Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 14 1 2 3 13 14
#3690996 - 11/30/12 09:20 PM Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang  
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 22,095
citizen guod Offline
Lifer
citizen guod  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 22,095
Fred "HeinKill" Williams reviews DCS: P-51D Mustang.

http://SimHQ.com/_air15/air_550a.html


Wisdom is knowing what's enough
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3690997 - 11/30/12 09:28 PM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Nate Offline
Member
Nate  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Dublin, Ireland
Reviewed in Arcade mode? Really?

Nate

#3691018 - 11/30/12 10:15 PM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
HeinKill Offline
Senior Member
HeinKill  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
Cloud based
Fair question, but no. Flown and reviewed in both, though combat gameplay pix largely from arcade mode because this was the most interesting thing that happened during the testing... Getting a wing blown off and still being able to maneouvre and land while on fire with only one wing! But I do note the experience was different in sim mode, where that didn't happen to me.

EG "In "simulation" mode I didn’t experience similar bugs, but I was simply unable to compete against the AI on what I believe was a believable and even footed basis. Perhaps it was just my poor piloting skills, but I was unable to find any control settings which meant I could comfortably fly the Mustang to the edge of its envelope without it flick rolling. This was made harder by there being no feedback indicating the machine is on the edge of a stall (though it is believed stall buffeting will be included in a future patch). The AI however seems to suffer none of these limitations and I never once saw it spin, flick roll or stall."

I qualify my observations on the AI FM in sim mode by saying it could also be my lack of piloting skills... And of course this isn't an issue if you just want to fly P51 vs other P51s online.

Cheers,

H



[Linked Image]
#3691087 - 12/01/12 12:42 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 60
KaspeR Offline
Junior Member
KaspeR  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 60
Great review, and thank you for comparing it to A2A's P-51D. I absolutely love their version, especially the start-up. The plane feels alive, and from what I've seen and heard of DCS's, it just doesn't. I have been on the fence about getting DCS's version, but the lack of terrain to fly it around in also bugs me. Maybe if/when they ever release Nevada or some other terrain, I'd consider DCS: P-51d.

#3691117 - 12/01/12 02:24 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 212
Antares Offline
Member
Antares  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 212
99 Decision St
Quote:
While the Spitfire may be the machine I would go home to each night, the P-51D is the babe I would prefer to party with.


OK, with that you've brought me over to the dark side. "Paunch" and all.

biggrin

R



Quote:
So the Thunderhawk would come screaming out of the sky at mach ohmygod! and as soon as the struts hit the ground they would rip off.


Quote:
You're trying to apply scientific principles to 40k. Do you not see the problem with that?
#3691123 - 12/01/12 02:37 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 263
RodBorza Offline
Member
RodBorza  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 263
Brazil
Hello Guod,

Thank Fred for his great review.

It is the first time I saw someone write the same things I feel when playing this sim.
In the Eagle Dynamics (ED) forums everybody seems so passionate, so eager to play this sim, that they defend it with all their heart.

Don't get me wrong, though. I love ED. I love their rendition of the A-10 and the Su-27. I bought the P-51 out of consideration for a small publisher. My idea was to support them to keep going.

I know this product is still a beta. But there are a lot of bugs that need to be worked. The flight model really annoys me. I cannot make a small pull of the joystick and then the aircraft stalls. And enter a roll and spins. Something I don't get with the A-10 and the Su-27. I showed it to ED on one of their forums, and the answer I got was that my controls were too sensitive. So, i fiddled around with my joystick settings, and still got the same behavior. It is REALLY frustrating.

Another thing that Fred noted is regarding the enemy AI. It is really very hard to beat it. You fell like you don't have the slightest chance. Also, another problem I found was to to detect the enemy aircraft. You can't see the from a distance. In other sims, like Combat Flight Simulator you could see the enemy a few miles out. But in this sim, you can't. Very difficult.

For all of this, I stopped flying it and tossed it aside.

Anyway, it was my two cents. If you ever thought about getting the P-51D from ED, I really recommend following Fred's notes. They don't stray from the reality.




Last edited by RodBorza; 12/01/12 02:37 AM.

