#3687363 - 11/23/12 08:42 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: RifleFighter]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
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Hello I try to get into the sim with perhaps the most simple of the systems as far as I noticed. I tried to engage a B52 target drone which have both dm and cm jam equipment. I accuire the ep and beta as told in the manual and I assume it's range using the tables in "A" view and I use the bore sight control in order to move the range line into place but I can't "lock on" (press the right mouse button in the R area) and therefore there is not envelope or any sign for firing the missile.
I saw that in the Volhov you can set the height of the target manualy which solves the problem. but how do you do it in the Dvina?
thanks RF There is no way to lock-on in range on the jamming target... This is the idea of jamming.... Please, post your questions into the relevant topic. You should set radiofuse activation to "11 sec" ant use T/T mode, launching 3 miisiles salvo... Good luck...
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#3736921 - 02/17/13 04:54 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
Wolfhound
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I just started using SAMSIM a couple of days ago (using the SA-2F) and must say what a brilliant job Hpasp has done, I'm really enjoying it. I have a questions about the SA-2F: Using the Asuluk range for practice (I've had to substitute some characters in the names of some functions as there is no cyrillic formatting) 1) Set-up at the Asuluk range against a simulated FB-111 flying below 300m. The manuals says to use the 'K' guidance method with the proximity fuse switch in the down position (red lights on). I've noticed that with these setting all of my missiles fail to hit the target. If however I select the centre proximity fuse positions (no red or green lights illuminated), I can achieve great success with either ' K', ' YNP' or ' T/T'. According to the manual the ground clutter should confuse the fuse, but this never happens? 2) The ' BKN. CNHXP' button described on page 33, is supposed to synchronise the missile launchers with the azimuth and elevation of the radar. While this does cause the ' CNHXP. NY' lights to illuminate, suggesting the launchers are synchronised, the red indicators on the elevation and azimuth dials suggest otherwise? 3) Is there a way of zooming in on the Plotting Board display, as when there are multiple contacts in close proximity, it becomes impossible to read the target parameters? 4) On the I-64 panel (Q - button), what are the functions of the following switches, buttons & indicators?: a) ' PK' & KC' which are next to 'EP' (live fire mode). b) There is a switch that activates a red light labelled ' PNK'. c) To the right of the red 'PNK' light is a row of 5 switches. They are all inactivate with the exception of the third switch. d) On the radio fuse selection indicator ' PAE. NO AHA'. 5) On the I-62 panel (Y or Z buttons), the is a large black four position knob below the white 'Antenna / Dummy' switch. It looks like it cycles between launchers, but I'm not sure. What is it's function? Thanks
Last edited by Wolfhound; 02/17/13 04:56 PM.
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
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#3737061 - 02/17/13 09:30 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Wolfhound]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
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I believe that the problem here is the parameter of the target... The radiofuse is more effective than initiation by K3 command, but it shouldn't be possible for using on low altitude above ground as it should detonate right after it was armed ( a bit later than "Rab. po K3" mode...). About <1 light - this is special mode against low altitude targets, not simulated... In reality the ground returns echo of the target signal and on epsilon (and sometimes beta screen, if target goes near steep hill, or mountain) you should see second target return (mirror target), or the target return should looks like the sign of the infinity, which could confuse the system. So <1 mode is about helping for that issue, but don't know how it works...
Last edited by piston79; 02/17/13 09:59 PM.
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#3737098 - 02/17/13 10:59 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
Wolfhound
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Appreciate the help piston79.
I think the business with the fuse may be a bug, because I have never know for it to have caused a detonation due to ground clutter. Also the 'K' guidance command should still lead the target in azimuth. In all the missile fly-outs with 'K' guidance, the SA-2 flies in a fashion so as to maintain a position at least 4 degree to the right of the radar beam azimuth. Then at end game it tries to swing to the left as show in images 6 & 7 I posted and misses nearly all the time.
The picture you posted of <1 reminds me of terrain bounce jamming. I can't read cyrillic however I feel that the illustrations and your description of a mirror image from the target return may form part of the underlying concept of terrain bounce jamming.
Last edited by Wolfhound; 02/18/13 01:45 PM.
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
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#3737533 - 02/18/13 05:57 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Wolfhound]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
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The picture you posted of <1 reminds me of terrain bounce jamming. I can't read cyrillic however I feel that the illustrations and your description of a mirror image from the target return may form part of the underlying concept of terrain bounce jamming.
