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#3742447 - 02/27/13 03:04 PM I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D, is this good?  
Joined: Feb 2013
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nka_ Offline
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Quebec, Canada
I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D with Force Feedback. (like this : http://www.amazon.ca/Logitech-963223-0403-Wingman-Force-3D/dp/B00004VUFH the one with a black hat on top)

I never tried another one, but I feel he's not very precise. It's me or the joystick isnt really good?

If it's not really good, I may want to change it, but I don't feel spending 500$ on a joystick as I dont play a lot. Got an idea?

I searched around a bit in this and others forums, T.16000 seems to be a great idea?

I looked at CH Products, but Stick + Throttle will bring me to 300-400$ and it's looking ugly. I this price I would prefert to get the Thrustmaster Warhog directly.

What are my options if I say under 100$ or under 200$ ?

Thanks!

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3742611 - 02/27/13 07:01 PM Re: I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D, is this good? [Re: nka_]  
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- Ice Offline
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What sims are you playing? Unfortunately, "cheaper" units naturally mean lesser components installed. If you can find anything that uses HALL sensors, that'll be great, otherwise, well, the pots will go quite quick and all you really have is a cheap paperweight.

I used to have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and it was fine for a little more than 6 months, then things started to spike and no amount of cleaning of the pots would fix it. It turned out later on that I'd be fixing it more than flying and it'd be okay but then conk out mid-flight. I've had enough of that so I invested in a Warthog. Works 100% so each time I fly, I only worry about my flying and the bad guys and I know that my HOTAS will work.... and boo-boo is due to my flying smile


- Ice
#3742750 - 02/27/13 10:15 PM Re: I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D, is this good? [Re: nka_]  
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JAMF Offline
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If you were to buy the TM T-16000M, you could use the "Force 3D" for throttle and extra buttons.

Maybe someone who uses or used the Saitek X52 Pro could give his impression of it's accuracy?

#3742809 - 02/28/13 12:38 AM Re: I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D, is this good? [Re: nka_]  
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nka_ Offline
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nka_  Offline
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Quebec, Canada
Hum... I see... as everytime, I'll finish with the 500$ kit... lol smile

I read some good about the X52, could be a good compromise.

#3743169 - 02/28/13 07:30 PM Re: I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D, is this good? [Re: nka_]  
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NamelessPFG Offline
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If it's anything like my WingMan Strike Force 3D, then the centering forces are a bit loose (lots of center play) and there's an X/Y-axis bleed problem where physically moving only one axis causes input along the other due to how the pots are coupled to the gimbals. Quite a shame, as I really liked that stick otherwise. (TWO hat switches, for a start!)

By comparison, the renowned Microsoft SideWinder Force-Feedback 2 has only the minimum of buttons, switches, and axes, but what's there is VERY solid. 10-bit X and Y axes that don't jitter at all, smooth and tight centering forces, and in general, the feel is so suitable for WWI/WWII sims and DCS: Black Shark that it still remains sought-after a whole decade after its discontinuation.

A full CH Products Fighterstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals set should go for under $200 used (I've seen 'em sell for $165 shipped and even $120 shipped before!), and while they still need to work on their ergonomics (Fighterstick digs into my palm, Pro Throttle doesn't have a lot of throw, Pro Pedals are a bit closely spaced together), the Control Manager is second to none.

Only Thrustmaster's HOTAS Cougar and Warthog systems come close in terms of driver flexibility (via the Cougar's hardware logical programming or T.A.R.G.E.T.), and that's because Bob Church used to work for TM before jumping ship to CH. Good luck getting the Cougar for under $200 these days...

The Saitek systems would be okay, but the SST and drivers are downright crippled compared to CH or TM. Need to swap the thumb slider and main throttle axes because older games insist on using that thumb slider as the throttle? Can't do it. Want the mouse mini-stick to act as DirectInput axes? Not happening. And you can forget about any advanced logical programming or scripting capabilities...

#3744406 - 03/03/13 03:50 AM Re: I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D, is this good? [Re: nka_]  
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nka_ Offline
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nka_  Offline
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Quebec, Canada
Cougar and Warthog dosent have the pedals, do they have twist handle?

I found one Cougar for about 250$ from a local. Seems a good deal! Didnt see any CH kit as now.

#3744598 - 03/03/13 06:23 PM Re: I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D, is this good? [Re: nka_]  
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NamelessPFG Offline
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Neither of them have twist-sticks. You're expected to use rudder pedals.

The Cougar has a connection on the back of the stick for gameport pedals that can be controlled and programmed directly via the Cougar hardware, but the Warthog has no such feature. You'll just have to settle for separate DirectInput IDs in the latter case, as TM currently has no T.A.R.G.E.T.-compatible USB rudder pedals. This shouldn't be a problem if you only play modern flight sims that support multiple DirectInput devices, though.

If you go with the Cougar (and $250 is a decent price for a stock one), check the usual used outlets for any TM RCS or Elite pedals, or alternatively, a set of gameport CH Pro Pedals that can easily be rewired to have the toebrakes work with the Cougar.

#3744622 - 03/03/13 07:51 PM Re: I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D, is this good? [Re: nka_]  
Joined: May 2010
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JAMF Offline
Frugalite & P-38 fan
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One could, for a while at least, use the Ant/Elev on the Cougar throttle for rudder.

#3744732 - 03/04/13 12:34 AM Re: I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D, is this good? [Re: nka_]  
Joined: Feb 2013
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nka_ Offline
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nka_  Offline
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Quebec, Canada
cool thanks, I'm getting that Cougar. I got it for 225$CAD and I pay the shipping (instant of 250$ shipping included). We have high volume deal where I work, so I'll save a few buck.

I notice those TM pedals Elite or RCS seems to go around 50-60$US. I'll try to get some, until I got them, I'll use the Ant/Elev as JAMF suggest.

I've also read a lot about the Hall upgrade. I'll wait to see if those arent working right and I'll order some part at Digikey! smile


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