Sim Evolution: Microproses's F-15 Strike Eagle II, F-15 Strike Eagle III, Jane's F-15, Jane's F-18, Jane's Longbow 1 & 2, Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator 3, Falcon: AF, DCS A-10 and Flight Simulator X!

My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RodBorza



#3691127 - 12/01/12 02:49 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,674
EinsteinEP Offline
Just a Noob
EinsteinEP  Offline
Just a Noob
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,674
Tucson, AZ
Fair review, Fred. I've never dabbled with any FSX addons, such as the A2A P-51D, but I enjoy flying the DCS P-51D, even with the flaws you noted. I also feel like the aero model is still a bit off, especially the slipstream effect on the rudder, but it's still fun to fly. The complaint about the lack of a compelling environment for the P-51D is fair and pretty common, but it seems like nobody is even trying to make one using the pretty powerful Mission Editor in DCS. As you pointed out, recreating a WWII environment isn't going to happen with the current tools, but a mission of P-51Ds making a hit and run attack against convoys could be made pretty exciting.

I hope to see ED continue to advance this module with their other offerings.

Who's working the 109E and F modules? wink


Shoot to Kill.
Play to Have Fun.
#3691265 - 12/01/12 03:25 PM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 615
RoFfan Offline
Member
RoFfan  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 615
Actually, the P-38 was the first Allied fighter over Berlin, and the P-47 took down the Luftwaffe in France before the P-51 did much at all.

#3691269 - 12/01/12 03:31 PM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 825
msalama Offline
Member
msalama  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 825
OK, the DCS Mustang FM might be a bit off, but how about A2A's then? The last time I checked MSFS couldn't f.ex. model spins at all. Has this been rectified?

#3691306 - 12/01/12 05:01 PM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,581
Sim Offline
Hotshot
Sim  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,581
I felt this review was an advertizement for another product with reviewer made his mind before ever opening (starting) the product. First of all - why not latest build? Why no mention of FM? What about ground handling? What about engine abuse damage? Startup procedures? High / Low alt performance of engine? Blower function? Anything about actual simulation of this aircraft? No mention at all of "Auto rudder" function of GUI? I could continue...


Reviewing it in "arcade" mode is an insult to flight simulator community! Thanks for trying, but fail in execution. IMHO of course.

#3691318 - 12/01/12 05:40 PM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,229
I_Flyby Offline
Member
I_Flyby  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,229
Ohio, USA
I still don't get the purpose for DCS creating a Mustang to fly in DCS world. Might as well fly the A2A version in a more visually interesting world. No need for an old plane in a modern combat arena, much loved as the Mustang is. Better to get on with a modern strike aircraft and maybe some new maps. DCS will limit itself into obscurity if it doesn't expand in the modern combat arena. Or unless it comes out with a 50s Korea sim or even a WW2 sim. Or any other combat sim as long as the planes are relevant to the era, and not limited to Georgia/Russia. No more WW2 props dancing with modern-era combatants, please. It just ain't happening (for me anyway).
flame suit on,
Flyby out


The warrior creed: Crap happens to the other guy!
#3691427 - 12/01/12 10:30 PM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 825
msalama Offline
Member
msalama  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 825
Quote:
or even a WW2 sim.


Which, actually, could even happen. Just mind that these guys like to do study simulations, so anything following the Mustang will probably take awhile too. But if this really happens the results will definitely be worth the wait as well, I'm sure smile

#3691453 - 12/01/12 11:15 PM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: EinsteinEP]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Chris2525 Offline
Member
Chris2525  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Canada
Originally Posted By: EinsteinEP
Who's working the 109E and F modules?


Ok, so, i'm not the only one who noticed that in the youtube video.


Windows 7 Home Premium x64 / Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.9GHz / 8192MB DDR3 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / TM Warthog / Saitek Pro Fight Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5
#3691460 - 12/01/12 11:33 PM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 858
sharpe26 Offline
Member
sharpe26  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 858
Maastricht, Holland
let's just say that there have been more pictures then that one.