No, no jamming here, just the signal reflects twice (target-earth)...
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#3738320 - 02/19/13 09:32 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
Wolfhound
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I just managed to kill the simulated F-117 at the Asuluk range. It seems that the best technique is to fire missiles with T/T guidance and the radio fuse switched OFF. I think the target being stealthy makes it very difficult for the radio fuse to detect it. Also because it is not possible to track the F-117 until its quite close, very often its just out of parameters when missiles are launched. T/T guided missiles appear to handle lock-on after launch much better than the other two guidance methods. 'K' and 'YNP' tend to go off track and not guide correctly if launched under similar circumstances.
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
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#3740890 - 02/24/13 12:55 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Wolfhound]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Hungary, Europe
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I just managed to kill the simulated F-117 at the Asuluk range. It seems that the best technique is to fire missiles with T/T guidance and the radio fuse switched OFF. I think the target being stealthy makes it very difficult for the radio fuse to detect it. In real life, T/T method was used. Be aware of the radar equation... ... at the close ranges of the radio proxy, Stealth does not count.
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#3794305 - 06/10/13 01:34 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
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I-RAN
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guys, what is big different between sa-2F and sa-2E proximity fuse ? witch one has high accuaracy than other?
Last edited by farokh; 06/10/13 01:36 PM.
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#3794350 - 06/10/13 02:54 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
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I-RAN
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new tactic found !with this rule you can run from harm attack ! easily ! like below result ! 22:06pm 30th of April, 1999. Operation Allied Force, B-2A raid on Belgrade
Targets: Nat'l MOD HQ FRY MUP HQ MOD HQ South Serb MUP HQ Army HQ Facility A
Supporting force: F-15C Eagle CAP F-16CJ Falcon SEAD EA-6B Prowler ECM RQ-1 Predator UAV
3/250 rd PVO, Petrovcic ( 83m) SA-75M Dvina
+++++++++++++++++ 00:02:41, SNR ON AIR
00:02:45, SNR OFF THE AIR -----------------
+++++++++++++++++ 00:03:41, SNR ON AIR
00:03:42, SNR OFF THE AIR -----------------
00:03:48, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-1 Target distance: 30km Target azimuth: 17° Target elevation: 14° Target altitude: 7.3km SNR mode: 55km Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
+++++++++++++++++ 00:04:03, SNR ON AIR
00:04:05, SNR OFF THE AIR -----------------
+++++++++++++++++ 00:04:11, SNR ON AIR
00:04:13, SNR OFF THE AIR -----------------
+++++++++++++++++ 00:04:15, SNR ON AIR
00:04:25, Missile exploded on Channel-1 F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-2 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 47m)
00:04:29, SNR OFF THE AIR -----------------
+++++++++++++++++ 00:04:39, SNR ON AIR
00:04:43, SNR OFF THE AIR -----------------
00:04:48, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-3 Target distance: 30km Target azimuth: 286° Target elevation: 26° Target altitude: 13.5km SNR mode: 55km Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
00:04:54, V-750VMVK 11DMVK Missile launched on Channel-2 Target distance: 30km Target azimuth: 289° Target elevation: 27° Target altitude: 13.9km SNR mode: 55km Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
+++++++++++++++++ 00:05:05, SNR ON AIR
00:05:08, F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-1 launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1
00:05:23, Missile exploded on Channel-3 F-15C Eagle CAP number-1 hit by SAM. (miss distance: 208m) 00:05:24, F-117A Stealth bombed Batajnica Hangar, with LGB.
00:05:28, Missile exploded on Channel-2 F-15C Eagle CAP number-1 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 45m)
00:05:31, SNR OFF THE AIR -----------------
Total, SNR On Air Time: 56sec
3aar http://www.sendspace.com/file/xzme1tPS: i dont know why i cant use this tactic with volhov !
Last edited by farokh; 06/10/13 02:57 PM.
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#3806793 - 07/09/13 08:56 AM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
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Posts: 916
I-RAN
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#3806874 - 07/09/13 01:09 PM
Re: SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F Guideline)
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Mdore
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Really great find! Thanks for the upload! I've been interested in the Chinese SA-2, the HQ-2, but there are very few photos and little good information. I started a thread a few weeks ago here http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3789199/Chinese_HQ_1_2#Post3789199Maybe one day we'll get lucky and an ex-chinese SAM operator will find this forum and will give Hpasp enough information and photos to put the HQ-1 or HQ-2 into SAM Simulator.
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CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
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