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#3725005 - 01/25/13 08:31 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Hopefully solved. I plan to release an install full version, having all the fixes so far this weekend, so if you seen more bugs, don't be shy... 
Last edited by Hpasp; 01/25/13 08:32 PM.
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#3725550 - 01/26/13 06:46 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 763
WhoCares
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 763
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There is a minor bug in the 3D-AAR, placing some kill "waypoints" at coordinates 0-0 in 0.926c. From Tripoli Shilka mission: First, as a little show-off, 5 kills, Remit 32/33 and Karma 51/52/53. Here the same 3D AAR zoomed out - maybe once a target is killed further hits are registered with 0-0 coordinates? As a little note, there are actually more than the three hits shown there registered at this location. 2:00am 15th of April, 1986.
Operation El-Dorado Canyon raid against Tripoli.
Targets:
Bab al-Aziziyah barracks - 6 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base - 3 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Tripoli AFB - 5 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs
Supporting force:
6 A-7E Corsair-II SEAD (VA-46 Clansmen, VA-72 Blue Hawks from the CV-66 USS America)
4 F-14A Tomcat CAP (VF-33 Starfighters, VF-102 Diamondbacks from the CV-66 USS America)
3 EF-111A Raven ECM
1 EA-6B Prowler ECM (VMAQ-2 Playboys from the CV-43 USS America)
ZSU-23-4V1
00:00:36, F-111F Remit-31 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:01:28 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4022m
Target azimuth: 267°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.8s
00:01:29 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 36pcs.
00:01:30 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3698m
Target azimuth: 270°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.4s
00:01:30 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 44pcs.
00:01:31 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3368m
Target azimuth: 274°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.1s
00:01:32 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 56pcs.
00:01:32 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3043m
Target azimuth: 280°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 4.8s
00:01:33 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:01:37 F-111F Remit-32 killed by OFZT.
00:01:37 F-111F Remit-32 killed by OFZT.
00:01:43, F-111F Remit-33 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:02:02 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3956m
Target azimuth: 267°
Target elevation: 12°
Tu: 5.9s
00:02:03 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 44pcs.
00:02:04 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3549m
Target azimuth: 271°
Target elevation: 14°
Tu: 5.5s
00:02:05 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 48pcs.
00:02:06 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3183m
Target azimuth: 278°
Target elevation: 15°
Tu: 5.2s
00:02:07 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:02:07 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2857m
Target azimuth: 286°
Target elevation: 17°
Tu: 5.2s
00:02:08 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:02:10 F-111F Remit-33 killed by OFZT.
00:02:10 F-111F Remit-33 killed by BZT.
00:02:10 F-111F Remit-33 killed by OFZT.
00:02:10 F-111F Remit-33 killed by OFZT.
00:03:55, F-111F Karma-51bombed the French Embassy, with 4 GBU-10 LGB..
00:04:13 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4227m
Target azimuth: 260°
Target elevation: 11°
Tu: 6.3s
00:04:14 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 44pcs.
00:04:15 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3826m
Target azimuth: 264°
Target elevation: 13°
Tu: 5.7s
00:04:16 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 48pcs.
00:04:16 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3450m
Target azimuth: 268°
Target elevation: 14°
Tu: 5.3s
00:04:17 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 56pcs.
00:04:18 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3090m
Target azimuth: 275°
Target elevation: 16°
Tu: 5s
00:04:19 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 48pcs.
00:04:19 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2822m
Target azimuth: 282°
Target elevation: 17°
Tu: 5s
00:04:20 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:20 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:20 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 28pcs.
00:04:22 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:22 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:22 F-111F Karma-51 killed by BZT.
00:04:22 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:43 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4365m
Target azimuth: 272°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 6.4s
00:04:44 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 48pcs.
00:04:45 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3920m
Target azimuth: 276°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.8s
00:04:46 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 56pcs.
00:04:47 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3527m
Target azimuth: 280°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.3s
00:04:47 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:04:48 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3170m
Target azimuth: 286°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5s
00:04:49 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:04:49 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2901m
Target azimuth: 292°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5s
00:04:50 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 56pcs.
