$) but understood very little else. UIG's lackluster presentation of SABoW on Steam Greenlight was a train wreck. It showed poor preparation, product knowledge, was very amateurish production wise and worst of all it showed a game with bugs. Showing bugs in a game presentation to generate product interest and sales (while honest) is the ultimate no-no in marketing, showing bugs in a game that have been addressed long ago is just stupid marketing. Not including some new videos like the ones we all saw prelaunch was another major blunder by UIG. Many of those videos had everything you want to present to a customer, stirring videos with a soundtrack that heightened the tension you were viewing. Presenting a boring game video is like the kiss of death. We won't talk about the poor sap who did the narration/game play since in his defense he probably only had like 15 minutes to play SABoW before he had to make the video.

I have to confess I'm a little lost by your last comment that "Now everything is back as it should be". Can you elaborate? Not to be condescending or disrespectful Andrey but all I see is a WW2 tank simulator that came out in 2008 that would have died a quick death if GRAVITEAM didn't have the forethought to put a mission/map editor in it and make it modable. An 1980's armor simulator released about a year and a half ago that is pretty much dead without some DLC's or some major break through in the modding front. So I have to ask how does everything is back as it should be benefit those that want armor simulators?
cheers

P.S. My apologies to Dane49 for hijacking his thread, I will stop now I promise duck


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3768330 - 04/16/13 06:16 AM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: godzilla1985]  
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Originally Posted By: godzilla1985

... It showed poor preparation, product knowledge, was very amateurish production wise and worst of all it showed a game with bugs. Showing bugs in a game presentation to generate product interest and sales (while honest) is the ultimate no-no in marketing, showing bugs in a game that have been addressed long ago is just stupid marketing. Not including some new videos like the ones we all saw prelaunch was another major blunder by UIG. Many of those videos had everything you want to present to a customer, stirring videos with a soundtrack that heightened the tension you were viewing. Presenting a boring game video is like the kiss of death. We won't talk about the poor sap who did the narration/game play since in his defense he probably only had like 15 minutes to play SABoW before he had to make the video.

I fully agree with you, but we do not have rights to change anything for this particular game.
Moreover, in this lottery winning games that are even more bizarre presentation than the SABOW. There's also not choose the game on some objective basis, so the videos can be completely arbitrary.

Originally Posted By: godzilla1985

I have to confess I'm a little lost by your last comment that "Now everything is back as it should be". Can you elaborate? Not to be condescending or disrespectful Andrey but all I see is a WW2 tank simulator that came out in 2008 that would have died a quick death if GRAVITEAM didn't have the forethought to put a mission/map editor in it and make it modable. An 1980's armor simulator released about a year and a half ago that is pretty much dead without some DLC's or some major break through in the modding front. So I have to ask how does everything is back as it should be benefit those that want armor simulators?

I said that we had originally planned to do wargames, before beginning work on the T-72 BoF, but it turned out that tanksims. And now we can see that about wargames it had the right plans, but make tank simulators is not right.

#3768359 - 04/16/13 09:45 AM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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Understood and thank you for the clarification andrey.
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3768493 - 04/16/13 03:36 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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Its a real shame that SaBow went the way it did.

Regarding the new DLC: It is not just hypothetical - it is pure fantasy. We are talking command and conquer Red Alert-style alternative world here: Einstein travels back in time to kill Hitler, which leads to a different 2nd World War in the 50s, where the Soviets invade Europe. Does anybody travel back in time to assassinate Saddam too? ar15

At least when Il-2 46s rewrote the in-game history, it was so that we could fly experimental planes. Here we just get the same type of units paired against each other.

Imho, this DLC detracts from what you guys have been doing so far, namely bringing us little known (but real) wars and battles, well researched and with lots of attention to detail.




Last edited by ramas; 04/16/13 03:49 PM.
#3768499 - 04/16/13 03:43 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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When you say "the new DLC" are you referring to Operation Hooper?

#3768554 - 04/16/13 05:20 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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Quote:
When you say "the new DLC" are you referring to Operation Hooper?


No,
Shield of the Prophet-Afghanistan 1979,Iran vs the Soviet Army


http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=11129.0

If you overlook the fact that the units represent Russians and Iranians.You basically have about some of the same weapons that fought in the Sinai and Golan Heights in 1973,lots of potential for simulating the Arab vs Israeli war-Yom Kippur 1973.

Last edited by Dane49; 04/16/13 05:26 PM.
#3768560 - 04/16/13 05:30 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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Quote:
Imho, this DLC detracts from what you guys have been doing so far, namely bringing us little known (but real) wars and battles, well researched and with lots of attention to detail.


Don't know about that.

What your getting in these games are the Russian version of those events.

#3768574 - 04/16/13 05:51 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: Dane49]  
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Originally Posted By: Dane49
Quote:
Imho, this DLC detracts from what you guys have been doing so far, namely bringing us little known (but real) wars and battles, well researched and with lots of attention to detail.


Don't know about that.

What your getting in these games are the Russian version of those events.



Yip, .. that would certainly explain the Cuban/Angolan/Russian bias in Operation Hooper. hahaha

I think they've modelled their 'hypothetical' version of events. xwing

I was so looking forward to Hooper, .. but, have stopped playing it now. Pointless .. banghead

Anyhoo, .. let's see what they dream up next .. jawdrop

Love their stuff, .. bought SABOW, .. loved it, .. then bought all the APOS stuff, more to support them, than to play .. as I have no interest in the Eastern Front. sleepy


Cheers
Tom


He Who Will Not Risk Cannot Win.
#3768575 - 04/16/13 05:51 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: ramas]  
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Originally Posted By: ramas
Its a real shame that SaBow went the way it did.

Regarding the new DLC: It is not just hypothetical - it is pure fantasy. We are talking command and conquer Red Alert-style alternative world here: Einstein travels back in time to kill Hitler, which leads to a different 2nd World War in the 50s, where the Soviets invade Europe. Does anybody travel back in time to assassinate Saddam too? ar15


It was in _reality_, I wrote above - Iranians staged riots in Afghanistan, and there were large-scale fighting in 1979. In the DLC made only a small assumption that they do it openly, not secretly. Prehistory only gives an options when the conditions for it to be the most favorable.

Last edited by andrey12345; 04/16/13 05:52 PM.
#3768584 - 04/16/13 06:04 PM Re: Next Modern DLC for GTOS [Re: ramas]  
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Originally Posted By: ramas

Imho, this DLC detracts from what you guys have been doing so far, namely bringing us little known (but real) wars and battles, well researched and with lots of attention to detail.


I wrote above that all DLC for GTOS will be different:
1) Hi-res texture pack - released
2) Op Hooper - WWII style with automatic weapons and bush with realistic setting - released
3) Shield of the Prophet - WWIII style combat in desert with military fiction setting - beta testing
4) The two superpowers are fighting in the mountains w/o heavy weapons in very realistic setting - in development
5) High realistic spherical tanks in vacuum - in development

All except (3) in realistic setting

Last edited by andrey12345; 04/16/13 06:06 PM.
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