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#3697190 - 12/11/12 10:03 PM LCD monitor vs LCD TV?  
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2Lt_Joch Offline
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Christmas is coming and my wife is trying to figure out what to get me as a gift. At the cottage, I use an ancient, circa 2000 a.d., 22" CRT monitor. PC specs in my sig.

She has offered to get me a LCD TV to use as a monitor/part time TV. You can get very decent 40" LCD TVs with 1920x1080p res, 120 mhz refresh for around can. $600, but a hi end 27" LCD monitor is around $750.

Just wondering what people's experiences have been PC gaming with a HDTV rather than a monitor. Almost all my gaming time is in simulations: combat mission, silent hunter, various flight sims.


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#3697207 - 12/11/12 10:23 PM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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Dot Pitch.

When I moved a few years back, I had My PC hooked to my HDTV, and the dot pitch was enough to blur text and make smaller text (under say 14p) unreadable.

Most PC LCD/LED Screens are 1080p up to say 26 Inches, after that comes the x1200 etc resolutions.

An average dot pitch of a 21.5 inch screen is .3-.5mm (distance between px).

so you take that same 1080p array and scale it up 200% to get a 43 inch array, that dot pitch is now .6 to 1mm.

not only is the distance from Px to Px greater, the size of the Px Diode is also a lil larger.

My advice would be to actually see the TV before you buy one, if possible ask what it would look like hooked to a PC.

if it has a PC mode then it's prolly got a smaller Dot Pitch than Normal TVs. (around .5 to .7).



Then you have to look at refresh rate. smile Most LCDs are 5ms, with gaming screens 2ms or faster. dont know what a 120hz TV is. 120fps doesnt mean that the pixels respond at 120 fields per sec. which will cause ghosting.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 12/11/12 10:30 PM.

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#3697241 - 12/11/12 11:15 PM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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Most large LCD TVs are only 1920x1080 resolution... Like what was stated above, this is horrible for text or up-close viewing. 1080 pixels spread over the vertical height of a 40" LCD TV just looks awful from less than 4 ft away...


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#3697265 - 12/12/12 12:06 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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We have two LCD HDTV (26" 1920x1200, 27" 1920x1080) used as both TV and Computer monitor and two Plasma HDTV (50" ~1280x720, 54" 1920x1080) used the same way (with HTPCs).

They work fine as monitors. BUT, as noted above, one cannot sit too close without them looking pixelated. This is a recognized problem and there are on-line sites that discuss it and recommend sitting distances. The better your eyes, the farther away you have to sit.

In a nutshell, to work for most everyone, one has to sit about 1.5x the screen diagonal distance (or more) for 1920x1080. The exact distance is a preference of the user -- some folks will get by at 1x with a 1920x1080 screen. I sit about 30" from my 24" 1920x1200 monitor (1.25x).

So, for example, with a 40" 1920x1080 screen, sit 40" to 60" away (or more). With a 720p screen, increase the distance by 50 percent (60" to 90" or more).


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#3697276 - 12/12/12 12:20 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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Yeah, I never could understand why someone would buy an HD TV to use as a PC monitor, unless they intended to sit further away from the monitor than a "regular" PC user would. 1920x1080 is still 1920x1080 whether you're on a 22" monitor or a 40" TV, but the TV will look pixellated up close! Plus don't the TVs usually have lower refresh times?


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#3697285 - 12/12/12 12:32 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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TVs now are 120hz, 240hz or 600hz.


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#3697300 - 12/12/12 01:17 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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Originally Posted By: 2Lt_Joch
Christmas is coming and my wife is trying to figure out what to get me as a gift. At the cottage, I use an ancient, circa 2000 a.d., 22" CRT monitor. PC specs in my sig.

She has offered to get me a LCD TV to use as a monitor/part time TV. You can get very decent 40" LCD TVs with 1920x1080p res, 120 mhz refresh for around can. $600, but a hi end 27" LCD monitor is around $750.