00:04:51 F-111F Karma-52 killed by OFZT.
00:05:18 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4463m
Target azimuth: 271°
Target elevation: 0°
Tu: 6.5s
00:05:19 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:05:20 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4013m
Target azimuth: 275°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.9s
00:05:21 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:05:22 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3614m
Target azimuth: 279°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.4s
00:05:23 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 60pcs.
00:05:23 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3247m
Target azimuth: 284°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.1s
00:05:24 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:05:24 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2947m
Target azimuth: 291°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5s
00:05:26 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 64pcs.
00:05:26 F-111F Karma-53 hit by OFZT.
00:05:26 F-111F Karma-53 killed by BZT.
00:05:26 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2646m
Target azimuth: 301°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 6s
00:05:26 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 12pcs.
00:05:36, F-111F Jewel-61 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
Last edited by WhoCares; 01/26/13 06:47 PM.
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#3729867 - 02/03/13 02:52 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
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About SA-5: Don't think it is a bug, but a non-logical behaviour for me. After target (P~0 in my particular case) was tracked by the CVM (AS-RPC), missiles were launched and go for the target. As target was maintaining constant speed, I switched off the AS-RPC and RPC continued to iluminate the target without automated tracking on any coordinate (V,epsilon, beta, distance). At this moment KRO signals appeared on tne indicator, which, I believe is not logical (the target was completely in the middle of Doppler spectrograph screen!). All three missiles missed (no mather that they passed <100 meters from the target). I double checked situation and when in no AS mode I switched to AS-3, KRO signals dissapeared... In fact in one of mine experiments I switched AS-3 in the moment, when the last missile passed the target (I thought she was lost), and at AAR it appears that target was destroyed with 1 m miss, but in 3DAAR it was not so: 3D AAR 13:46 24th of March, 1986.
Operation Prairie Fire
S-200VE Vega-E
+++++++++++++++++
00:01:43, SNR ON AIR
00:04:22, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 89km
Target azimuth: 12°
Target elevation: 2°
Target angular speed: 275m/s (0.9 Mach)
Target altitude: 4.5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 38.6dB
00:04:27, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 88km
Target azimuth: 12°
Target elevation: 2°
Target angular speed: 275m/s (0.9 Mach)
Target altitude: 4.5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 38.7dB
00:04:32, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 86km
Target azimuth: 12°
Target elevation: 2°
Target angular speed: 275m/s (0.9 Mach)
Target altitude: 4.5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 38.9dB
00:05:41, Missile exploded
F-14B Tomcat killed by SAM. (miss distance: 1m)
Total, SNR On Air Time: 4min 10sec
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#3729999 - 02/03/13 07:32 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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About SA-5: Don't think it is a bug, but a non-logical behaviour for me. After target (P~0 in my particular case) was tracked by the CVM (AS-RPC), missiles were launched and go for the target. As target was maintaining constant speed, I switched off the AS-RPC and RPC continued to iluminate the target without automated tracking on any coordinate (V,epsilon, beta, distance). At this moment KRO signals appeared on tne indicator, which, I believe is not logical (the target was completely in the middle of Doppler spectrograph screen!). All three missiles missed (no mather that they passed <100 meters from the target). I double checked situation and when in no AS mode I switched to AS-3, KRO signals dissapeared... In fact in one of mine experiments I switched AS-3 in the moment, when the last missile passed the target (I thought she was lost), and at AAR it appears that target was destroyed with 1 m miss, but in 3DAAR it was not so: 3D AAR 13:46 24th of March, 1986.
