#3740475 - 02/23/13 04:05 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Lieste]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
Wolfhound
Member
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Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
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Load the .GPX (or was it .KML ?) into Googleearth.
Then zoom to the layer and pan/zoom to the area of interest, stepping forwards/back to watch the progress of the aircraft/missiles.
Bear in mind that 'extreme' wiggliness seen from the launcher (or close by) is actually barely weaving when viewed from side/above ~ you should at least 'glance' at the end view before deciding how good the guidance has been.
There was a GE bug with how the elevation and speed graph was displayed (maximum greater than axes scale values), but SAMSIM is "correct", and the error lies in the external program. It the .GPX or .KML a file saved with the after action report somewhere in the SAMSIM folder. If its not too much trouble, could you elaborate on the process of transporting them to Googleearth? Thanks
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
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#3740479 - 02/23/13 04:12 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Wolfhound]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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It the .GPX or .KML a file saved with the after action report somewhere in the SAMSIM folder. If its not too much trouble, could you elaborate on the process of transporting them to Googleearth?
Thanks
Just drop it in Google Earth and remove the bottom thick...
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#3740629 - 02/23/13 10:20 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 95
CooLDoG
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 95
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file>open>(find samsim directory and click on the .gpx file)>open untick bottom box as shown.
Last edited by CooLDoG; 02/23/13 10:21 PM.
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#3740881 - 02/24/13 12:02 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Wolfhound]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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I'm using Windows XP with SAMSIM version 0.926C Ok I spent quite a bit of time testing and observing the SA-2F at the Asuluk range against the very low flying high speed FB-111 and here is what I have found. Asuluk range parameters: Missiles = 6 x V750VU 11DU Targets = 3 x RM-207M (Simulating FB-111s) launched at 1 minute intervals starting at T+00min 10sec dm, m jamming = none cm jamming = none This image shows my I-64 (Q - button) set-up. This image shows my I-62 (Z - button) set-up. NOTE:Because I'm engaging a target flying below 300m, the K3 I, II & III red lights are illuminated signifying that the radio proximity fuse for all three missile channels has been switched OFF. Leaving the radio fuses on (K3 I, II & III lights off), is supposed to confuse the missiles radio fuse as it will be flying close to the ground and most likely interference from ground clutter would cause a premature detonation. This images shows a typical missile flyout with ' K' guidance (Half Lead Elevated By Constants), with the red K3 lights. NOTE:Missile launch is at 30Km, the missiles will always initially stabilise at 3.5 to 4 degrees to the right of the radar beam, as indicated on the azimuth (Beta) display. The 3 green lamps, elevation, range and azimuth signify that auto-tracking has been initiated in all 3 dimensions. The following two images show the missile at 'end-game'. NOTE: The missile begins it's end-game intercept turn towards the target very late and as a result misses. This occurs about 90% of the time. Regardless of target azimuth motion observed on the azimuth screen and the right PAA dial (black three pronged pointer), the missiles always fly to the right of the radar beam by approximately 3.5 to 4 degrees. This occurs even if the target is moving to the left, which means the missile is not leading the target in azimuth. The following test is exactly the same as the above, but in this instance the K3 I, II & III radio fuse lamps are off indicating that the radio fuses on all three missile channels have been switched ON.This image was taken a few seconds after missile launch, which occurred at 30Km. NOTE:On this occasion the target was flying to the left which was indicated on the azimuth display and right hand PAA dial. As can be seen the missile is leading the target by flying to the left of the radar beam. Had the target been flying