Just wondering what people's experiences have been PC gaming with a HDTV rather than a monitor. Almost all my gaming time is in simulations: combat mission, silent hunter, various flight sims.



Don't forget to save that old 22" CRT as a Cottage anchor for any storms/hurricanes that might head your way...
smile

#3697319 - 12/12/12 01:55 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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To carry on the discussion, I just moved my PC from a 50 inch DLP HDTV @ 1080p to my Dell monitor at 1920x1200x32... And now see how blurry the TV was, crisp now... But my q. If you have to use a TV, is it better to use HDMI connection or the dedicated VGA PC port on the TV?

#3697338 - 12/12/12 02:46 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: ArgonV]  
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Originally Posted By: ArgonV
TVs now are 120hz, 240hz or 600hz.


that's the refresh Rate of the Video Signal Processor, not the actual response time of each individual color on the Px Diode.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 12/12/12 02:47 AM.

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#3697344 - 12/12/12 03:00 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: Magnum]  
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Originally Posted By: Magnum
To carry on the discussion, I just moved my PC from a 50 inch DLP HDTV @ 1080p to my Dell monitor at 1920x1200x32... And now see how blurry the TV was, crisp now... But my q. If you have to use a TV, is it better to use HDMI connection or the dedicated VGA PC port on the TV?


VGA would be subjected to Analog Interference from Speakers, desk fans, toaster ovens, microwaves, basically anything that emmits and EM Field, Your CPU in your PC included.

With a Quality cable, within Length Specs you prolly will be OK, as long as it's run cleanly away from other sources and has filters on both ends.

Dont use cheap cables, dont use cables longer than I think it was 36 inches was the max recommended length,

VGA has it's Limitations in RefreshRate and Resolution,

Example, VGA Only Supports 1.6 and 1.7787 resolutions natively, which are:
Wide XGA (1366x768), WSXGA (1440x900), WSXGA (1680x1020), WUXFA (1920x1200), WQHD (2660x1440), WQXGA (2560x1600)

Most HDTVs with PC Input or 16:9 Monitors (1600x900 or 1080p etc) use the above resolutions and Scale/Letterbox it to fit the screen, so there's even more blurring added

1080P HDTVs use 1366x768 and Internal Scaling to re-size image. ( i think I've seen some with 1440x900 upsampling).
1600x900 Monitors use 1440x900 and Re-Scale Image.

Which is why you have the option to choose your resolution and Aspect Ratio Now, where as in early 2000s and late 90s all TV outs were pretty much 640x480 (S-Video Out on ATI AIW -> AIW 9xxx Series), until about 2004 when they were using Component Cables and 1080i Max. and required a separate Scaler Chip (ala 8800GTS).

If you have an HDMI Output, use it, as you'll be able to use the Correct native Resolution and Refresh Rate Hz. your image will be clearer.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 12/12/12 03:02 AM.

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#3697361 - 12/12/12 03:21 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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thanks for all the responses. As I suspected, I will have to see it in action before deciding.


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#3697364 - 12/12/12 03:25 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: Parker]  
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Originally Posted By: Parker

Don't forget to save that old 22" CRT as a Cottage anchor for any storms/hurricanes that might head your way...
smile


75 lbs, 2 feet wide by almost 3 feet deep, it is a monster. Picture quality is excellent though which is why I held on to it.


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#3697406 - 12/12/12 05:54 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Originally Posted By: ArgonV
TVs now are 120hz, 240hz or 600hz.


that's the refresh Rate of the Video Signal Processor, not the actual response time of each individual color on the Px Diode.


For plasma TVs it's as quick as a CRT or tube TV...


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#3697595 - 12/12/12 03:24 PM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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PLasma has better constrast, plasma is also cheaper now, as the sales dropped like a brick when LCD and LED took over,

common misconception is Plasmas are prone to burn ins, and it's not the case anymore, they have phase shifting and all the crap to keep pixels from burning in.

We had the same TV at walmart on display for 3 years (some Sanyo Plasma), not one Burn in when we loaded test images off a memory stick to calibrate it before marking it down extremely to sell it off.