Operation Prairie Fire
S-200VE Vega-E
+++++++++++++++++
00:01:43, SNR ON AIR
00:04:22, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 89km
Target azimuth: 12°
Target elevation: 2°
Target angular speed: 275m/s (0.9 Mach)
Target altitude: 4.5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 38.6dB
00:04:27, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 88km
Target azimuth: 12°
Target elevation: 2°
Target angular speed: 275m/s (0.9 Mach)
Target altitude: 4.5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 38.7dB
00:04:32, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 86km
Target azimuth: 12°
Target elevation: 2°
Target angular speed: 275m/s (0.9 Mach)
Target altitude: 4.5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 38.9dB
00:05:41, Missile exploded
F-14B Tomcat killed by SAM. (miss distance: 1m)
Total, SNR On Air Time: 4min 10sec
There is an inherited issue of these scenarios. Currently the SAM Simulator only simulates FM modulated CW noise jamming. In reality, there are ... Denial Jamming: - Barrage Noise Jamming - Spot Noise Jamming - Swept Spot Noise Jamming - Cover Pulse Noise Jamming - Modulated Noise Jamming Deceptive Jamming: - False Target Jamming - Range Deception Jamming (Range Gate Pull Off) - Angle Deception Jamming (Inverse Amplitude Modulation, Inverse Gain Jamming, Swept Square Wave Jamming) - Velocity Deception Jamming (Velocity Gate Pull Off, Doppler Noise, Narrow-band Doppler Noise, Doppler False Targets) - Mono-pulse Deception Jamming (Cross Polarization Jamming, Cross Eye Jamming) ... these methods are visible and effective on different SAM systems, but not simulated yet.
Last edited by Hpasp; 02/03/13 07:41 PM.
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#3730045 - 02/03/13 09:10 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
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i guess i feel one bug in shilka mechanism !  when i opened fire on target ! i was seat on commander position , and (memory mode) lamp. be ON and after few moments (memory mode) lamp turn ON again my first damage was by BZT and then OFZT, im not sure but BZT bullets do no has any fuse to detonate and send signal to shilka (gun dish) ... right hpasp?... if u are not sure... just test and try to kill one target with BZT first ! based on bellow AAR ! (just check the end of aar) 2:00am 15th of April, 1986.
Operation El-Dorado Canyon raid against Tripoli.
Targets:
Bab al-Aziziyah barracks - 6 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base - 3 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Tripoli AFB - 5 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs
Supporting force:
6 A-7E Corsair-II SEAD (VA-46 Clansmen, VA-72 Blue Hawks from the CV-66 USS America)
4 F-14A Tomcat CAP (VF-33 Starfighters, VF-102 Diamondbacks from the CV-66 USS America)
3 EF-111A Raven ECM
1 EA-6B Prowler ECM (VMAQ-2 Playboys from the CV-43 USS America)
ZSU-23-4V1
00:00:36, F-111F Remit-31 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:01:26 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4591m
Target azimuth: 263°
Target elevation: 0°
Tu: 6.7s
00:01:27 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 48pcs.
00:01:28 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4190m
Target azimuth: 266°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 6.1s
00:01:29 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:01:31 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3392m
Target azimuth: 274°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.1s
00:01:32 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 96pcs.
00:01:33 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2897m
Target azimuth: 283°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 4.7s
00:01:34 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 80pcs.
00:01:35 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2558m
Target azimuth: 295°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5s
00:01:36 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 68pcs.
00:01:38 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2379m
Target azimuth: 318°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 7.9s
00:01:40 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 104pcs.
00:01:43, F-111F Remit-33 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:01:57 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 5579m
Target azimuth: 257°
Target elevation: 8°
Tu: 8.4s
00:01:58 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 60pcs.
00:02:00 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4674m
Target azimuth: 261°
Target elevation: 10°
Tu: 6.9s
00:02:01 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 60pcs.
00:02:01 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4253m
Target azimuth: 264°
Target elevation: 11°
Tu: 6.4s
00:02:02 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 68pcs.
00:02:04 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3647m
Target azimuth: 270°
Target elevation: 13°
Tu: 5.6s
00:02:05 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 60pcs.
00:02:07 F-111F Remit-33 hit by BZT.
00:02:07 F-111F Remit-33 killed by OFZT
Last edited by farokh; 02/03/13 09:22 PM.