to the right, the missile would lead it to the right as other tests have shown. This is not the case with the radio fuse inactive (K3 red lights ON). This images shows the missile continuing it's fly-out and still leading the target. NOTE:The movement of the ground clutter to the right and the slight change of the right PAA indicator (showing 45 degrees whereas it was almost 50 degrees in the previous image above this one), illustrates the target is moving to the left. This images shows the missile a few moments before impact. Again note the ground clutter and right PAA indicator. This images shows the target and missile just after impact. The target was killed. NOTE:With the radio fuse ON (red K3 lamps OFF), 'K' guidance mode has a pK of 1.0!!! Using ' YNP' guidance (Half-Lead) with the radio fuse ON, there is a chance the missile will 'disappear' a couple of seconds after launch (perhaps being lead into the ground by the target losing altitude). If the missile survives the first couple of seconds, it will lead the target correctly and score a kill. Using ' YNP' guidance with the radio fuse OFF, there is a chance the missile will 'disappear' a couple of seconds after launch (perhaps being lead into the ground by the target losing altitude). If the missile survives the first couple of seconds, it will fly with a profile very similar to the images posted of ' K' guidance with radio fuse OFF. So it will always fly to the right of the radar beam and will not lead the target correctly. The chances of scoring a kill are extremely low. Using T/T guidance (Three-Point) with or without selecting the missile radio fuse has exactly the same effect as ' K' guidance with the radio fuse on, with the exception that the missile will fly directly line of sight on the radar beam to the target. Pk is 1.0!!! This is the most effective mode. 1) So from all of these observations and comparisons we can see that switching the missiles radio fuse OFF (red K3 lamps on) is altering the flight profile of the missiles when used in conjunction with the 'K' and 'YNP' guidance modes.
2) Ground clutter has no effect on the radio fuse regardless of target altitude.
3) Missile pK seems to be far too high, against a high speed low altitude target.
A few other points: a) Pausing the simulation doesn't pause the missiles gyro, so if you pause the sim just after selecting the 'prepare missile for launch' knob on the I-64 (Q - button) panel, after around 30 seconds (with the sim still paused) the missiles ready lamp on the I-62 (Z - panel) will illuminate.
b) The missiles appear to detonate at the range line on the elevation and azimuth scopes with the radio fuse ON, if auto-tracking is deselected in range and the range line moved downwards (closer in range than the target). If the range line is move upwards (further in range that the target), the missile will not detonate at the range line, but will pass it and disappear after a few seconds of flight. Considering the missiles are flying with active radio fuses, their proximity to the ground or a target should cause detonation, not their proximity to the range line.
c) Ground clutter doesn't seem to have an effect on target tracking. Ground clutter can make it more difficult for the user to separate a target from the background, but not the radar. If the user by chance happens to have the elevation, range or azimuth lines on a target deep behind clutter, auto-tracking can begin. Ground clutter also doesn't cause a loss of of auto-tracking (break lock).
d) 'T/T' guidance mode seems to be far too effective.Cheers Great bug-finding!!! 1, took quite a while to found, and correct. It affected UPR and K method in case of K3, with the Dvina/Volhov/Neva systems. (same code, from several years ago) 2, Still checking. (I'm pretty sure, that it was working some years ago...) 3, That target is flying in a straight path. In case of maneuvering target, Pk is much lower. (Just try the P15 in Poland, you will be surprised!) a, It was never intended. b, depending if the K3 was already emitted c, it is similar to the reality. If a target got in the clutter, by playing gain, it was usually track-able. d, T/T is the most effective method if the target is slow, and within the g limits of the missile. The 9K33M3 OSA-AKM system is only using T/T method against their targets.
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#3748513 - 03/10/13 11:52 AM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
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strange bug ! how its possible ? i launched one missile by PS "lead" method on jammer target ! but it hit and kill the target Asuluk training ground.
