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#3720162 - 01/18/13 03:47 AM Learning the S.E.5a  
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rockhpi Offline
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I finally decided to get in RoF proper and quit jumping into that Spads vs. Fokkers quick mission I've been flying forever. I decided to learn the S.E.5a. I watched the videos by Requiem on takeoff and landing. I got into the sim and turned of all the auto settings for mixture, etc. I left on navigation aids and easy-to-see gauges plus the "already warmed up" setting.

So, in Requiem's video, he sets the radiator open (forward), the mixture to full rich (back) and the throttle to idle. After he starts the engine, he says to lean out the mixture until the RPMs go over 500. This doesn't happen for me. I inch the mixture lever leaner (I checked, it's not mapped backwards) and nothing happens until the revs start to fall off, eventually quitting. So I kind of ignored that part since I could take off just fine with the RPMs just under 500. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I thought maybe I had to wait a bit but that didn't help and in the video he doesn't really wait.

Now, there's a very long gap between this video and the landing video and I'm not sure what I should do in between. Once I'm in the air, should I close the radiator? Should I lean out the mixture? I did try to lean it out and stop just before the engine started complaining. Looking to 6 o'clock, I could see thin, white smoke and I didn't know if I was running too rich or if that was normal S.E.5a operational smoke. I used the leanest setting I could and I still had that thin, white smoke, however.

So I never got to the landing part, the first try on the Morning Hunt mission, I pulled the wings off diving too fast and the second try I was hit by ground fire (I think) while going after some albatros..ess..(albatri?) and my vision narrowed and there was either blood or oil or both on my goggles. The good news is I put the plane down safely by some miracle but I don't count that as actual landing practice.

Is there a free flight mission somewhere where I can just fly around learning the plane without worrying about the Boche?

Having lots of fun.

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#3720259 - 01/18/13 06:42 AM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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For the RPMs, are you throttling up after leaning the mixture? Mixture doesn't have to be backed off that much on the ground, but you'll need to increase throttle to get the RPMs up to 500.

Once in the air, the mixture only needs to be adjusted as you climb - and then not really that much. If you notice your RPMs drop off, lean it out a little as you get higher. Adjust the radiator according to the temperature gauge. The faster you go, the less open the radiator needs to be. The slower, the more open. The higher, again less radiator since the atmosphere gets chillier as you climb. However, just consult the temp gauge - between 60 and 80 seems to be good and doesn't overheat or over-cool.

For most flights, I start the engine with full mix - back it off to about 80/90%, increase RPM to warm up the engine with radiator closed, once heated up gun the throttle and open up the radiator about 25% in summer - 15% in winter - and periodically check the gauges.

Thin white "smoke" is actually steam, and it means your radiator is boiling - so you need to open up the radiator fins all the way to cool down and once the engine is back in the nominal zone close the radiator fins to around 75/80 percent closed and check on the temp gauge periodically.

Use QMB and set the enemy flights to 0, set yourself as the only one on your side and have at it. You can set your altitude to takeoff using the "Skirmish" option in QMB (click Skirmish on the map) and drag your alt down all the way. If it doesn't show a hangar, try a different Skirmish area. Some will allow field take off, others will only go to .1 or .2 meters off the ground.

Also, this is a generic tip for all planes with radiators (inlines). Some require slightly different mixture/rad babysitting than others, but just periodically checking the temp gauge and tachometer will keep the engine running.

Last edited by NattyIced; 01/18/13 06:44 AM.
#3720415 - 01/18/13 02:47 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: NattyIced]  
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rockhpi Offline
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Originally Posted By: NattyIced
Thin white "smoke" is actually steam, and it means your radiator is boiling - so you need to open up the radiator fins all the way to cool down and once the engine is back in the nominal zone close the radiator fins to around 75/80 percent closed and check on the temp gauge periodically.


On my first takeoff, I had the radiator set wrong (it was closed) on takeoff. I noticed that the temperature gauge was high and opened the radiator up and the temperature went down. The smoke/steam was still present, however. I flew for quite a long time on that mission

On my second takeoff, I made sure the radiator was set properly and the engine never got hot but the smoke/steam was there the moment I took off, which made me wonder if either I was running too rich or if the S.E.5a just smokes a bit normally.

Originally Posted By: NattyIced
For the RPMs, are you throttling up after leaning the mixture? Mixture doesn't have to be backed off that much on the ground, but you'll need to increase throttle to get the RPMs up to 500.


I'll check it again, but I watched Requiem's video twice and I'm pretty sure he throttles back to idle and says "Now lean the mixture until the RPMs get just above 500."

Thanks for the help, I'll report back.