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#3731223 - 02/05/13 08:34 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
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hit by OFZT ?????????  2:00am 15th of April, 1986.
Operation El-Dorado Canyon raid against Tripoli.
Targets:
Bab al-Aziziyah barracks - 6 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base - 3 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Tripoli AFB - 5 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs
Supporting force:
6 A-7E Corsair-II SEAD (VA-46 Clansmen, VA-72 Blue Hawks from the CV-66 USS America)
4 F-14A Tomcat CAP (VF-33 Starfighters, VF-102 Diamondbacks from the CV-66 USS America)
3 EF-111A Raven ECM
1 EA-6B Prowler ECM (VMAQ-2 Playboys from the CV-43 USS America)
ZSU-23-4V1
00:00:36, F-111F Remit-31 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:01:25 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 5061m
Target azimuth: 260°
Target elevation: 0°
Tu: 7.4s
00:01:30 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 280pcs.
00:01:32 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3224m
Target azimuth: 277°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 4.9s
00:01:36 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 244pcs.
00:01:37 F-111F Remit-32 hit by OFZT.
00:01:43, F-111F Remit-33 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:01:58 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 5080m
Target azimuth: 259°
Target elevation: 9°
Tu: 7.5s
00:02:07 F-111F Remit-33 hit by BZT.
00:02:07 F-111F Remit-33 killed by OFZT.
00:02:07 F-111F Remit-33 killed by OFZT.
00:02:07 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 500pcs.
00:02:09 F-111F Remit-33 killed by BZT.
00:02:10 F-111F Remit-33 killed by BZT.
Last edited by farokh; 02/05/13 08:35 PM.
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#3738169 - 02/19/13 05:32 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Cat]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
Wolfhound
Member
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Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
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I'm using Windows XP with SAMSIM version 0.926C Ok I spent quite a bit of time testing and observing the SA-2F at the Asuluk range against the very low flying high speed FB-111 and here is what I have found. Asuluk range parameters: Missiles = 6 x V750VU 11DU Targets = 3 x RM-207M (Simulating FB-111s) launched at 1 minute intervals starting at T+00min 10sec dm, m jamming = none cm jamming = none This image shows my I-64 (Q - button) set-up.  This image shows my I-62 (Z - button) set-up.  NOTE:Because I'm engaging a target flying below 300m, the K3 I, II & III red lights are illuminated signifying that the radio proximity fuse for all three missile channels has been switched OFF. Leaving the radio fuses on (K3 I, II & III lights off), is supposed to confuse the missiles radio fuse as it will be flying close to the ground and most likely interference from ground clutter would cause a premature detonation. This images shows a typical missile flyout with ' K' guidance (Half Lead Elevated By Constants), with the red K3 lights.  NOTE:Missile launch is at 30Km, the missiles will always initially stabilise at 3.5 to 4 degrees to the right of the radar beam, as indicated on the azimuth (Beta) display. The 3 green lamps, elevation, range and azimuth signify that auto-tracking has been initiated in all 3 dimensions. The following two images show the missile at 'end-game'.   NOTE: The missile begins it's end-game intercept turn towards the target very late and as a result misses. This occurs about 90% of the time. Regardless of target azimuth motion observed on the azimuth screen and the right PAA dial (black three pronged pointer), the missiles always fly to the right of the radar beam by approximately 3.5 to 4 degrees. This occurs even if the target is moving to the left, which means the missile is not leading the target in azimuth. The following test is exactly the same as the above, but in this instance the K3 I, II & III radio fuse lamps are off indicating that the radio fuses on all three missile channels have been switched ON.This image was taken a few seconds after missile launch, which occurred at 30Km.  NOTE:On this occasion the target was flying to the left which was indicated on the azimuth display and right hand PAA dial. As can be seen the missile is leading the target by flying to the left of the radar beam. Had the target been flying to the right, the missile would lead it to the right as other tests have shown. This is not the case with the radio fuse inactive (K3 red lights ON). This images shows the missile continuing it's fly-out and still leading the target.  