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#3756633 - 03/24/13 07:03 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Mdore Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp




Wow, that's a lot of electronics. Much more than I would have guessed.

Why so much?

It's command guided, so no complex sensors. And proximity fuses can fit in a 40mm shell, so that shouldn't take much room.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3756639 - 03/24/13 07:58 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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I-RAN
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
Hmmm... i read about missile range .... impossible eek2 15km missile range ?

this missile is really smal for flying till 15 km ...


Where???

The 9M33M2 missile has...
- 1,5 .. 10,3km range
- 25 .. 5000m altitude
- 500m/s (Mach1.5) maximum target speed.


here wrote max range is 15000m and alt is 12000m
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-8.htm

also here wrote about first variant range is 12000km and for m3 version 15000m range !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K33_Osa

also here
Specifications (9M33[3])
Weight 170 kg
Length 3158 mm
Diameter 209.6 mm
Warhead Frag-HE
Warhead weight 16 kg
Detonation
mechanism Contact and proximity
Propellant Solid propellant rocket motor
Operational
range 15 kilometres (9.3 mi)
Flight altitude 12,000 metres (39,000 ft)
Boost time 2 s boost, then 15 s sustain
Speed 1020 m/s
Guidance
system RF CLOS
Steering
system dual-thrust rocket motor.
Accuracy 5 m
Launch
platform 9P35M2

Last edited by farokh; 03/24/13 08:03 AM.
#3756659 - 03/24/13 10:27 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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I would rather trust the official operations manual, than Wiki or FAS...
biggrin
... but here are some better websites.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-9K33-Osa.html
http://www.rwd-mb3.de/pages/9k33.htm
http://www.flak11.de/9K33-Start.htm
http://www.rta-4.de/rakete.html



Last edited by Hpasp; 03/24/13 10:36 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3756707 - 03/24/13 01:42 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) workplace...



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3756709 - 03/24/13 01:50 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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Dear hpasp.... Do u have any scenarios for gecko ? In real world how many aircraft at what war killed or hited by gecho ?

#3756710 - 03/24/13 01:51 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Wow, great! Osa will be a perfect addition! thumbsup

#3756771 - 03/24/13 04:16 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Lieste Offline
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Perhaps the discrepancy in range relates to maximum kinematic vs effective engagement envelope, possibly limited by battery life or other consumables as well as by energy state and manoeuvrability.

#3756796 - 03/24/13 05:04 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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wow white panel is very sexy .

hpasp would u want introduce the fire switch to us ?
biggrin

also one more thing sir :
i see how KUB operators can lock on target .... so locking on target by Gecho near close to Kub or Gecko is different ?

#3756801 - 03/24/13 05:11 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Lieste]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Perhaps the discrepancy in range relates to maximum kinematic vs effective engagement envelope, possibly limited by battery life or other consumables as well as by energy state and manoeuvrability.

Nope, it relates to sharing of incorrect information.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3756802 - 03/24/13 05:13 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: farokh]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: farokh
wow white panel is very sexy .

hpasp would u want introduce the fire switch to us ?
biggrin


Pretty easy...
... look for a RED button, with the label of PUSK.
biggrin


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3756835 - 03/24/13 06:43 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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deleted...

Last edited by piston79; 03/24/13 09:02 PM.
#3756855 - 03/24/13 07:44 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: piston79]  
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farokh Offline
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Let's see if Faroukh could generate 20+ pages with trash talking in this topic until SA-8B introduction in SAMsim... banghead


Dear firend .... Please be carful and understand me and the other side i must say us .... and who loves sam systems ... All of us check this froum for learn about new systems and ask. The questions during next system... And im sure with my basic questions never ever generate any page about any system. So please take it easy and get deep breathe and bee cool till another sam lovers say another basic questions

...also do not forget why we did registered at this froum. Please

Last edited by farokh; 03/24/13 07:54 PM.
#3757421 - 03/25/13 07:06 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Dear All,

OSA SIM will not arrive, at least until the end of 2013, at its best.
Currently Im learning its operation and capabilities, and designing the SIM screens.

Im happy to answer questions about this remarkable system (last single digit SAM), while Im still building up my knowledge.
thumbsup

Originally it was planned as a cheap alternative system to the KUB, having full autonomous operation per vehicle.
When the KUB become available during the 70's, it was fielded in the WarPact at both tank/mechanized divisions.

