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#3740617 - 02/23/13 09:55 PM Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled?  
Joined: Sep 2012
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ClosetSwede Offline
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ClosetSwede  Offline
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Posts: 11
Hi Pilots,

Pilots in real combat sometimes talk about getting to low altitude if the enemy aircraft is above them,
so the enemies aircraft's radar has a more difficult time locking on in the ground clutter. I'm not sure
if this can also confuse the heat seeking equipment too or not.

Anyway, I'm practicing enemy aircraft missile avoidance and I was wondering if it would help, in some
situations to get down low.

Thanks,

CS

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#3740660 - 02/23/13 11:14 PM Re: Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled? [Re: ClosetSwede]  
Joined: Jun 2005
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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Philippines / North East UK
Not in BMS as far as I know. Your ground radar doesn't pick up "ground clutter" except what 3D buildings are there to dot the landscape. From what I understand the radar picture would be more cluttered in RL. As for ground clutter obscuring the look-down capability of the A-A radar, well, a few days a go we were practicing BVR and A-A engagement tactics and a guy at 20K-22K altitude was able to pick me up in the mountains while I was less than 2,000 feet AGL, so I'd say no to that as well.


- Ice
#3740663 - 02/23/13 11:27 PM Re: Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled? [Re: ClosetSwede]  
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Frederf Offline
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Yes, some (older) radars are of the "look up" variety meaning they can't pick up an airborne radar target out of the ground clutter while looking downward.

I think the MiG-21 is an example.

#3741170 - 02/25/13 01:08 AM Re: Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled? [Re: - Ice]  
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ClosetSwede Offline
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Thanks,

I'm doing a lot of testing to see whats what. Fredereff said the older aircraft don't have look down capability, like the Mig-21 for example. I'm going to see if I can verify that through testing.

CS

#3741289 - 02/25/13 11:19 AM Re: Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled? [Re: ClosetSwede]  
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Kosmo. Offline
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Kosmo.  Offline
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Greece
It is modeled in Falcon but newer radar systems will not have much trouble with that.

#3741649 - 02/26/13 12:49 AM Re: Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled? [Re: Kosmo.]  
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ClosetSwede Offline
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ClosetSwede  Offline
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Posts: 11
Thanks,

I am going to do some testing against the Mig-21, and see if I can tell a difference.

CS

#3778361 - 05/06/13 07:52 PM Re: Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled? [Re: ClosetSwede]  
Joined: Apr 2013
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schnidrman Offline
Jason Schneider
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Kansas City, Missouri
Not sure in BMS, but I'm cutting my teeth on AF right now. The only advantage I have found in getting low is as follows. During an OCA Strike, I'm flying NoE as I come up on the runway (target). As I get ready to carpet bomb (CCIP) the runway at 200ft./450kts I do get some SAM launches, but they tend to go ballistic immediately or simply can't turn tight enough to get me. The drawback is all the smaller AA guns are drawing bead on you here, but I have made it back to home plate plenty of times with a few holes in the plane. Can't say I ever made it back with the tail section gone! The trick is getting low and staying low. If you pop up after pickle, you will get corn holed by a SAM, so stay @ 200ft until you get out of range of the enemy fire. This won't take long @ 450kts. It doen't hurt to drop some chaff and flares across the runway as you drop your bombs. This method is only effective against big non-moving targets like bridges, factories, and runways. Also, may I suggest you only use ordinance with a drag kit so you don't get caught in your frag pattern. One more thing, this only seems to work on the first pass. They seem to be expecting you if you come back for another run and get a better gun solution on you during the second pass.

P.S. Like I said, I am cutting my teeth, (and this is AF, not BMS) so don't be surprised if some vet comes in here and blows hole in this tactic. In fact, any input on this tactic from someone more experienced is welcome.


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#3778568 - 05/07/13 09:19 AM Re: Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled? [Re: ClosetSwede]  
Joined: Jun 2005
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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Philippines / North East UK
Works with BMS as well, and have done multiple passes on a site protected by AAA battalions. Just made sure my ingress and egress was short and I was jinking as soon as the bombs were off.

Against ground targets, they can see you against the sky I guess. It's more of when you'll be in range and if they can lead you enough for a hit.


- Ice
#4152713 - 07/31/15 09:38 PM Re: Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled? [Re: ClosetSwede]  
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CAG100 Offline
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The World
Russian radars in the MiG-21,23,25, and early 29 had severe issues with finding targets in "look down"... The MiG-31 was the first bird the Russians deployed that had a substantial "look down" capability. It was designed to pick out low flying bombers out of the ground clutter.


Retired TSH Developer/Member

Retired Contributing editor to Sim-News.com

#4152746 - 07/31/15 11:59 PM Re: Enemy Radar Ground Clutter Modelled? [Re: ClosetSwede]  
Joined: Jun 2005
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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zombie

Thread necro! Lol!


- Ice

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