NOTE:The movement of the ground clutter to the right and the slight change of the right PAA indicator (showing 45 degrees whereas it was almost 50 degrees in the previous image above this one), illustrates the target is moving to the left. This images shows the missile a few moments before impact. Again note the ground clutter and right PAA indicator.  This images shows the target and missile just after impact. The target was killed.  NOTE:With the radio fuse ON (red K3 lamps OFF), 'K' guidance mode has a pK of 1.0!!! Using ' YNP' guidance (Half-Lead) with the radio fuse ON, there is a chance the missile will 'disappear' a couple of seconds after launch (perhaps being lead into the ground by the target losing altitude). If the missile survives the first couple of seconds, it will lead the target correctly and score a kill. Using ' YNP' guidance with the radio fuse OFF, there is a chance the missile will 'disappear' a couple of seconds after launch (perhaps being lead into the ground by the target losing altitude). If the missile survives the first couple of seconds, it will fly with a profile very similar to the images posted of ' K' guidance with radio fuse OFF. So it will always fly to the right of the radar beam and will not lead the target correctly. The chances of scoring a kill are extremely low. Using T/T guidance (Three-Point) with or without selecting the missile radio fuse has exactly the same effect as ' K' guidance with the radio fuse on, with the exception that the missile will fly directly line of sight on the radar beam to the target. Pk is 1.0!!! This is the most effective mode. 1) So from all of these observations and comparisons we can see that switching the missiles radio fuse OFF (red K3 lamps on) is altering the flight profile of the missiles when used in conjunction with the 'K' and 'YNP' guidance modes.
2) Ground clutter has no effect on the radio fuse regardless of target altitude.
3) Missile pK seems to be far too high, against a high speed low altitude target.
A few other points:
a) Pausing the simulation doesn't pause the missiles gyro, so if you pause the sim just after selecting the 'prepare missile for launch' knob on the I-64 (Q - button) panel, after around 30 seconds (with the sim still paused) the missiles ready lamp on the I-62 (Z - panel) will illuminate.
b) The missiles appear to detonate at the range line on the elevation and azimuth scopes with the radio fuse ON, if auto-tracking is deselected in range and the range line moved downwards (closer in range than the target). If the range line is move upwards (further in range that the target), the missile will not detonate at the range line, but will pass it and disappear after a few seconds of flight.
Considering the missiles are flying with active radio fuses, their proximity to the ground or a target should cause detonation, not their proximity to the range line.
c) Ground clutter doesn't seem to have an effect on target tracking. Ground clutter can make it more difficult for the user to separate a target from the background, but not the radar. If the user by chance happens to have the elevation, range or azimuth lines on a target deep behind clutter, auto-tracking can begin. Ground clutter also doesn't cause a loss of of auto-tracking (break lock).
d) 'T/T' guidance mode seems to be far too effective.Cheers
Last edited by Wolfhound; 02/19/13 06:08 PM.
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
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#3738194 - 02/19/13 06:04 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Wolfhound]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
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b) The missiles appear to detonate at the range line on the elevation and azimuth scopes with the radio fuse ON, if auto-tracking is deselected in range and the range line moved downwards (closer in range than the target). If the range line is move upwards (further in range that the target), the missile will not detonate at the range line, but will pass it and disappear after a few seconds of flight.
Considering the missiles are flying with active radio fuses, their proximity to the ground or a target should cause detonation, not their proximity to the range line.
This is the prove that ground clutters HAS effect on the radiofuse.... Just before "hiting" the range boresight, missile received K3 command to switch on radiofuse, and it detonates, because got a clutter.... The upward movement of the boresight in a constant angle of the antena should lead to a bigger height, so no detonation after K3... I am not 100% sure that there's no bug, but I suggest a closer examination of the 3D AAR... c) Ground clutter doesn't seem to have an effect on target tracking. Ground clutter can make it more difficult for the user to separate a target from the background, but not the radar. If the user by chance happens to have the elevation, range or azimuth lines on a target deep behind clutter, auto-tracking can begin. Ground clutter also doesn't cause a loss of of auto-tracking (break lock).