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#3697641 - 12/12/12 04:51 PM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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Yup I agree, the only downside to Plasma TVs these days is the glare and more heat than an LED LCD TV. But that's how ALL TVs used to be... Personally, I'll take the better contrast and response over glare worries anytime... Which is why I own a 50" Panasonic plasma TV. I get comments all the time about how awesome it looks and it's two years old. biggrin


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#3697678 - 12/12/12 05:56 PM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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my Sony Wega is like 8 years old, and it look Superb :p


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#3697683 - 12/12/12 06:14 PM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: SkateZilla]  
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22" CRT monitor? Is that one of those renowned Diamondtron NF monitors I've heard about? (It's certainly no FD Trinitron; the best of those are usually only 21", or 24" in the case of the renowned GDM-FW900.)

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
VGA has it's Limitations in RefreshRate and Resolution,

Example, VGA Only Supports 1.6 and 1.7787 resolutions natively, which are:
Wide XGA (1366x768), WSXGA (1440x900), WSXGA (1680x1020), WUXFA (1920x1200), WQHD (2660x1440), WQXGA (2560x1600)

That's not how VGA works. VGA, or to be more accurate, analog RGBHV, does not have any native resolutions at all. Any resolution limitations with such an analog interface have more to do with the RAMDACs in the graphics card and the monitor's own scan limits.

If you're using an LCD, then yes, it makes more sense to use a digital interface like DVI or DisplayPort or HDMI since they better match the display technology itself. But you'd be surprised when you see what a CRT with quality VGA or BNC cables can put out...

Now, as for the "TV vs. monitor" question, HDTV-marketed displays tend to be more expensive, limited to 1080p, and have all sorts of extra processing that ratchets up the input lag; a dreadful combination, if you ask me. (Even worse are the displays that claim to have 120 Hz or higher refresh rates, but only accept 60 Hz video signals. Why bother if they're going to handicap it like that?)

Thus, monitors are always a safer bet. The only drawback is that it's difficult to get a proper PC monitor larger than 30", but at least those 30" monitors have a 2560x1600 resolution.

#3697692 - 12/12/12 06:28 PM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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depends on if the TV accepts VGA Standard or RBGHV


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#3698038 - 12/13/12 05:34 AM Re: LCD monitor vs LCD TV? [Re: 2Lt_Joch]  
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The VGA interface, as we usually call it, is really just RGBHV (and some extra data pins for EDID and whatnot) transmitted through a DE-15 connector, though it's sometimes transmitted through BNC or other physical means. (You probably won't see BNC used on things other than professional monitors, however.)

You'll notice that SCART/Japanese RGB connectors carry similar analog RGB signals, though the sync lines are usually stripped from the composite video signal. (Or spliced into the green signal, as Sony often likes to do.) Since you mostly found SCART on TVs, though, it was generally used to carry a 240p or 480i video signal with a 15 KHz horizontal sync. That's too low for most VGA monitors that require 31 KHz horizontal sync minimum, but there are a few (mostly old Sony PVMs and NEC MultiSync presentation monitors) that can sync that low and still handle VGA resolutions. Those tend to be popular among retrogamers with RGB-modded consoles and arcade PCBs for that very reason.

The physical connections may be different, but the electrical signal is all the same, and it's a matter of whether or not the display can sync to the signal. Thus, it's not a matter of "does the TV accept VGA or RGBHV?", since that's more or less asking if they support the same basic thing, but "what RGBHV signal formats can the TV accept?"

VESA may have defined a few standard modelines that VGA monitors (or, rather, monitors with analog RGBHV input) need to support, and we usually associate these with the VGA interface spec itself, but really, you could throw anything at the display in that RGBHV signal format so long as it doesn't exceed the display's minimum or maximum horizontal or vertical sync rates. That's why I can run my FW900 in all sorts of crazy resolutions nobody's heard of, like 2304x1440 at 80 Hz.


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