At last, when the OSA become available in the 80's, WarPact armies started to swap the more expensive KUB regiments with the OSA!!!
(GDR - 2 regiments, Czechoslovakia - 1 regiment, Hungary - never fielded)
The reason was that a KUB regiment had only 5 target channel, utilizing 25 tracked vehicles...
... on the other side, the OSA regiment had 20 target channel (4x of a KUB) with 20 wheeled vehicles.



Last edited by Hpasp; 03/25/13 07:34 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3757425 - 03/25/13 07:16 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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I have a little idea here, regarding the simulation of PU-12 command post. Normally, it would issue target designations to its subordinating SAMs and ZSUs by the voice via radio. As simulating this would be too cumbersome for SAM Sim, I was thinking about issuing them in text form. At plotting board you would select the desired target as you do now with IADS, but instead of automatic traget designation, you would receive guidance in text form, something like "azimuth 270, distance 32, altitude 6", with the same interval as with the real PU-12. I think this would be interesting.

#3757683 - 03/26/13 04:34 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Mdore Offline
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Could you roughly describe the procedure to shoot down a target with the SA-8?

It doesn't have a separate a target designating radar like the SA-4, so are targets found like the ZSU-23-4?

Then just lock angle, lock range, and fire a missile or two?

#3757707 - 03/26/13 06:17 AM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) workplace...



dear hpasp.... i see somthing different in this pannels and i never ever seen like it at any samsim systems !
please check the rightest panel ... i see somthing yellow circle biggrin .... what is it ?

usually in our systems we had one tracking scope and one range finder biggrin ... i guess we will meet something different system in future popcorn


Last edited by farokh; 03/26/13 06:19 AM.
#3757766 - 03/26/13 12:00 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Mdore]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mdore
Could you roughly describe the procedure to shoot down a target with the SA-8?
It doesn't have a separate a target designating radar like the SA-4, so are targets found like the ZSU-23-4?
Then just lock angle, lock range, and fire a missile or two?


The 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B) turret is quite complex, so first we need to understand it.



1, SOC (Target Acquisition Radar) has three elevation beams (contrary to the 4 elevation beams of the 1S12 [Long Track]).
Range options: 0-15km (against choppers), 0-35km, 10-45km
33 rotation per min.
2, NRZ (IFF)
3, SSC (mono-pulse, pencil beam Target Tracking Radar), with a range of 28km.
4, SVR (Missile Tracking Radar - Narrow Beam)
5, SPK (Missile Command Transmitter antenna)
6, SVR (Missile Tracking Radar - Wide Beam)
7, Karat Camera (Optical Target Tracking)

Last edited by Hpasp; 03/26/13 12:03 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3757769 - 03/26/13 12:14 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe


Indicators:

1, SSC range indicator.


2, SOC azimuth/range indicator.


3, TV.
4, SSC elevation/range indicator.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3757788 - 03/26/13 01:12 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: Mdore]  
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farokh Offline
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im not sure sa-8 mechanim work like sa-4 mechanism. rolleyes

Ssc elevation / range indicator is strange for me.... We dont have it till now but im sure i see something like this indicator in straight flush radar room (kub). Right hpasp?

So i guess at first step in sa-8
1. we need data from IADS
2. also find and lock on target with target acquisition scope
3. finding target elevation with scc elevation/range indicator
4. at the end locking on target range on range finder indicator
5. And PUSK ?


Oooof im confuse clapping

Last edited by farokh; 03/26/13 01:26 PM.
#3757916 - 03/26/13 05:36 PM Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) [Re: farokh]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Working stations (left - middle - right): Range Operator - Azimuth Operator - Elevation Operator

1, check on the blotting board, if the target is approached at least 50km. [Battery commander in the PU-12]
2, switch on high voltage of the SOC. [Azimuth Operator]
3, acquire the target in azimuth with the SSC boresight line displayed on the SOC azimuth/range indicator. [Azimuth Operator]
4, move the range boresight of the SSC to the target mark on the SOC azimuth/range indicator. [Range Operator]
5, switch on high voltage of the SSC. [Range Operator]
6, acquire the target in elevation on the SSC elevation/range indicator. [Elevation Operator]
7, acquire the target in range on the SSC range indicator. [Range Operator]
8, decide if we want to launch 1 or 2 missiles. [Elevation Operator]
9, when the target approaches the firing zone, missiles automatically prepared. [Elevation Operator]
10, fire 1 or 2 missiles. [Elevation Operator]

Last edited by Hpasp; 03/26/13 05:43 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
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