I've asked such a question long time ago..  The answer is in the next version of SA-2 - "Volkhov"... Just switch the 5 km magnification screen... EDIT: I did some tests and it really DO HAVE a strange behaviour!
Last edited by piston79; 02/19/13 07:03 PM.
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#3738251 - 02/19/13 07:03 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
Wolfhound
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Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
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This is the prove that ground clutters HAS effect on the radiofuse.... Just before "hiting" the range boresight, missile received K3 command to switch on radiofuse, and it detonates, because got a clutter.... The upward movement of the boresight in a constant angle of the antena should lead to a bigger height, so no detonation after K3... I am not 100% sure that there's no bug, but I suggest a closer examination of the 3D AAR... Your correct piston79  . I thought the radio fuse was armed not long after the missile had left the launcher, but what your saying makes much more sense. Against high altitude targets, with the range line set to the bottom of the display, the missiles don't explode because they are being launched at a higher elevation, so by the time the fuse activates (when the sustainer falls of?) the missile is well out of ground clutter. Against medium altitude targets, the missile is launched at a more shallow angle, so moving the range line to the bottom of the display causes detonation as the missile is in ground clutter. I've noticed that playing around with the range line while a missile is in flight causes some problems. There seems to be a limited amount of time after which the missile no longer excepts guidance commands and sometimes just disappears. I've asked such a question long time ago.. The answer is in the next version of SA-2 - "Volkhov"... Just switch the 5 km magnification screen... After the Dvina, the Volkhov will be my next system
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
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#3738357 - 02/19/13 11:02 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 129
Wolfhound
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Posts: 129
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I suggest a closer examination of the 3D AAR... How do you set-up a 3D AAR? EDIT:
I did some tests and it really DO HAVE a strange behaviour! Do you mean the missiles flight path or the fuse? Cheers
Last edited by Wolfhound; 02/19/13 11:03 PM.
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
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#3738510 - 02/20/13 05:51 AM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Wolfhound]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
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Do you mean the missiles flight path or the fuse? The missile path...
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#3739856 - 02/22/13 01:59 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: Mdore]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Possible bug in 0.926C
I'm not sure if this is a bug, or if it's how it's supposed to be.
If memory mode switch is on, and the target is shot and disintegrates, our radar loses target lock and the red light comes on showing it's in memory mode.
But the red light doesn't come on if the target disappears for other reasons. Like flying out of range, or hitting the ground.
Is that how it's supposed to work? Because the radar is still moving by itself even after the target is out of range, like it's still tracking it, or tracking in memory mode. If the target flies out of the range, than the SRP cannot follow it. (Its just a mechanical calculator, if you reached the end of the cog wheel, that it is it.) If the target is at the negative limitation of the SRP, it will not be able to track it either.
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#3739857 - 02/22/13 02:01 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: WhoCares]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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There is a minor bug in the 3D-AAR, placing some kill "waypoints" at coordinates 0-0 in 0.926c. From Tripoli Shilka mission: First, as a little show-off, 5 kills, Remit 32/33 and Karma 51/52/53. Here the same 3D AAR zoomed out - maybe once a target is killed further hits are registered with 0-0 coordinates? As a little note, there are actually more than the three hits shown there registered at this location. 2:00am 15th of April, 1986.
Operation El-Dorado Canyon raid against Tripoli.
Targets:
Bab al-Aziziyah barracks - 6 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base - 3 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Tripoli AFB - 5 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs
Supporting force:
6 A-7E Corsair-II SEAD (VA-46 Clansmen, VA-72 Blue Hawks from the CV-66 USS America)
4 F-14A Tomcat CAP (VF-33 Starfighters, VF-102 Diamondbacks from the CV-66 USS America)
3 EF-111A Raven ECM
1 EA-6B Prowler ECM (VMAQ-2 Playboys from the CV-43 USS America)
ZSU-23-4V1
00:00:36, F-111F Remit-31 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:01:28 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4022m
Target azimuth: 267°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.8s
00:01:29 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 36pcs.