I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.
#3691554 - 12/02/12 04:23 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3
Kuky Offline
Junior Member
Kuky  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3
Sydney, Australia
I don't think this was fair review also, first you don't show only GAME mode in high fidelity of an aircraft (in every way... even combat... which in case some forget, FSX doesn't have), second, the writer states Acusim P-51D has everything modeled and what... DCS doesn't? Where in reality I repeat again, there is no combat in FSX... and complaining the setting in DCS World is not good for P-51D, ok fair enough for at the moment status because if someone comes up with another WWII aircraft or ground units etc, this is no longer the case while, again in FSX you can have as much aircraft you want you can't do combat.

So no combat missions or campaigns in FSX, no working weapons in FSX, no WWII setups in FSX... what else am I missing from the list, then to say DSC P-51D is worse is just lame because there IS combat in DCS, and give it little time this is very likely 3rd party developers will come up with oponents... then you will have WWII setting in DCS, you will have combat, while in FSX you won't... and that being more expensive route... how can one have the nerve to it better?

I'm out

#3691577 - 12/02/12 06:31 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch Offline
Hotshot
Pooch  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
Someone is working on a BF109E and F? More strange choices for airplanes. If they are intended as adversaries for the Mustang, then they are the wrong models. Both had been replaced by the G (Gustav) by the time that D model P-51's were rampaging over Europe.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#3691584 - 12/02/12 07:25 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 79
Chaos Offline
Junior Member
Chaos  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 79
As a long time member of SimHQ I must say I've never read such a bad 'review' before. This is an ad for A2A if anything...

Whether one believes product A is better than product B is irrelevant in a review. One must rate the reviewed product on it own merits and faults WITHOUT bias. On top of that; to toot A2A's horn about features that are also present in DCS' offering is lying to a potential customer. If one is to do a comparison, do it on equal footing and not with one product in GAME mode. That's fighting with one's hands tied behind your back. No in-depth 'review' about a flight-model in this flight-simulation? WTF?

This 'review' is so wrong on so many levels, it's not even funny.


"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage..."
#3691589 - 12/02/12 08:27 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
HeinKill Offline
Senior Member
HeinKill  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
Cloud based
It's very true I haven't done an in depth review of flight dynamics and modelling, runthrough of startup procedures and performance comparisons vs real world data etc and perhaps someone would like to do that. Anyone here is very welcome.

That wasn't my intent, my intent was to review the package as a whole and let people know what they are getting for their money.

The reason I approached the review from this angle was because I read a lot of disappointment on several sim sites from people who thought they were buying a standard DCS combat sim, but instead got something different. Hopefully by reading this review people will buy with their eyes open. My intended audience was people who haven't bought the sim yet, not those who already have it.

And my conclusion is quite simple...if you want a fully realised P-51 combat sim game, don't buy this product. But...

If you want a P-51 flight simulator similiar to what you can find for FSX, this is a good value package.

I'd rather discuss that conclusion and whether it is valid, rather than all the things the review didn't cover, because it is perfectly correct, I didn't review those elements in depth.

Cheers,

Fred


[Linked Image]
#3691608 - 12/02/12 10:49 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: HeinKill]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 517
159th_Viper Offline
Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
159th_Viper  Offline
Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 517
Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: HeinKill
.....Hopefully by reading this review people will buy with their eyes open. My intended audience was people who haven't bought the sim yet, not those who already have it....


And with that 'review' you have done them a grave injustice. Your ignorance of the facts are staggering if you keep in mind that it has been categorically stated from the very beginning, everywhere, that the P-51D is a simulation of the aircraft in a DCS combat environment and NOT a P-51D WWII Combat Simulator. Man, it's akin to the original dead-horse.It has been shouted from the roof-tops: The F.A.Q. has it stated in bold and all the reasons therefore. If one buys the SIM expecting anything less then there is truly no excuse. It's like going to the corner-local and buying decaf and then kicking up a righteous fuss when you realise there's no caffeine-rush. Did you not read the label? Cm'on, pull the other leg......To now base a substantial portion of a review on an already-established fact whilst ignoring the most pertinent aspects of the SIM, ie it's Flight Dynamic and systems-modelling as it relates to combat is, to say the least, woefully poor.


Originally Posted By: HeinKill
.....my intent was to review the package as a whole ....


