I was under the impression that Wings of Prey was a PC-fied version of IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey (which was only released for consoles).
I've tried to play IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover (it was on sale on Greenman Gaming for ~$2 just recently), but sadly every time I try to run it it tries to force an "update" of the .net framework, and its update just breaks .net for me. So I've given up on that game for now.

Ah, and yes, it helped. I'm currently still relatively clueless when it comes to simulators, outside of the most famous ones, so all information is welcome.


I just tried to run DCS: World, but even on its lowest graphics settings, I'm not getting a good framerate at all


*edit* Oh, GT Legends & GTR 2 are both really cheap. Thanks for pointing me towards them. F1 2012 might with a big of luck also be featured in the next flash sale.

I prefer WWII flight simulations but I haven't had much interest in the combat aspect for several years now. I've gravitated towards Microsoft Flight Simulator X, with A2A Simulations' Accu-Sim warbirds installed. You can find detailed tutorials on YouTube or at the A2A forums.

From that perspective, I've been considering the DCS Mustang and COD. Either would be a cheaper alternative for somebody wanting to experience an in-depth warbird operation simulation (start-up procedures, takeoff and landing, aerobatics, gunnery) instead of a historic combat campaign.

For me the toughest thing was learning how to do my own TMA. If you can learn how to do that with some confidence the rest of the sim will come pretty easily. In fact, you don't even have to do your own TMA. You can assign that role to your AI crew and you can then worry about doing other things like navigation, combat systems, etc.

I know you said you liked WWII planes, but if you want to try anything more modern, the choices are:

F/A-18 - Jane's F/A-18 or FSX+SuperBug+TacPack
F-16 - Falcon BMS
A-10 - DCS A10C for the Charlie, or Flaming Cliffs 3 for the A-10A
F-15, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29 - Flaming Cliffs 3

Note that the last set there (Flaming Cliffs 3) is slightly less simulation compared to the likes of BMS or DCS A10C.

Not sure how that's happening as the engine is far more optimized than the BS1 one, I had trouble getting decent framerates with BS1 but DCS World and all modules run very smoothly.

To Fnord,

You may have heard of TrackIR which allows you to pan view by tracking your head, it is used in most current sims, though it is a little pricey, especially if you don't know if you are going to like it, there are some free alternatives however.

FacetrackNoIR, which uses a facerecognition.

And if you are handy you can build your own tracking device with FreeTrack, this is what I use.

As for flightsims you might want to try Rise of Flight, it is easy to learn but hard to master like IL-2.
Like others said you might also want to try War Thunder.
For racing sims I haven't come across a sim which had a good tutorial, that said I think I learned more from reading the Gran Turismo manual and watching Initial D than from racing simulators.
You might want to give Simraceway a try though, not the best graphics but the carphysics are there.

Well, the first decision you have to make is, what kind of sims will you play, racing or flying? Because it's difficult to play flight sims with the steering wheel in your line of sight. This was my toughest decision to make but with recently purchased clio 172 i feel less need for virtual racing But i'm sure Pcars and Asseto Corsa will force me to put the G25 back in it's place...

How modern(ish) computer friendly is the old Jane's games?`

I think I'll check out Flaming Cliffs 3, as it looks like my computer would be able to handle it better.
Also, when googling these names, I also noticed that there seem to be a free fan-made version of the Falcon-series named FreeFalcon, anyone have an opinion on this one?



Sadly the DCS world thing that I (take it that) DCS Mustang is linked to ran really poorly for me. I got somewhere in the region of 5fps. But MS flight sim X should run fine.



That is odd. I got about 5fps in DCS world (lowest graphics settings and a low resolution) while BS 1 gave me a decent enough framerate.




I have both a wheel and a joystick plugged into my computer right now, both are resting next to it while I'm not using them (this is the computer I use for basically everything, can't make any permanent changes that will make it hard for me to use it for non-gaming things). Neither the wheel nor the joystick are great though, but I had to go cheap. In fact, I traded myself to the wheel, but it had hardly even been used before I got it. Lacks its force feedback adapter though.

Okay, next info I think we all need is what gear you are running with. List everything, monitor, PC specs, driving gear, flight gear, TrackIR, etc. etc.

The Jane's line should be kind to older systems, as well as Falcon BMS. As you've found out, DCS series do push modern machines. Flaming Cliffs 3 is designed to play with DCS World so I'm not too sure if your rig can handle it if it's struggling with DCS World.

FreeFalcon and OpenFalcon have been fan projects of the original Falcon 4.0, but BMS is the best "version" currently out.

I always feel a bit ashamed when i post my computer specs, but here goes:
Win7 pro
Intel Core2 Duo 2.66ghz
3gb ram
nvidia GeForce 8600GTS 512mb vram

Joystick: Logitech extreme 3d pro
Wheel: Logitech Wingman formula force gp

I have no headtracking equipment or similar (that would be nice to have, but I would prioritize getting a better computer if I had that amount of money handy right now)

In that case, you should try racing sims first, you only need a wheel for those, where for flight sims, TIR is necessary, plus a bunch of other stuff if you get bitten by a cockpit bug. GTR2 and similar titles from the same period should work perfectly. Check for used G25 wheels, they're brilliant.