00:01:30 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3698m
Target azimuth: 270°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.4s
00:01:30 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 44pcs.
00:01:31 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3368m
Target azimuth: 274°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.1s
00:01:32 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 56pcs.
00:01:32 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3043m
Target azimuth: 280°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 4.8s
00:01:33 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:01:37 F-111F Remit-32 killed by OFZT.
00:01:37 F-111F Remit-32 killed by OFZT.
00:01:43, F-111F Remit-33 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:02:02 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3956m
Target azimuth: 267°
Target elevation: 12°
Tu: 5.9s
00:02:03 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 44pcs.
00:02:04 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3549m
Target azimuth: 271°
Target elevation: 14°
Tu: 5.5s
00:02:05 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 48pcs.
00:02:06 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3183m
Target azimuth: 278°
Target elevation: 15°
Tu: 5.2s
00:02:07 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:02:07 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2857m
Target azimuth: 286°
Target elevation: 17°
Tu: 5.2s
00:02:08 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:02:10 F-111F Remit-33 killed by OFZT.
00:02:10 F-111F Remit-33 killed by BZT.
00:02:10 F-111F Remit-33 killed by OFZT.
00:02:10 F-111F Remit-33 killed by OFZT.
00:03:55, F-111F Karma-51bombed the French Embassy, with 4 GBU-10 LGB..
00:04:13 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4227m
Target azimuth: 260°
Target elevation: 11°
Tu: 6.3s
00:04:14 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 44pcs.
00:04:15 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3826m
Target azimuth: 264°
Target elevation: 13°
Tu: 5.7s
00:04:16 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 48pcs.
00:04:16 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3450m
Target azimuth: 268°
Target elevation: 14°
Tu: 5.3s
00:04:17 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 56pcs.
00:04:18 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3090m
Target azimuth: 275°
Target elevation: 16°
Tu: 5s
00:04:19 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 48pcs.
00:04:19 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2822m
Target azimuth: 282°
Target elevation: 17°
Tu: 5s
00:04:20 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:20 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:20 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 28pcs.
00:04:22 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:22 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:22 F-111F Karma-51 killed by BZT.
00:04:22 F-111F Karma-51 killed by OFZT.
00:04:43 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4365m
Target azimuth: 272°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 6.4s
00:04:44 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 48pcs.
00:04:45 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3920m
Target azimuth: 276°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.8s
00:04:46 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 56pcs.
00:04:47 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3527m
Target azimuth: 280°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.3s
00:04:47 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:04:48 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3170m
Target azimuth: 286°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5s
00:04:49 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:04:49 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2901m
Target azimuth: 292°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5s
00:04:50 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 56pcs.
00:04:51 F-111F Karma-52 killed by OFZT.
00:05:18 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4463m
Target azimuth: 271°
Target elevation: 0°
Tu: 6.5s
00:05:19 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:05:20 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 4013m
Target azimuth: 275°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.9s
00:05:21 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:05:22 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3614m
Target azimuth: 279°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.4s
00:05:23 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 60pcs.
00:05:23 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 3247m
Target azimuth: 284°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5.1s
00:05:24 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 52pcs.
00:05:24 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2947m
Target azimuth: 291°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 5s
00:05:26 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 64pcs.
00:05:26 F-111F Karma-53 hit by OFZT.
00:05:26 F-111F Karma-53 killed by BZT.
00:05:26 ZSU-23-4V1 opened fire by all tubes.
Target distance: 2646m
Target azimuth: 301°
Target elevation: 1°
Tu: 6s
00:05:26 ZSU-23-4V1 closed fire, and shot 12pcs.
00:05:36, F-111F Jewel-61 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB. Can you help to track this issue, I was trying to track it but was unable...
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#3739858 - 02/22/13 02:02 PM
Re: Bug reports
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Yes  I was unable to got more realistic flightplans so far. If they were not hit, they were recycled in an elliptic path somehow...
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