Scheesh!

For those with FC3, try level flight and shallow turns (15° bank) at 150 knots (280 kph), as that's about as fast as the Ka-50's going to get and still maneuver in formation whilst keeping its rotor blades attached.

From my very limited experience, 150 knots (280 kph) is easily doable with the F-15C, MiG-29, and Su-27/33, but the Su-25 and Su-25T are so close to stall speed that it takes an extra-special careful hand to fly around at that speed. Flaps help and should even reduce the pitch angle a bit. The A-10s and P-51D can do 150 knots (170 mph) easy. Unloading the aircraft helps, too, although for the formation flight, we'll probably need to start off with full fuel, so best to practice with that anyways.

Okay I'll bite.

Lets keep the subject titles as is boys lol

280 is usually about my approach speed in a Fulcrum or Flanker. However, they're easily controllable there- we'll just be showing some crazy alpha. I'll practice that tonight when I get home though.

More or less official- I think it's the tankers specifically that are cratering the connections for people and causing the crashes. Still following the crash thread over at ED. People are ripping tankers out of the missions and THEN having no connection issues. Interesting, but kind of a drag. If nothing else I like to run the training grounds with tankers to give guys who are comfortable with weapons delivery a chance to train on something more dynamic.

Skate- does your controller not have a split throttle? I imagine if it did you'd have already thought to disconnect them instead of creating throttle curves. Learned that trick from someone awhile ago and can't for the life of me remember his name! .... rrrrrrr. Hope to edit in when it comes to me.

Another tip this same gentleman passed on was to raise flaps when you land to improve braking performance. The logic is VERY sound- but I'm not 100% sure if it's working. The brakes seem REALLY weak no matter what you do- but if I touch down around 130, full brakes, raise flaps... more often than not I'm able to be down below 60 WELL before the final turnout and can coast offline.

XRAY! Great to see you were able to get back into the action. Sorry I missed you- I'm going to be offline for awhile (still in forums obviously) as I'm going onto night shift at work. I'll be back flying next wednesday night.

Flayed... if you're out there give us a shout out in here! Had a great time with you last night- as I mentioned before great work on the landing!

Also saw another guy in there- Red Crown? Drop us a line in here if you're browsing.

A few new regulars I've seen in there- Blooze... don't be afraid to speak up in TS3... we'll help you out as much as we can. Possible exceptions are if we're currently working over something... sometimes we're tied up but more often than not we're just orbiting somewhere and trying to find targets- scanning with the TGP. I've never seen ANYONE in our server get snooty with someone who needs some help- in fact... I simply won't accept it and it goes against the server's unwritten rules (that don't need to be enforced because guys all just love the sim and to help out others).

Skip... you too! Get in there... come in and fly with us. Bring your dumb bombs and rockets (though I maintain that those are harder to deploy than the smart stuff!). When you need cover to do your thing, let us know! If we're in position we WILL help you. Need a little help? ASK- no drama, no worries man... again- if we can help you we will... if we can't we'll tell you to wait a bit. You were in there turning and churning with Crew and I... great cooperation... great communication- don't worry about being rusty... we're ALL learning the sim to its full potential.

Anyway- just checked on the server (from the airport) and tempus is in Nuke Plant with his 50 and could probably use some help... so if anyone has a chance to go in and finish it off with him... "Do EHT!"

^^^ What's this about?

When I land the A-10C I'll put the flaps all the way down, brake as needed before touchdown but close the air brakes before touchdown. Then, when I have weight on wheels I will open the brakes fully. I'd heard that brakes will open about 80% in the air but will go to full 100% open on the ground with weight on wheels.


It was Beach who suggested that for tanking just use one of the throttles for fine speed adjustments.

WC

Are we talking Air? or Wheel brakes?

i have Air Brakes open, flaps at max, touch down main gear, then nose, then open the brakes from the Max 80% in air to 100% when weight is on tires. then 75% Wheel Brakes on both tires using brakes to correct nose direction until I able to activate nose wheel steering.

Leave flaps down, allows you to approach slower, and induces drag.

Well yeah - full flaps on approach. To clarify- once you've touched down and applied full brakes THEN retract your flaps. Puts more weight on your wheels and should in theory improve braking. Flaps are intended to generate lift- and as a result could do so (and should) while you're braking. Wheel brakes are poor in the sim so every little trick helps. I found this helped but may just be placebo.

Try it!

the weight would be on your wheels regardless.

unless your implying the lift from the flaps is lifting the plane and making it "lighter".

Which makes sense.

This little myth is raising its head again, eh?

Somebody, somewhere, looked at a force diagram and figured out that since flaps ADD lift, they must TAKE AWAY weight on the wheels, and that since MORE weight on wheels means FASTER brakingtherefore RAISING the flaps must therefore DECREASES stopping distance! Yay, science!

This conclusion is incorrect.

More weight on the wheels means that the wheels can handle more friction before they start skidding, not that they suddenly start producing more braking power. I guess it's possible that if a pilot stomps on the brakes hard enough that they JUST start skidding the wheels, they could get some benefit by putting more weight on the aircraft, but I'm skeptical the change in lift is significant once the aircraft has touched down and is braking.