Reviewing the package as a whole? Stop it, you're pulling my leg again.......See above: Had you researched what the package is about, you would have realized that it is not a WWII combat SIM, no matter how hard some want it to be. Why is this so hard to figure?

In any event, each to their own I suppose. Just one more thing: How can you utter in one breath

Quote:
.....full simulation of the Mustang almost as good as anything you will find for Microsoft FSX.....

whilst admitting that you did not bother to review it adequately?
Quote:
....I haven't done an in depth review of flight dynamics and modelling....


How can you expect objective, first-time readers to make an informed decision based on such apparent, in-your-face bias? At stages it read as an advert for FSX and related add-ons when I thought I was reading a DCS review.

I'm normally not one to pay much attention to reviews and such but hell, this one, with the due amount of respect in the circumstances, really, really needs some work if it was objectivity you were after. If it was to aid prospective members to the genre in making an informed decision by having regard to ALL the facts then you have failed miserably and it is those prospective members who are the worse off for it.

That right there is the great pity.


Airframe #36
159th Guards Aviation Regiment
"Airspeed, Altitude, or Brains; you always need at least two."
#3691619 - 12/02/12 11:40 AM Re: Review: DCS: P-51D Mustang [Re: HeinKill]  
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 79
Chaos Offline
Junior Member
Chaos  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 79
Originally Posted By: HeinKill
The reason I approached the review from this angle was because I read a lot of disappointment on several sim sites from people who thought they were buying a standard DCS combat sim, but instead got something different.


To put it bluntly... that is a problem with the user, not the product. It has been stated numerous times, on ED's forums and elsewhere, what was included in the package. As I remember there was a lively discussion about the complete lack of period equipment / scenery before the product even entered Beta. At the end of the day ED is a company trying to sell its goods. It is up to the user to make a well informed decision about his/her purchase. ED hasn't exactly been secretive about some of it's product short-comings (and there are some, for sure).

Quote:
Hopefully by reading this review people will buy with their eyes open.


No need to spoon feed. The average user is not dumb and I find it quite patronising to be honest.

Quote:

And my conclusion is quite simple...if you want a fully realised P-51 combat sim game, don't buy this product. But...
If you want a P-51 flight simulator similiar to what you can find for FSX, this is a good value package.
I'd rather discuss that conclusion and whether it is valid, rather than all the things the review didn't cover, because it is perfectly correct, I didn't review those elements in depth.


Going back to my original point... this is NOT a review but a comparison at best (and a poor one at that, considering all the things you left out). What you're saying can be summed up in one sentence instead of rambling on and on about it for 4 pages (of which page 2 is almost completely devoted to A2A's product, excuse me?).

You're intelligent enough to know that, when people hear "good value", it means cheap and good enough. It is not up to you to make that conclusion.SimHQ shouldn't have marked it a review as such. At least I could've appreciated it for what it was... A personal opinion on ED's P-51.

And besides nitpicking over words, I find your conclusion to be false, for the most part. I'll mention a few things...
Quote:
It is impossible to spend time in this sim without thinking (or hoping) it is just a "test balloon" for future DCS WWII offerings.

ED has been clear from the get-go. This project was born as a tech-demo and evolved in something that they thought was marketable. Whether this will evolve into a full fledged WW2 simulator remains to be seen but there are efforts underway, from 3rd parties, to include other period-equipment (status unknown). Also, the Fighter Collection, is on record saying they are interested in tackling other periods besides modern jet-age. So, yes, this is a test-balloon and they have been quite open about it.

Quote:

If you are looking for a P-51D combat simulator though, it will just frustrate you – unless you always wondered whether one of WWII's legendary warbirds can survive on a modern battlefield, with you at the controls.

This is a red herring, right? DCS P51 does not frustrate me except for the fact that I don't own rudder pedals (which this sim desperately needs). I appreciate it for what it is. An accurate rendition, system wise, of a P51 with the abillity to blow stuff up. Flight model that is un-equalled or the most part. So, yes, I have issues with you conclusions as well.

I do appreciate you coming on here and discuss this with fellow-readers. I certainly respect that.

Regards.


Last edited by Chaos; 12/02/12 12:43 PM.

"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage..."
Page 1 of 14 1 2 3 13 14

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0