Practice target: RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado
S-125M1 Neva
00:00, Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado launched
+++++++++++++++++ 00:00:13, SNR ON AIR
00:00:15, SNR OFF THE AIR -----------------
+++++++++++++++++ 00:00:29, SNR ON AIR
00:01:09, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1 Target distance: 13km Target azimuth: 118° Target elevation: 0° Target altitude: 167m Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)
00:01:14, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2 Target distance: 13km Target azimuth: 121° Target elevation: 0° Target altitude: 200m Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)
00:01:29, Missile exploded on Channel-1 Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 38m)
00:01:33, Missile exploded on Channel-2 Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 4m)
02:00, Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado launched
00:03:14, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2 Target distance: 13km Target azimuth: 90° Target elevation: 0° Target altitude: 211m Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)
00:03:20, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1 Target distance: 13km Target azimuth: 90° Target elevation: 1° Target altitude: 270m Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)
00:03:35, Missile exploded on Channel-1 Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 1m)
Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 20sec twice little bug at sa-3 its about double fire switch ! as you see i mark rightest fire button switch by red mark ! i pushed it but just one missile fired ! PS: i turn up double fire switch to UP ! but its not work on rightest switch !
Last edited by farokh; 03/10/13 12:16 PM.
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#3753022 - 03/18/13 06:15 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: farokh]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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strange bug ! how its possible ? i launched one missile by PS "lead" method on jammer target ! but it hit and kill the target Asuluk training ground.
Practice target: RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado
S-125M1 Neva
00:00, Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado launched
+++++++++++++++++ 00:00:13, SNR ON AIR
00:00:15, SNR OFF THE AIR -----------------
+++++++++++++++++ 00:00:29, SNR ON AIR
00:01:09, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1 Target distance: 13km Target azimuth: 118° Target elevation: 0° Target altitude: 167m Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)
00:01:14, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2 Target distance: 13km Target azimuth: 121° Target elevation: 0° Target altitude: 200m Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)
00:01:29, Missile exploded on Channel-1 Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 38m)
00:01:33, Missile exploded on Channel-2 Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 4m)
02:00, Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado launched
00:03:14, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2 Target distance: 13km Target azimuth: 90° Target elevation: 0° Target altitude: 211m Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)
00:03:20, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1 Target distance: 13km Target azimuth: 90° Target elevation: 1° Target altitude: 270m Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)
00:03:35, Missile exploded on Channel-1 Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-1] simulating Tornado killed by SAM. (miss distance: 1m)
Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 20sec twice little bug at sa-3 its about double fire switch ! as you see i mark rightest fire button switch by red mark ! i pushed it but just one missile fired ! PS: i turn up double fire switch to UP ! but its not work on rightest switch ! As in reality. (check manual page 34/4)
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#3756899 - 03/24/13 09:27 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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It's not a bug, but it's some kind of observation... I believe that WEASELS in "Prairie Fire" does pretty awkward maneuvers, which (I am sure) are not possible for a real plane... Could - in the name of realism - be done something about? trk><name>F/A-18A Hornet No.1, VMFA-314 Black Knights</name><trkseg> <trkpt lat="32.578262" lon="20.291280"> <ele>462</ele> <time>2012-01-01T00:00:01Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="32.578001" lon="20.291280"> <ele>642</ele> <time>2012-01-01T00:00:02Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="32.577556" lon="20.291280"> <ele>822</ele> <time>2012-01-01T00:00:03Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="32.576934" lon="20.291280"> <ele>1002</ele> <time>2012-01-01T00:00:04Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="32.576129" lon="20.291280"> <ele>1174</ele> <time>2012-01-01T00:00:05Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="32.575142" lon="20.291280"> <ele>1256</ele> <time>2012-01-01T00:00:06Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="32.573976" lon="20.291280"> <ele>1284</ele> <time>2012-01-01T00:00:07Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="32.572629" lon="20.291280"> <ele>1294</ele> <time>2012-01-01T00:00:08Z</time> </trkpt> <trkpt lat="32.571102" lon="20.291280"> <ele>1298</ele> 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#3759477 - 03/29/13 03:59 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Mdore
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
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Okay, another bug.
If I track a target using the I87V for range, and guide the missiles in 1/2 lead mode, the missiles DO NOT lead the target, the missiles don't even fly a straight line, instead they trail the target.