#3720479 - 01/18/13 04:46 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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Ctrl-I gives you the 2D instruments. Its nice to have a visual aid for control positions and so you can see exactly what effects your actions are causing as you learn.

Personally in the SE5a I just take off at full rich then adjust the mix in flight for max rev's. I open the radiator half way by default then adjust as necessary to keep the engine on the warm side. There MAY be a slight performance advantage to running your engine on the warm side, not overheating but on the warm side of OK. A dark trail tends to mean too rich, a lighter one too lean, white means you're overheating. If you do boil up it can take a while to cool down enough to lose the white vapour trail.

Don't forget you can tilt your Lewis gun up on the SE5a, its great for attacking 2 seaters. You also get the moving tailplane, a course trim control, with the SE5a you get all the toys smile



WAS C2D 8500 3.16ghz, 285gtx 1gb, 4gig ram, XP NOW Win7 64, I5 2500K, SSD, 8Gig ram, GTX 570
#3720480 - 01/18/13 04:46 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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NattyIced Offline
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Might be something with his throttle that keeps it up just a little. I get around 400RPMs with throttle at idle no matter how much I fiddle with mix.

Here's how much smoke I have behind my SE5a, if I lean it more the engine loses power.


#3720544 - 01/18/13 06:33 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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Its probably because I made that video before the SE5 FM changes, so now the way the engine behaves is slightly different. As long as you lean out the mixture a bit below full rich its fine.

#3720610 - 01/18/13 08:15 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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rockhpi Offline
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Mogster, I have the 2D instruments turned on for that very reason. Training wheels smile I haven't tried angling the top gun, but the S.E.5a seemed like a good starter plane. It's sad, I have been flying sims since Microprose's F-15 but I feel like a total newbie in these modern sims. Getting old!

NattyIced, that picture is what I'm seeing, so apparently that's a normal smoke level.

Thanks, Requiem (and for all the videos too!).

Only a short leap from here to Albert Ball.

#3720641 - 01/18/13 09:11 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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Originally Posted By: rockhpi
Mogster, I have the 2D instruments turned on for that very reason. Training wheels smile I haven't tried angling the top gun, but the S.E.5a seemed like a good starter plane. It's sad, I have been flying sims since Microprose's F-15 but I feel like a total newbie in these modern sims. Getting old!

NattyIced, that picture is what I'm seeing, so apparently that's a normal smoke level.

Thanks, Requiem (and for all the videos too!).

Only a short leap from here to Albert Ball.


not to totally hi-jack this thread, but I used to have all the Microprose sims, lots of good memories, hadn't thought about them in years.

#3721035 - 01/19/13 05:30 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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I have tons of time in the SE5 and this is what you need to do to learn the aircraft.

First off, the mixture is not going to have much effect at idle. You do however, have to bring the mixture to full rich to start the aircraft.

Try this and see if it doesn't clear things up for you---

1. Leave settings as you have them now-especially warmed up engine.

2. Bring mixture to full rich and start engine.

3. Open radiator fully

4. take off and climb to approx. 500 feet AGL with throttle wide open and maintain straight and level flight.

5. Play with the MIXTURE lever and watch how you can change the "peak" engine RPM by "leaning" out the engine mixture. Lean it to maximum RPM.

6. Take a look at the location of the engine mixture lever and try to remember it. AFTER you start the engine, you can move the mixture lever to this approximate location and the aircraft will climb noticably better than if you leave it at full rich as the engine will be running at a higher RPM. You'll actually be able to climb to a pretty reasonable altitude before you'll need to mess with the mixture again and really only to get the max performance out of the engine.

7. As you continue to climb-you will need to continue to lean the engine to get the absolute max out of it.

8. If you run the engine at full throttle, keep the radiator open all the way. If you make a long dive, close it all the way but remember to open it back up again when you throttle up.


Skids are for kids!
#3721645 - 01/20/13 05:20 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: xero.luck]  
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Originally Posted By: xero.luck


not to totally hi-jack this thread, but I used to have all the Microprose sims, lots of good memories, hadn't thought about them in years.


MPS, Dynamix/Sierra, Origin/EA, and SH used to be the kings of simming in the 90s. I miss those days.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3722036 - 01/21/13 10:05 AM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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In other Sims like OFF I'm a killer in the SE5a and the Brisfit yet here I find them very difficult as they really are terrible turning. I find I'm still OK in the Brisfit but the SE5a is a plane I just don't enjoy flying in game that much which is a shame as I love flying it in OFF.