Also, raising the flaps REDUCES drag, which INCREASES stopping distance. The numbers will be different for every aircraft and every configuration, but I find it hard to believe that 1) the tiny amount of additional stopping power gained by reducing lift makes a significant difference to stopping power and 2) the total stopping distance lost by the additional stopping power is more than is gained by raising the flaps.

I'd love to see the numbers, but the concepts don't add up.

Hey... I didn't design the game with "wet" field conditions in mind- but the concept of raising flaps seems to work. I can't imagine for one second that the hog brakes would be so incredibly useless- but they certainly ARE in the sim. So while the practicalities of reality may conflict with the logic exercised in this tactic (raising flaps after landing and full brakes applied)- the way it works in the sim itself may be worth further exploration.

Anyway Einstein- I have my own doubts but frankly I went from skidding off the runway just about 100% of the time to being able to ease onto the turnoff just about every time. Maybe I'm just getting better at landing- entirely possible. Regardless- it's "thinking outside the box" type tactics that help people put tools in the toolbox. Turning off anti-skid, and using the handbrake also contribute to this.

So while in many respects (and things I acknowledge)- in theory below a certain speed the flaps should ADD to resistance and improve braking... This works for me. In fact, adding a little air brake on my tanking seems to help dampen my throttle response... Just ever so slight application of brakes. So between splitting the throttle and using one engine only to help with those minute corrections- tossing in a little airbrake seems to help fine tune even further. Again... if we want to get into the physics of it- that concept may not hold water... but hey- it works for me and it's something you might want to try (until Beans cuts the tanker off and forces it to collide with you. Then you need HEAVY application of brakes and a sharp wit! (unfortunately I was lacking in both.)

Guys- these different suggestions aren't "DIY" instructions... but certainly things to try out in whatever your given situation is. If you're running long on all your landings- try raisings flaps after you've touched down, engage nosewheel steering a bit early and start applying braking... don't maintain constant pressure... just apply them evenly, pull back, then reapply. Consider throwing off the anti skid... at least try it... maybe it'll work... maybe not. Use the handbrake... maybe that helps?

We have to work within the limits of the sim- not of reality. If push comes to shove pop off the ground safety and use your cannon as a speedbrake. (uh oh... flame suit on.)

Do what you need to do to get repaired and back in the action. We are, in fact, handcuffed to the sim... not reality.

I'll only make this comment:

If you want to fly in a team, and take off and land together, no DIY instructions. Just do it right, because the guy who does it wrong or just different messes everyone else up.

Issue I take Gray is the fact that we need to "do so" within the limits of the sim and its own little nuances.

Standing order on the firehouse is to do what you need to do to ensure that you are able to "fly as a team"... if you're doubtful about your ability to land or take off... then make sure you say so. If someone wants to take off separately, then let them... Frankly I have no problem taking off with people who are brand new to the concept... others aren't so comfortable but many are. Get on TS3 and communicate.

We leave the server open but I HIGHLY recommend that people on the server join up and get TS3 in motion.

I've found that not lowering the wheels helps decrease my landing length.






OK - I got what everyone is saying. I say - if you want to stop shorter then reduce your speed before touchdown.


Skate, others - do you think the Air Brakes will automatically extend to their 100% position from the 80% once there is weight on wheels?

Do all three wheels need to have weight on them, or just the rears?

WC

I've always felt that the brakes needed an extra pull once weight is on wheels to get them to 100% extension - and there's no harm in pulling the switch to make sure, even if you think they do extend automatically

Increased Ground friction and decreased air friction

I would love to see the data that makes you think so. Even if there was some measurable effect in real life, I have a really hard time believing it's modeled in DCS.

Then you're really doing something wrong! When I land at the right airspeeds I don't even need to touch the wheel brakes until I'm at 60 knots or so - if you need to stomp on the brakes just to stop before the end of the runway you're either landing on too short of a field or landing too fast. Airspeed plays a huge factor in landing rollout - are you making your approaches with the AoA indexer in the center? That'll put you at 110-130 knots, depending on your loadout, and you'll lose even more speed in the flare.

I call BS on the flaps helping shorten landing distances until I see proof: video from the cockpit with rctrl-Enter and also showing the airspeed at touchdown in both cases would go a long ways, but so far I'm not buying it.


Ugh. Thinking out of the box" - I hate that phrase. It's poor rationalization for bad conclusions. For example, there is no handbrake on the A-10, so there is absolutely no way it could help stopping distance, but you've somehow convinced yourself that some lever you pull in the aircraft is helping stopping distance. That is "out of the box" thinking, but it's also wrong.

Land at the right airspeed on the right size runway and you won't run off the end.

Anyone thats ever flown on a commercial aircraft in the window seat mid fuselage knows they keep the flaps down during braking

I have deliberately fishtailed along the runway before with NWS on when my approach has been too fast. It worked. And yes I know this is incorrect, but it saved me from running off the end and blowing up lol.

Allizdog