Example, if I am tracking a target to the north of me that is going east to west <---, and I track the targets range normally, the missile flies to the left <--- of the centre line, leading the target. But if I track the target's range with I87V, the missile flies to the right ---> of the centre line!
Very odd.
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#3759498 - 03/29/13 04:30 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Mdore]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Okay, another bug.
If I track a target using the I87V for range, and guide the missiles in 1/2 lead mode, the missiles DO NOT lead the target, the missiles don't even fly a straight line, instead they trail the target.
Example, if I am tracking a target to the north of me that is going east to west <---, and I track the targets range normally, the missile flies to the left <--- of the centre line, leading the target. But if I track the target's range with I87V, the missile flies to the right ---> of the centre line!
Very odd. I think, that this bug was already reported, corrected, just not released yet... ... still waiting more to be collected.
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#3759501 - 03/29/13 04:31 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Mdore]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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I've tried a few times with the SA-2E to destroy a target without ever locking onto it. And I'm pretty sure it's impossible.
I add a target reflector in practice mode, then line the crosshairs up precisely over the target, then switch to 5km mode and make sure I'm absolutely 100% on target.
If the missile is in proximity fuse mode, the missile just flies past, never detonates.
If the missile is in command detonated mode, the missile detonates when it reaches the crosshairs, but this never damages the target.
Is this a bug, or just the way you chose to write it? Or maybe I'm not doing something right? Might be the same bug. I tried it with the new code, and with Volhov T/T - RabOtVM - auto-track on elevation - 5km display, and manually tracking the Ashuluk Radar Reflector in Azimuth, I was able to kill it. (Range bore-sight was well before the target) Asuluk training ground.
Practice target: Radar Reflector
S-75M3 Volkhov
00:00, Practice target Radar Reflector launched
+++++++++++++++++ 00:00:06, SNR ON AIR
00:00:36, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1 Target distance: 20km Target azimuth: 73° Target elevation: 18° Target altitude: 6,4km SNR mode: Wide Beam - 5km Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:01:06, Missile exploded on Channel-1 Practice target Radar Reflector killed by SAM. (miss distance: 86m)
Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 11sec Please try this patch. http://www.mediafire.com/?2aavi4919229t7d(it has some easter eggs)
Last edited by Hpasp; 03/29/13 09:35 PM.
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#3759868 - 03/30/13 06:01 AM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Mdore
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
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Okay, I should probably add a bug report, though you've probably spotted this already. On 0.926D, the sim starts showing the SA-2E, and has Dregelypalank as the "Live Practice". Locking onto a meteor with an SA-2 was cool. But I couldn't add missiles to shoot it down. I'm still guessing it's a bug, even if it was fun If you scroll to the SA-2F or the SA-5, the "Live Practice" fixes itself, and Asuluk and Ustka are available.
Last edited by Mdore; 03/30/13 06:04 AM.
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#3759884 - 03/30/13 08:24 AM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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Might be the same bug. I tried it with the new code, and with Volhov T/T - RabOtVM - auto-track on elevation - 5km display, and manually tracking the Ashuluk Radar Reflector in Azimuth, I was able to kill it. (Range bore-sight was well before the target)
I believe that after passing the boresight, missile should receive second K3 and destruct itself... Do not know how it goes with Rab. ot VM, but as missile goes near a object (like chaffs in Linebacker) it pops-up)...Also about manual tracking - it should be the same from FCO and manual operators on RS (green indicators)....
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#3793766 - 06/08/13 05:48 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
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I found a bug! Look at the pictures here with a tornado.
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#3793834 - 06/08/13 09:53 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
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#3793981 - 06/09/13 12:06 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 187
Muggs
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 187
UK
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Using SA-2E it's possible to fire the first missile while in practice mode, it doesn't show up on the AAR.
disregard
Last edited by Muggs; 06/09/13 04:42 PM.
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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