Funny really I'm more adjusted to turn fighters like the Pup or Camel (Not keen on the DR1 as it's abit too twitchy though I enjoy the Pflaz111 and there Alb's which in my opinion are the best learner planes in game), but I love (loved)the SE5a and Brisfit. Just wish the SE5a was just abit better at turning oh and it still easy to knacker the engine in a dive again odd for a boom and zoom plane. Things is I'd have thought though it is more a BnZ plane it would still do well in a turn considering it was prob the most lethal plane around which I'd have thought wouldn't have been the case if it was useless at turning and only good for BnZ. I'm not saying it should be as good in a turn as a turn fighter but I think it should be better than it is.

The above is my personal opinion.

#3722090 - 01/21/13 02:01 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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So are you trying to say that OFF FM is better than RoF's, or that you want RoF devs to modify a FM based on your habits taken from another sim? As in a parallel thread, it is indeed a question of "adjusting sensitivity" wink



#3722277 - 01/21/13 07:57 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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What is a Pflaz111?

#3722313 - 01/21/13 08:49 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: Laser]  
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Originally Posted By: Laser
So are you trying to say that OFF FM is better than RoF's, or that you want RoF devs to modify a FM based on your habits taken from another sim? As in a parallel thread, it is indeed a question of "adjusting sensitivity" wink




erm..not expecting them to alter the FM at all..I just find the plane harder to dogfight in either BnZ or trying to turn. In OFF I feel like I'm in a killer machine, not so in ROF more like an unwieldy bus.

Luke you knew what I meant a PflazDIII

Last edited by Wodin; 01/22/13 12:36 AM.
#3722391 - 01/21/13 10:55 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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That's a Roman numeral 3, ie III, but I had a brief picture of a He111 built by Pfalz and had a good laugh. smile

Anyway, I've never heard the SE5a was a good turning fighter, but rather a BnZ'er and ROF lets you do that...within reason, of course, because all too often I have issues with getting my airspeed high enough to do so! It's like every time I fly I never know if the plane will feel like going fast or being a slowpoke...




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The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3722485 - 01/22/13 02:28 AM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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The Rise of Flight SE5a has a very good instantaneous turn rate. You can use that to turn with Albatrosses and Pfalzes to deliver the coup de grace. Just be careful not to enter into a prolonged, flat circle.

#3722580 - 01/22/13 07:39 AM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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I think sometimes , maybe I try and turn to hard thinking I'm not turning enough maybe.

#3722704 - 01/22/13 02:57 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: Wodin]  
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Originally Posted By: Wodin
In other Sims like OFF I'm a killer in the SE5a and the Brisfit yet here I find them very difficult as they really are terrible turning. I find I'm still OK in the Brisfit but the SE5a is a plane I just don't enjoy flying in game that much which is a shame as I love flying it in OFF.

Funny really I'm more adjusted to turn fighters like the Pup or Camel (Not keen on the DR1 as it's abit too twitchy though I enjoy the Pflaz111 and there Alb's which in my opinion are the best learner planes in game), but I love (loved)the SE5a and Brisfit. Just wish the SE5a was just abit better at turning oh and it still easy to knacker the engine in a dive again odd for a boom and zoom plane. Things is I'd have thought though it is more a BnZ plane it would still do well in a turn considering it was prob the most lethal plane around which I'd have thought wouldn't have been the case if it was useless at turning and only good for BnZ. I'm not saying it should be as good in a turn as a turn fighter but I think it should be better than it is.

The above is my personal opinion.


The ROF SE5a suffers to some extent from being matched with the ROF Pfalz and Albatros.

When the SE5a had its flight model review Petrovich had tons of data to chew on, quite unusual for a WW1 crate. He matched the FM to the data exactly, I think its by far the best FM in the sim as far as fitting the data goes. Now the Albatros and Pfalz are still waiting for their revision, if they got a similar treatment to the SE5a I think we'd really see the SE5a's strength. Both the Albs and Pfalz may be a bit slow but they turn and roll way too well.


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#3722728 - 01/22/13 03:28 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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Which Albatros rolls too well? The D.II and D.Va roll very quickly at all airspeeds, but the D.III roll rate seems about right (to me). The thing that is strange about the Pfalz D.IIIa roll is the lack of wind shearing noise. In most Rise of Flight crates, if you roll from side to side without rudder, you hear wind shear. In the Pfalz D.IIIa I hear very little, if any at all.

#3723614 - 01/23/13 10:28 PM Re: Learning the S.E.5a [Re: rockhpi]  
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The DIII FM is a bit better than the other two, it came later.

From reading historical reports and Gene DeMarco's comments about the TVAL DVa it's hard to recognize the stable Albs with smart aileron response we have in game. DeMarco describes an aircraft that's very pitch sensitive but sluggish in roll. They should dive better and be a few mph faster though.


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