+1 on trying racing sims first, though if you think you want to go for flight sims, then yes, some more equipment may be needed.

However, I would say that you may want to upgrade your computer first. Get a beefier video card if you can, that is your first priority. Doesn't matter if it's second hand, or if you just have to borrow one from a mate in return for doing his laundry and cleaning his flat. Next would be RAM -- get at least 6GB if you are doing triple-channel. Then see if you can OC that Core2, or buy a new MB-CPU combo down the road.

The bonus of upgrading the PC first is that your ENTIRE gaming experience will benefit, no matter if it's sims or shooters or RTS or whatever.

In terms of flight sim gear, IIRC the Logi Extreme 3D Pro had a twist joystick function? If so, and if the pots are still working fine, then that should be good enough to get your feet wet. Your first priority will be to buy a TrackIR -- get the TIR3 or 4 with vector expansion if money is tight, but try to get a TIR 4 or TIR 5 if possible. Trust me, this thing is a game-changer. Imagine flying with your keyboard vs with your stick ---- but this time looking around with your keyboard vs with your head

Hope that helps!

Flight simulators require a huge investment in time. They must be learned in easy gentle stages just like the machines they simulate. The good news is that, just like languages, once you master one, those that follow are easier.

You have pleanty of horsepower to run the Strike Fighters series from Thirdwire. They can be purchased on their website and might be a good mid-step in your quest toward more hardcore sims. as the systems are there - but simplified. Still plenty of depth there to fill every button on your joystick!

Hey Fnord-
Looking at what you have to work with, on the flight sim front I'm going to recommend Rise of Flight if you want to go the hardcore sim route. To really get proficient in something like BMS or DCS (in my opinion) you need to have a good stick and throttle set up. Programming and learning the buttons is a significant part of the learning curve. I would also second what everyone has said that a TrackIR is a must for serious flight simming.

I've been a serious flight simmer for many years, but just recently (as in 5 days ago) I started getting into sim racing when I got a G27 wheel for Christmas. I'm racing Race07, GTR2, and F1 2012. F1 seems to get a lot of flak from people, but I absolutely love it. It is very hard. My approach to all of these is to start with some of the aids on, especially the ones that show you what track to take on corners, and I have the AI opponents dialed down to 80%. Once I start getting the hang of it, I plan to gradually turn things off.

I haven't found sim flying to translate to sim racing much at all!

Finally, as previously mentioned, in my experience I can only focus on two sims at one time before I start to lose muscle memory. So, don't feel like you have to master them all. Pick one or two and learn them inside and out. Otherwise, you might really start to get frustrated. Switching between Ka-50, A-10, and RoF, for instance, is quite difficult.

LOMAC is good if you're relatively new to modern flight sims but do not need the sim to be as realistic as possible. Its tutorials are the "sit and watch" kind though, so I take notes while watching them.
You say that DCS doesn't run well on your computer? Same here. I don't quite have the cash to upgrade though. BMS also does not run well on my computer, but Free Falcon does, and I recommend it if you want a good sim on a lower-end computer. It's a good idea to have the manual on hand while flying the training missions, though.

On Windows 7, Jane's F-15 can be troublesome to get working. You may need a glide wrapper to get it to look well and the menus are bugged out, where you must press ctrl+alt+delete and then click "cancel" to properly view the menus. My biggest issue is that the only glide wrapper that runs fast while rendering correctly always always always stretches the screen to fill my widescreen monitor while the only glide wrapper I've gotten to work that does not stretch the screen has annoying render glitches and terrible slowdowns.
I don't think I've ever gotten Jane's F-18 to work satisfactorily, but that's just me, and I haven't really put much effort into doing so.

I haven't played much in the way of WWII sims (though I like IL-2) or racing sims (though I have played F1 2010), so I can't really say much about them.

I read your first post and assuming it still applies I recall that: your economy is limited and you don't know if you really wanted to get into these games or is it just a spur of the moment.

Your system can run GT Legends and GTR 2 quite fine. I also think that there are serious flight sims which your system can handle. With these options and your previous statements, I think it is reckless for you to immediately dish out money to upgrade your rig on something you're not even sure about.

Upgrade the hardware when you actually feel that the need is there. Or, more specifically, when you're absolutely sure you're really into the games that require them.

I have a PCI-E 1.0a port on my motherboard, which sadly limits what I can do with it. There are known issues with the first generation of PCI-e ports and PCI-e 2.0 and later cards. I would like to be able to replace my entire computer, but at the moment that is just not possible.

I only have a single monitor, so won't a headtracker mean that I'll just end up looking away from the computer screen?
And yes, my joystick has a twist function (it was part of the reason why I bought this particular model, that and the low(ish) price).


I'll check out LOMAC (I take it that it is LockOn Modern Air Combat). It looks like something that my machine should be able to run well.


I know that I want to get into simulators, though I'm not quite sure on which games are good entry level sims.
I did pick up GT Legends from the current sale on steam and I'm actually installing it as I type this (I do in fact suspect that it has been installed and ready for a while now, as it is only 1.6gb)