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#3757950 - 03/26/13 06:59 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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I-RAN
Hmmm... Here is basic question .... Why gecko designer creted elevtion/range indicator for gecho ? Wht is the logical reason for this decision ?
For example GANEF is movable and use comand guided method for attack like gecko .... So why them use new element as new indicator inside the gecko ? And why we do not have it in GANEF ?

For recieve high accurecy ?

Last edited by farokh; 03/26/13 07:20 PM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3757997 - 03/26/13 07:56 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: farokh]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: farokh
Hmmm... Here is basic question .... Why gecko designer creted elevtion/range indicator for gecho ? Wht is the logical reason for this decision ?
For example GANEF is movable and use comand guided method for attack like gecko .... So why them use new element as new indicator inside the gecko ? And why we do not have it in GANEF ?

For recieve high accurecy ?


The KRUG IPP indicator displays the SNR beams only, while the OSA has SOC azimuth/range indicator.
(no place left for the elevation information, as the OSA SOC azimuth/range indicator is closer to the P-18 at the Volhov)


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3758179 - 03/27/13 07:15 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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So .... You meant was gecho soc do not work like p-40 mechnism ? We cant choose the target and sort it to the scc ?
Like sa-4 tracking mechanism .... choose target from p-40 indicator and sort it with one click to the IPP indicator ?

#3758649 - 03/28/13 02:16 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Sim Offline
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Hpasp,

I heard this is not a 360 turret. How does it operate or what are it's limitation?

#3758718 - 03/28/13 08:13 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: farokh]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: farokh
So .... You meant was gecho soc do not work like p-40 mechnism ? We cant choose the target and sort it to the scc ?
Like sa-4 tracking mechanism .... choose target from p-40 indicator and sort it with one click to the IPP indicator ?


As I mentioned earlier, the OSA SOC azimuth/range indicator is closer to the P-18 indicator of the Volhov.

While the SOC is rotating 33/min, the SSC line can be rotated (aimed) on the target in azimuth, just like the perebros line at the P-18.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3758719 - 03/28/13 08:15 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Sim]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sim
Hpasp,

I heard this is not a 360 turret. How does it operate or what are it's limitation?


330 it is electronically limited, not like the KRUG, where you can kill the system by over-rotating.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3759645 - 03/29/13 09:13 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: farokh]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: farokh
Dear hpasp.... Do u have any scenarios for gecko ? In real world how many aircraft at what war killed or hited by gecho ?


Those are very good questions that I would also like to know the answer.


Thanks in advance for replies...

#3759651 - 03/29/13 09:26 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: ricnunes]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: farokh
Dear hpasp.... Do u have any scenarios for gecko ? In real world how many aircraft at what war killed or hited by gecho ?


Those are very good questions that I would also like to know the answer.


Thanks in advance for replies...


The 9K33M2 OSA-AK was exported from 1980.

Inside of the WarPact...

GDR (East Germany) - two regiments
1984 FRR-8 in Schwerin
1987 FRR-11 in Weienfels

Czechoslovakia - one regiment
1984 5. protiletadlov pluk atec

Romania - two regiments
1989

Poland - four regiments
1980 8 pplot in Koszalin
1982 4 pplot in Czerwinsk
1984 124 pplot in Szczecin
1987 69 pplot in Leszna

Bulgaria - two regiments
1982 50 regiment Boyanovo
1988 49 regiment Blagoevgrad

Hungary - never fielded
nope

Outside of the WarPact, Syria '82, Angola '83 & '87~88, Libya '86, and Iraq '91 are the countries, where it was fielded in wartime situation, during the Cold War.

Here is some Easter Egg patch...
http://www.mediafire.com/?2aavi4919229t7d

Last edited by Hpasp; 04/05/13 07:06 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3759900 - 03/30/13 10:32 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Last edited by piston79; 03/30/13 12:29 PM.
#3759906 - 03/30/13 11:07 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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I-RAN
Hpasp , would u introduce sa-8 ashuluk targets ? We will have meteor or something else ?

#3759909 - 03/30/13 11:29 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Thanks for the reply Hpasp.

BTW, are there any confirm kills (by the SA-8) in any of those conflicts?


Looking into the list of conflicts, IMO the most interesting of those conflicts that could be modeled in SAM simulator would (again IMO) be 1991 Iraq (Desert Storm). Not only would allow a realistic SA-8 modeling but we could also have other SAMs (and Air Defence units) that are already modeled in SAM Simulator. Those SAMs would be the SA-2E, SA-3 and Shilka - And by the way, there are confirmed kills by the SA-2E and SA-3 (and also Shilka if I'm not mistaken) during Desert Storm.
Resuming, I'm requesting a Desert Storm scenario for SAM Simulator wink

#3759967 - 03/30/13 03:03 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Upper: Time in seconds
Lower" Distance in meters:


Last edited by piston79; 03/30/13 05:27 PM.
#3759999 - 03/30/13 05:18 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Great, Chinese! neaner

#3760008 - 03/30/13 05:38 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3760018 - 03/30/13 05:51 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: ricnunes]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: farokh
Dear hpasp.... Do u have any scenarios for gecko ? In real world how many aircraft at what war killed or hited by gecho ?

Those are very good questions that I would also like to know the answer.
Thanks in advance for replies...


The General scenarios will be available for OSA also.
Currently Im learning about the Angola-South Africa War, where...
Operation Askari
Operation Modular
Operation Hooper
Operation Packer
...was fought between FAPLA-CUBAN-SOVIET against SADF-UNITA.

OSA was fielded in these bush-wars, and there are some reports of shooting some SAAF planes.
(I take these reports with a grain of salt...)

At the Bekaa valley, OSA shot some IDF planes, but this should be further investigated.

Ashuluk, and Ustka should be available for the OSA.

Desert Storm is a War, I would love to include into SAMSIM, just I not seen any air-war maps...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3760020 - 03/30/13 06:00 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Upper: Time in seconds
Lower" Distance in meters:




Hmmm, where did you get it?

The 9M33M2 missile speed is heavily depending on the overload, the missile should pull.
Generally the booster part of the engine accelerates it into 500m/s (Mach1.5) right after launch.
The big difference from the earlier SAM systems (used to over accelerate), is that the sustainer is keeping this speed over most of the flight envelope.
If the target maneuvers hard, than the 9M33M2 would follow it, and its speed could drop till 100m/s depending on the required overload.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3760023 - 03/30/13 06:14 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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My main question is still open to everyone...
... how do you like the new '80s white Soviet SAM panel design, compared to the earlier silver/blue one?



In my feeling, the OSA is the first Soviet SAM system where Man-Machine-Interface was considered during the design at least.
Most of the indicators and switches are in logical order, compared to the SA-2/3 designs, where developers put switches in places, just because there were empty place on that instrument...
biggrin

Last edited by Hpasp; 03/30/13 06:31 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3760030 - 03/30/13 06:30 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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I like this new design more, at least it looks modern and clean :-)

#3760041 - 03/30/13 07:03 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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montieris Offline
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baltics

Yes, this is good design..
biggrin

#3760065 - 03/30/13 08:20 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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ricnunes Offline
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ricnunes  Offline
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Portugal
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

At the Bekaa valley, OSA shot some IDF planes, but this should be further investigated.


Acording to everything that I read about the 1982 Bekaa Valley operations (Operation Mole Cricket) NO IDF fixed-wing aircraft seem to have been shot down.

Nevertheless the Angola-South Africa scenarios seems promissing!

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